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	<title>Comments on: Infidelity Quickie #5: How Could She Do This?</title>
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	<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/</link>
	<description>to Survive and Cope with Infidelity and Extramarital Affairs</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ranch</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-27929</link>
		<dc:creator>Ranch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My partner began a friendship with the woman who had fired me. Initially my partner was so furious at the way I was terminated and reassured me that the woman was incompetent and there would never be any reason to spend time with the woman. (We all worked together). Two months later I found out the my partner had ordered books for the woman.  Two months after that I found flirtatious emails between the two.  One night my partner came home from work four hours late.  My partner said after a meeting they had gone to a local restaurant for a drink and the woman was not with them.  I confronted my partner with the emails, who responded with my betrayal of reading personal emails.  My partner tried to tell me that I didn't understand what I was reading and that it must be a mistake. I showed my partner the emails and the my partner finally admitted that they had been friendly and had developed a friendship and they "just worked together."  This began a ritual Friday night out with the woman not coming home until two a.m and Sundays at a bar watching football with this woman.  My partner for the eights years of our relationship, hated watching football in a bar as there was too much noise.  These Sunday parties would last until two a.m.  I asked my partner to leave the house after the third week of this behavior.  My partner left two days before my birthday and didn't acknowledge my birthday at all.  I accused my partner of having an affair with this woman and my partner continued to say, "we work together."  In one month alone my partner had 1500 minutes of conversations with this woman, talking to her every night before bed for sometimes over two hours.  Every week my partner would write me on Monday or Tuesday telling how much I was missed and how lonely my partner was, but by Thursday, my partner would tell me that there was a work issue and would be home late on Friday, thus couldn't spend time with me, which was typically a lie, but just a way not to be accountable.  After two months of this roller coaster, my partner showed up on my door on a Friday night begging for my forgiveness and wanting to come home.  My partner told me the “friendship” was over and had been articulated to the woman.  I heard everything I needed to hear to begin forgiving.  I let my partner move back in, and we went to one counseling session.  On The following Wed., my partner said it was over. One week before Christmas. Not even one week.  Nothing had changed was the allegation this time. Apparently, my behavior was the justification for the friendship with this woman. As I write this, my partner still has not come home from meeting the woman again yesterday at 1 p.m.  I have packed all the clothing and personal items, my partner moved back in and they sit on the porch.  I changed the locks.  I feel absolutely worthless, lost and the biggest fool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My partner began a friendship with the woman who had fired me. Initially my partner was so furious at the way I was terminated and reassured me that the woman was incompetent and there would never be any reason to spend time with the woman. (We all worked together). Two months later I found out the my partner had ordered books for the woman.  Two months after that I found flirtatious emails between the two.  One night my partner came home from work four hours late.  My partner said after a meeting they had gone to a local restaurant for a drink and the woman was not with them.  I confronted my partner with the emails, who responded with my betrayal of reading personal emails.  My partner tried to tell me that I didn&#8217;t understand what I was reading and that it must be a mistake. I showed my partner the emails and the my partner finally admitted that they had been friendly and had developed a friendship and they &#8220;just worked together.&#8221;  This began a ritual Friday night out with the woman not coming home until two a.m and Sundays at a bar watching football with this woman.  My partner for the eights years of our relationship, hated watching football in a bar as there was too much noise.  These Sunday parties would last until two a.m.  I asked my partner to leave the house after the third week of this behavior.  My partner left two days before my birthday and didn&#8217;t acknowledge my birthday at all.  I accused my partner of having an affair with this woman and my partner continued to say, &#8220;we work together.&#8221;  In one month alone my partner had 1500 minutes of conversations with this woman, talking to her every night before bed for sometimes over two hours.  Every week my partner would write me on Monday or Tuesday telling how much I was missed and how lonely my partner was, but by Thursday, my partner would tell me that there was a work issue and would be home late on Friday, thus couldn&#8217;t spend time with me, which was typically a lie, but just a way not to be accountable.  After two months of this roller coaster, my partner showed up on my door on a Friday night begging for my forgiveness and wanting to come home.  My partner told me the “friendship” was over and had been articulated to the woman.  I heard everything I needed to hear to begin forgiving.  I let my partner move back in, and we went to one counseling session.  On The following Wed., my partner said it was over. One week before Christmas. Not even one week.  Nothing had changed was the allegation this time. Apparently, my behavior was the justification for the friendship with this woman. As I write this, my partner still has not come home from meeting the woman again yesterday at 1 p.m.  I have packed all the clothing and personal items, my partner moved back in and they sit on the porch.  I changed the locks.  I feel absolutely worthless, lost and the biggest fool.</p>
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		<title>By: jan</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-25533</link>
		<dc:creator>jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I too am just going trough this with my husband. He has been cheating with people on line and then meeting them at bars. When he was on one of those sites I set my own profile and asked to meet him, he did all the setting up and plans, and did meet me. Even when he was caught by me he kept making excuses and lying. Now he wants me to beleive and trust him. I just can't seem to do that. And with what I am reading seems I'm right not to trust him because he just makes excuses to save himself.  I am at my wits end and don't know what to do. He asked for one last chance and I have been thinking about it and since then I have seen more evidence of on line dating services and ads and he is telling me he didn't do it it and why would he be so stupid to do it.  Hard for me to beleive him when the last time he did it he accused someone else of doing it and setting him up and it was him all the time.  Is it like they say once a liar and a cheater always a liar and cheater?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too am just going trough this with my husband. He has been cheating with people on line and then meeting them at bars. When he was on one of those sites I set my own profile and asked to meet him, he did all the setting up and plans, and did meet me. Even when he was caught by me he kept making excuses and lying. Now he wants me to beleive and trust him. I just can&#8217;t seem to do that. And with what I am reading seems I&#8217;m right not to trust him because he just makes excuses to save himself.  I am at my wits end and don&#8217;t know what to do. He asked for one last chance and I have been thinking about it and since then I have seen more evidence of on line dating services and ads and he is telling me he didn&#8217;t do it it and why would he be so stupid to do it.  Hard for me to beleive him when the last time he did it he accused someone else of doing it and setting him up and it was him all the time.  Is it like they say once a liar and a cheater always a liar and cheater?</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-14114</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-14114</guid>
		<description>I found out about the affair about a year ago. At that time the affair was going on for about a year. What ever people may think, an affair is ugly. But my question to this very day remains:-
How could she do this?
Background:
We were dating for a year when we decided to move in together. A few months after that her parents moved in with us due to them losing everything. The rest of her family were bluntly refused to look after her parents because they were either not willing, not financialy strong and all other excuses.
Her father molested her two sisters. I had a daughter from a previous marriage, living with me, yet decided that I will take the chance to look after the chap.

She fell pregnant about a year after getting married and we had our baby. It was after my baby was born, not three months after that she started at a new job and off course, met the bloke,and had a roaring time whilst I had to look after the baby, her parents and all.

I couldnt believe what happened. Begged her to stay, threatened and through my toys.

Now, a year later I am feeling empty. I want out but she is pregnant with our second.

I am forever searching to find answers and feel as though a piece of me died.

How could she do this to me?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found out about the affair about a year ago. At that time the affair was going on for about a year. What ever people may think, an affair is ugly. But my question to this very day remains:-<br />
How could she do this?<br />
Background:<br />
We were dating for a year when we decided to move in together. A few months after that her parents moved in with us due to them losing everything. The rest of her family were bluntly refused to look after her parents because they were either not willing, not financialy strong and all other excuses.<br />
Her father molested her two sisters. I had a daughter from a previous marriage, living with me, yet decided that I will take the chance to look after the chap.</p>
<p>She fell pregnant about a year after getting married and we had our baby. It was after my baby was born, not three months after that she started at a new job and off course, met the bloke,and had a roaring time whilst I had to look after the baby, her parents and all.</p>
<p>I couldnt believe what happened. Begged her to stay, threatened and through my toys.</p>
<p>Now, a year later I am feeling empty. I want out but she is pregnant with our second.</p>
<p>I am forever searching to find answers and feel as though a piece of me died.</p>
<p>How could she do this to me?</p>
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		<title>By: muskieguy</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-11872</link>
		<dc:creator>muskieguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 13:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-11872</guid>
		<description>Once I realised that my wife had strayed for the second time, I knew I couldn't trust her.  She lied about going to work when instead she was out socially, to avoid being at home with kids.  She betrayed me right then and there without adultery.  The adultery just pushed it over the edge.  That and her bringing us to the brink of bankruptcy.  Nope, once the trust is gone there is nothing.  I may feel hollow about all that, but I also have found inner strength and calmness.  A new purpose:  to protect the interests of the children and myself.  I may mourn for the girl I married but I have recognised there is no reconciliation here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once I realised that my wife had strayed for the second time, I knew I couldn&#8217;t trust her.  She lied about going to work when instead she was out socially, to avoid being at home with kids.  She betrayed me right then and there without adultery.  The adultery just pushed it over the edge.  That and her bringing us to the brink of bankruptcy.  Nope, once the trust is gone there is nothing.  I may feel hollow about all that, but I also have found inner strength and calmness.  A new purpose:  to protect the interests of the children and myself.  I may mourn for the girl I married but I have recognised there is no reconciliation here.</p>
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		<title>By: Shennie</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1138</link>
		<dc:creator>Shennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 05:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1138</guid>
		<description>I should add that that does not speak for all men , it does happen in the reverse as we have seen on these blogs, sorry guys didnt mean any offense there are enough of you in this situation also. Didnt mean to sound sexist, just speaking of it from a womans perspective is all, thought I should clarify that and acknowledge that it also happens for the guys too</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that that does not speak for all men , it does happen in the reverse as we have seen on these blogs, sorry guys didnt mean any offense there are enough of you in this situation also. Didnt mean to sound sexist, just speaking of it from a womans perspective is all, thought I should clarify that and acknowledge that it also happens for the guys too</p>
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		<title>By: Lioness</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1137</link>
		<dc:creator>Lioness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1137</guid>
		<description>Oh I think they always like the younger ones Shennie! And you're spot on: the less developed the personality the better. I was having a chat with my good friend here about supposedly more "enlightened" mens attitudes ~ creatives, brainboxes and the like. They claim to be different but I'm afraid they're not when it finally comes down to it. So back to the conversation; my friend was telling me about a male artist friend back home in Poland who was very bright and dating a female with a rich life and very effervescent personality. They were together for 4 years... He was apparently very in love with this girl and had said himself he would never go out with an airhead. Then one day my friend flew home to visit and guess what? He was married. He'd ditched the girl with a life and married one as dull as dishwater. Men may enjoy a bright womans company for a while but when it comes to marriage, if a woman has her own things going on it means she has less time to spend looking after them hmm? I don't know if they even have this thought consciously. Perhaps its just wired into them.

One last fantastic book to mention: M Scott Peck's "The Road Less Travelled". One interesting point he makes on this note begins by explaining how we project our own thoughts &#38; ideas onto our pets. And how we find a pet agreeable as long when it's will coincides with our own. He goes on to make a point about GI's falling in love with non-english speaking women during war time and bringing them home as brides. Ah, true love! ...but when the brides learnt English, the marriages began to fall apart. The men could no longer project their thoughts, feelings desires and goals onto the women and feel the same sense of closeness one feels with a pet. The men discovered they had ideas, opinions and aims different from their own. As this happened, love began to grow for some, but for most it ceased. That's verbatim by the way. 

I don't know if you've ever seen the film with Nicole Kidman where she plays a Russian girl who flies around the world scamming men? Her gang finds lonely bankers on the internet and when its all set up, she flies in. Once the men are in love, the other 2 gang members arrive and *kidnap* her; the banker then raids his works safe to free the object of his affection. Mission accomplished. She can speak perfect english but pretends to be unable to speak even one word of it. When she finally gets found out by the British man whom she's scamming during the film, he asks her why she lied about this. She tells him that she used to speak english on her heists until one day she experimented with pretending not to. She then discovered the men fall in love much faster ~ instead of weeks, they fall in just a few days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I think they always like the younger ones Shennie! And you&#8217;re spot on: the less developed the personality the better. I was having a chat with my good friend here about supposedly more &#8220;enlightened&#8221; mens attitudes ~ creatives, brainboxes and the like. They claim to be different but I&#8217;m afraid they&#8217;re not when it finally comes down to it. So back to the conversation; my friend was telling me about a male artist friend back home in Poland who was very bright and dating a female with a rich life and very effervescent personality. They were together for 4 years&#8230; He was apparently very in love with this girl and had said himself he would never go out with an airhead. Then one day my friend flew home to visit and guess what? He was married. He&#8217;d ditched the girl with a life and married one as dull as dishwater. Men may enjoy a bright womans company for a while but when it comes to marriage, if a woman has her own things going on it means she has less time to spend looking after them hmm? I don&#8217;t know if they even have this thought consciously. Perhaps its just wired into them.</p>
<p>One last fantastic book to mention: M Scott Peck&#8217;s &#8220;The Road Less Travelled&#8221;. One interesting point he makes on this note begins by explaining how we project our own thoughts &amp; ideas onto our pets. And how we find a pet agreeable as long when it&#8217;s will coincides with our own. He goes on to make a point about GI&#8217;s falling in love with non-english speaking women during war time and bringing them home as brides. Ah, true love! &#8230;but when the brides learnt English, the marriages began to fall apart. The men could no longer project their thoughts, feelings desires and goals onto the women and feel the same sense of closeness one feels with a pet. The men discovered they had ideas, opinions and aims different from their own. As this happened, love began to grow for some, but for most it ceased. That&#8217;s verbatim by the way. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve ever seen the film with Nicole Kidman where she plays a Russian girl who flies around the world scamming men? Her gang finds lonely bankers on the internet and when its all set up, she flies in. Once the men are in love, the other 2 gang members arrive and *kidnap* her; the banker then raids his works safe to free the object of his affection. Mission accomplished. She can speak perfect english but pretends to be unable to speak even one word of it. When she finally gets found out by the British man whom she&#8217;s scamming during the film, he asks her why she lied about this. She tells him that she used to speak english on her heists until one day she experimented with pretending not to. She then discovered the men fall in love much faster ~ instead of weeks, they fall in just a few days.</p>
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		<title>By: Shennie</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1126</link>
		<dc:creator>Shennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 05:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Lioness
So wonderfully said, and soooooooo true . I love your insight and you hit the nail on the head of alot of things and I totally agree with it. You are right the more we do the more we are taken advantage of and the less we are respected, Men dont have to do half of what we do to get the same respect. In fact they demand it, Hence I think thats where midlife actually hits. In my opinion mens and womens relationships come to that point where the woman finally starts to wise and come into her own and become her own person and i dont think most men can handle that and hence they begin what I will call midlife and often search for a younger party or a more immature or vulnerable one so they can start the process all over again. so sad but so true, I so enjoyed your insight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lioness<br />
So wonderfully said, and soooooooo true . I love your insight and you hit the nail on the head of alot of things and I totally agree with it. You are right the more we do the more we are taken advantage of and the less we are respected, Men dont have to do half of what we do to get the same respect. In fact they demand it, Hence I think thats where midlife actually hits. In my opinion mens and womens relationships come to that point where the woman finally starts to wise and come into her own and become her own person and i dont think most men can handle that and hence they begin what I will call midlife and often search for a younger party or a more immature or vulnerable one so they can start the process all over again. so sad but so true, I so enjoyed your insight.</p>
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		<title>By: Lioness</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1114</link>
		<dc:creator>Lioness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1114</guid>
		<description>Hiya Shennie :)

"its funny because sometimes having a h is not like really having a partner for the most part their just another responsibility instead."

...absolutely! and that's indeed the point I was making when I said it was ironic that single mothers had more time for themselves.

That's not rare unfortunately. It one of the many reasons men benefit so much from marriage and women lose out. It's covered in *Backlash*. Glad to hear you're going to read that. It's by Susan Faludi; Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. She wrote it in the eighties, so it's not a recent publication but the information inside is both timeless and priceless. You can pick it up for just a few cents via Amazon's used books! whoopee :)

Is it womens 'fault' they sacrifice everything for others? I think it's the way we're brought up to be and it's a self perpetuating cycle. Girls are taught to be 'good', to nurse dollies, to play with tea sets, to look pretty, to be mother's little helper ~ in fact to be 'good' means to be 'useful' where girls are concerned...it's all there being fed to us from the start, just as it was fed to our own mothers as children. Boys are always given more freedom to be themselves. Girls only get that freedom from an acutely aware parent who not only avoids 'mistraining' their child in such a way, but also prevents society from doing so ~ difficult &#38; rare indeed. 

So it seems it is up to us as individuals to break out of the mold as best we can later in life. To undo those years of training! Another fabulous book I can recommend in this respect is "Dorothy Rowe's Guide To Life" - she's great; a natural observer from childhood and very humourous to boot. I first read an except of the book in Virgin Atlantic's [unusually excellent] in-flight magazine and was struck by how sharp, observant, knowledgable and life-changing she was. I bought the book when the plane landed!

And if you're really geting into this, here's one more well worth a read: "A Woman In Your Own Right ~ Assertiveness and You" by Anne Dickenson. I inherited that book from my own mother :) It is a must for any woman who needs help being assertive, instead of aggressive/manipulative/doormattish ~ most women run through some [or all] of these behavioural cycles instead of just stating what they want in the first place/putting their foot down and saying *no* to something they dont want! Sad but true.

Finally, I'll make the point that I am not some rampant feminist. I don't believe women to be inherantly 'better' than men. I just think we have more to overcome and are less able to genuinely be ourselves due to generations of misguidance and the perceptions/expectations of our society as a whole. It's not a male 'plot'; we're all responsible for it. But on the other hand men certainly don't want us to change things that are of benefit to them. These books help you do a number of things; 1. identify how your up-bringing and society have shaped [and continue to shape] your view of yourself. 2. understand the rules of the game of life as woman. 3. redress the balance to take back control and actually be a genuinely happier and more free person. Many times I've read about women who are completely lost when the children fly from the nest and the husband ditches her for a 'younger model'. Do we really have to wait til that happens to reclaim our lives? 

Finally, know that when you start being more observant and strong some people will resent it. THat's actually a good sign. It's not always confined to the people who have benefitted from your weakness for years either; it can include strangers who resent the fact that you aren't the usual pushover! I've seen men get very angry when they come along and try to butt in on a deep conversation I'm having with a female friend and we answer his question then continue with the discussion we're already having. It seems that when a male stranger enters a conversation, all female eyes and ears are meant to be on him until he leaves the arena, regardless of how dull he is! I actually find men damn rude in this respect, tho I've been observing this one quite a few years now and it's definitely a societal expectation ~ that doesn't make it alright. It also ties in with how women value each other - why do they generally give more respect to the butting-in male than to the good female friend with whom they are already talking? Again, I think we're trained into believing in the *authority*/*superiority* of men from childhood. Well, not around here ~ respect is earned, not just given on the basis of gender!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hiya Shennie :)</p>
<p>&#8220;its funny because sometimes having a h is not like really having a partner for the most part their just another responsibility instead.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8230;absolutely! and that&#8217;s indeed the point I was making when I said it was ironic that single mothers had more time for themselves.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not rare unfortunately. It one of the many reasons men benefit so much from marriage and women lose out. It&#8217;s covered in *Backlash*. Glad to hear you&#8217;re going to read that. It&#8217;s by Susan Faludi; Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. She wrote it in the eighties, so it&#8217;s not a recent publication but the information inside is both timeless and priceless. You can pick it up for just a few cents via Amazon&#8217;s used books! whoopee :)</p>
<p>Is it womens &#8216;fault&#8217; they sacrifice everything for others? I think it&#8217;s the way we&#8217;re brought up to be and it&#8217;s a self perpetuating cycle. Girls are taught to be &#8216;good&#8217;, to nurse dollies, to play with tea sets, to look pretty, to be mother&#8217;s little helper ~ in fact to be &#8216;good&#8217; means to be &#8216;useful&#8217; where girls are concerned&#8230;it&#8217;s all there being fed to us from the start, just as it was fed to our own mothers as children. Boys are always given more freedom to be themselves. Girls only get that freedom from an acutely aware parent who not only avoids &#8216;mistraining&#8217; their child in such a way, but also prevents society from doing so ~ difficult &amp; rare indeed. </p>
<p>So it seems it is up to us as individuals to break out of the mold as best we can later in life. To undo those years of training! Another fabulous book I can recommend in this respect is &#8220;Dorothy Rowe&#8217;s Guide To Life&#8221; - she&#8217;s great; a natural observer from childhood and very humourous to boot. I first read an except of the book in Virgin Atlantic&#8217;s [unusually excellent] in-flight magazine and was struck by how sharp, observant, knowledgable and life-changing she was. I bought the book when the plane landed!</p>
<p>And if you&#8217;re really geting into this, here&#8217;s one more well worth a read: &#8220;A Woman In Your Own Right ~ Assertiveness and You&#8221; by Anne Dickenson. I inherited that book from my own mother :) It is a must for any woman who needs help being assertive, instead of aggressive/manipulative/doormattish ~ most women run through some [or all] of these behavioural cycles instead of just stating what they want in the first place/putting their foot down and saying *no* to something they dont want! Sad but true.</p>
<p>Finally, I&#8217;ll make the point that I am not some rampant feminist. I don&#8217;t believe women to be inherantly &#8216;better&#8217; than men. I just think we have more to overcome and are less able to genuinely be ourselves due to generations of misguidance and the perceptions/expectations of our society as a whole. It&#8217;s not a male &#8216;plot&#8217;; we&#8217;re all responsible for it. But on the other hand men certainly don&#8217;t want us to change things that are of benefit to them. These books help you do a number of things; 1. identify how your up-bringing and society have shaped [and continue to shape] your view of yourself. 2. understand the rules of the game of life as woman. 3. redress the balance to take back control and actually be a genuinely happier and more free person. Many times I&#8217;ve read about women who are completely lost when the children fly from the nest and the husband ditches her for a &#8216;younger model&#8217;. Do we really have to wait til that happens to reclaim our lives? </p>
<p>Finally, know that when you start being more observant and strong some people will resent it. THat&#8217;s actually a good sign. It&#8217;s not always confined to the people who have benefitted from your weakness for years either; it can include strangers who resent the fact that you aren&#8217;t the usual pushover! I&#8217;ve seen men get very angry when they come along and try to butt in on a deep conversation I&#8217;m having with a female friend and we answer his question then continue with the discussion we&#8217;re already having. It seems that when a male stranger enters a conversation, all female eyes and ears are meant to be on him until he leaves the arena, regardless of how dull he is! I actually find men damn rude in this respect, tho I&#8217;ve been observing this one quite a few years now and it&#8217;s definitely a societal expectation ~ that doesn&#8217;t make it alright. It also ties in with how women value each other - why do they generally give more respect to the butting-in male than to the good female friend with whom they are already talking? Again, I think we&#8217;re trained into believing in the *authority*/*superiority* of men from childhood. Well, not around here ~ respect is earned, not just given on the basis of gender!</p>
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		<title>By: Shennie</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1041</link>
		<dc:creator>Shennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1041</guid>
		<description>Lioness
You are so right, it is our own faults as we take on that role thinking things will be ok and that by sacrificing ourselves for children and to be wife will make it right does not always work.
I have learned and am slowly implemented some me first in my own life as it doesnt always come back as it should , you only become a doormat sadly. I am going to definately read that book. and you are also right about the fact that infidelity can be forgiven but its the lies that follow that cannot. they cannot seem to admit or own what they have done, or should i better say yes they say im sorry, i made a mistake, then still continue to find a way to lie to actually undermine those statements as if there is really justification for it. He is a lousy parent and frankly i am doing better in many other ways without him than i was with him I feel that having not only taken the resp of them and stood up for myself and my morals has shown them I am worthy and a good role model and it will at the very least have taught them not to let people shit on you as such. After my ex left and visited only a handful of times that first year before awolling us for the next 2 yrs plus, when he did come one of my children was so angered by him and he chose to not really talk and deal with her properly, she avoided him and upon his leaving the visit i would have all the kids say good bye and give him a hug. Well I just had a convo with that daughter who is know 16, 4 yrs after the fact and she confided to me that the only thing she is upset about now, is that I made her come and give him a hug as he left. She said dont you ever do that to me again, it gave me the sickest feeling that has stuck with me and a feeling I will never forget, she said i didnt want to do it and you shouldnt have made me, I told her i was very sorry but i only encouraged her to do it so this idiot would realize the enormity of what he was aabout to do but obviously didnt anyway and she truly has resented me for pushing her to do that. So for anyone out there , if your kids doesnt feel it and doesnt want to then dont encourage it.  Its funny because sometimes having a h is not like really having a partner for  the most part their just another responsibility instead. I m sure there are some good ones out there but far and few between.  I dont know that women push marraige and if they do they dont realize sometimes the baggage that goes with it it just gets dumped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lioness<br />
You are so right, it is our own faults as we take on that role thinking things will be ok and that by sacrificing ourselves for children and to be wife will make it right does not always work.<br />
I have learned and am slowly implemented some me first in my own life as it doesnt always come back as it should , you only become a doormat sadly. I am going to definately read that book. and you are also right about the fact that infidelity can be forgiven but its the lies that follow that cannot. they cannot seem to admit or own what they have done, or should i better say yes they say im sorry, i made a mistake, then still continue to find a way to lie to actually undermine those statements as if there is really justification for it. He is a lousy parent and frankly i am doing better in many other ways without him than i was with him I feel that having not only taken the resp of them and stood up for myself and my morals has shown them I am worthy and a good role model and it will at the very least have taught them not to let people shit on you as such. After my ex left and visited only a handful of times that first year before awolling us for the next 2 yrs plus, when he did come one of my children was so angered by him and he chose to not really talk and deal with her properly, she avoided him and upon his leaving the visit i would have all the kids say good bye and give him a hug. Well I just had a convo with that daughter who is know 16, 4 yrs after the fact and she confided to me that the only thing she is upset about now, is that I made her come and give him a hug as he left. She said dont you ever do that to me again, it gave me the sickest feeling that has stuck with me and a feeling I will never forget, she said i didnt want to do it and you shouldnt have made me, I told her i was very sorry but i only encouraged her to do it so this idiot would realize the enormity of what he was aabout to do but obviously didnt anyway and she truly has resented me for pushing her to do that. So for anyone out there , if your kids doesnt feel it and doesnt want to then dont encourage it.  Its funny because sometimes having a h is not like really having a partner for  the most part their just another responsibility instead. I m sure there are some good ones out there but far and few between.  I dont know that women push marraige and if they do they dont realize sometimes the baggage that goes with it it just gets dumped.</p>
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		<title>By: Lioness</title>
		<link>http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1037</link>
		<dc:creator>Lioness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2007/01/30/infidelity-quickie-5-how-could-she-do-this/#comment-1037</guid>
		<description>Hello Shennie and Nicki. Thank you for the responses. I'm glad that advice was useful to you in some way. 

I do understand that it's a different situation when you have kids. The problem is perhaps rooted in the fact that many women give themselves up to become wife and mother ~ until one day it feels like that's ALL they are. Everyone knows it's important to keep your own interests and friends, but women are the ones who let that slip. Your own things going on is a must in order to stop yourself literally getting lost in the roles of the people you are for others. Most of the women I know who've been most successful at keeping their own lives bubbling with friends and interesting hobbies are in fact single, working mothers. And I find that ironic ~ I mean, shouldn't they be MORE pressed for time than their married counterparts? Evidently not.

Conversely, the man somehow gets to keep his own ID. Not so lost in his roles, he tends to retain his friends and his time out. So it seems almost as if the woman climbs into the male when she gets married. And as time progresses, she gets lost in there. Strange then, how women are usually the ones pushing to settle down ~ In fact we have the least to gain in terms of health, happiness and even life expectancy. Marriage actually extends a man's life and shortens a woman's. Marriage reduces a woman's confidence but increases a man's. Marriage makes a man happy and a woman depressed. Of course this is oversimplification for the sake of brevity, and there are indeed exceptions besides, but it seems this grim truth is the norm. And looking at the couples I know who remain together, I can safely say the women are indeed long suffering, each and every one of them.

So why is it that women are the ones who tend to push for marriage in the first place? Why do we believe it will be sweetness and light for us, even tho the evidence around us clearly shows this is not the case? And in regard to the rather strong statements I made above about the negative/positive affects of marriage upon a woman/man, properly gathered scientific data wholly supports these facts ~ you can find it in a book entitled *Backlash*, along with a whole raft of other information that will shock and surprise you but which helps you make an informed decision about where your life is headed. Frankly I beleive it's essential reading for every woman, be she coupled up or not. If you are going through a difficult time in your marriage tho, it will certainly help you find your own strength. Just beware; it may leave you with the urge to boot him out the door! I read it at the same time as I was undergoing the therapy I referred to in my previous post. And I do believe the timing of those two things combined, in unison with seeing through my git-of-an ex will keep me single for the rest of my days. On one level that could be construed a shame, but that level involves a myth in my opinion. In reality, I can't help feeling I've been spared.

Talking frankly, it is easy for me to be this way because I've always been very independent. Please bear that in mind when you read my posts ~ I don't want to push anyone to leave a marriage that may be mendable. If you think you can make it work and have a huge investment in it already, then do try. And of course marriage is a partnership [tho as Nicki says, not always with equal shares!] so it does take work to make it work. Little crinkles to iron out and all that. Even infidelities can be gotten over; as I mentioned in the first post, I would have wholeheartedly forgiven my first ex his transgression HAD he been straight when the time came for the truth. I really could have let it go. But lies are not OK and this needs to be made clear in simple terms. Ongoing lies despite discovery are the killer tho. They are what completely destroy trust, and at the root of those kind of lies is not some altruistic care for our hurt feelings, but a man trying to ensure he gets off as scot free as possible, make no mistake. I don't beleive any woman is better of staying with that kind of man. If he really means "sorry" he will tell you the truth about what he's apologising for. If he says "sorry" whilst still feeding you those same lies to save his own skin, that sorry is just plain rubbish. He's a waste of space and no role model for your kids in the first place ~ better to have one strong parent than a pair comprised of one lying, cheat and another too fearful to leave him. My own mother brought more than a handful of us up alone, while working and paying for everything herself. All of us turned out extremely well; she was an excellent role model. And she did actually give him a second chance when I was around 7 years old; that was the most awful time of my childhood. I had never seen my mother so embattled nor so unhappy as she was when he came back. The rows were horrendous ~ definitely not something a child benefits from. It's for sure my own attitude towards these things take some reference from that point in time; the decision not to ever live that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Shennie and Nicki. Thank you for the responses. I&#8217;m glad that advice was useful to you in some way. </p>
<p>I do understand that it&#8217;s a different situation when you have kids. The problem is perhaps rooted in the fact that many women give themselves up to become wife and mother ~ until one day it feels like that&#8217;s ALL they are. Everyone knows it&#8217;s important to keep your own interests and friends, but women are the ones who let that slip. Your own things going on is a must in order to stop yourself literally getting lost in the roles of the people you are for others. Most of the women I know who&#8217;ve been most successful at keeping their own lives bubbling with friends and interesting hobbies are in fact single, working mothers. And I find that ironic ~ I mean, shouldn&#8217;t they be MORE pressed for time than their married counterparts? Evidently not.</p>
<p>Conversely, the man somehow gets to keep his own ID. Not so lost in his roles, he tends to retain his friends and his time out. So it seems almost as if the woman climbs into the male when she gets married. And as time progresses, she gets lost in there. Strange then, how women are usually the ones pushing to settle down ~ In fact we have the least to gain in terms of health, happiness and even life expectancy. Marriage actually extends a man&#8217;s life and shortens a woman&#8217;s. Marriage reduces a woman&#8217;s confidence but increases a man&#8217;s. Marriage makes a man happy and a woman depressed. Of course this is oversimplification for the sake of brevity, and there are indeed exceptions besides, but it seems this grim truth is the norm. And looking at the couples I know who remain together, I can safely say the women are indeed long suffering, each and every one of them.</p>
<p>So why is it that women are the ones who tend to push for marriage in the first place? Why do we believe it will be sweetness and light for us, even tho the evidence around us clearly shows this is not the case? And in regard to the rather strong statements I made above about the negative/positive affects of marriage upon a woman/man, properly gathered scientific data wholly supports these facts ~ you can find it in a book entitled *Backlash*, along with a whole raft of other information that will shock and surprise you but which helps you make an informed decision about where your life is headed. Frankly I beleive it&#8217;s essential reading for every woman, be she coupled up or not. If you are going through a difficult time in your marriage tho, it will certainly help you find your own strength. Just beware; it may leave you with the urge to boot him out the door! I read it at the same time as I was undergoing the therapy I referred to in my previous post. And I do believe the timing of those two things combined, in unison with seeing through my git-of-an ex will keep me single for the rest of my days. On one level that could be construed a shame, but that level involves a myth in my opinion. In reality, I can&#8217;t help feeling I&#8217;ve been spared.</p>
<p>Talking frankly, it is easy for me to be this way because I&#8217;ve always been very independent. Please bear that in mind when you read my posts ~ I don&#8217;t want to push anyone to leave a marriage that may be mendable. If you think you can make it work and have a huge investment in it already, then do try. And of course marriage is a partnership [tho as Nicki says, not always with equal shares!] so it does take work to make it work. Little crinkles to iron out and all that. Even infidelities can be gotten over; as I mentioned in the first post, I would have wholeheartedly forgiven my first ex his transgression HAD he been straight when the time came for the truth. I really could have let it go. But lies are not OK and this needs to be made clear in simple terms. Ongoing lies despite discovery are the killer tho. They are what completely destroy trust, and at the root of those kind of lies is not some altruistic care for our hurt feelings, but a man trying to ensure he gets off as scot free as possible, make no mistake. I don&#8217;t beleive any woman is better of staying with that kind of man. If he really means &#8220;sorry&#8221; he will tell you the truth about what he&#8217;s apologising for. If he says &#8220;sorry&#8221; whilst still feeding you those same lies to save his own skin, that sorry is just plain rubbish. He&#8217;s a waste of space and no role model for your kids in the first place ~ better to have one strong parent than a pair comprised of one lying, cheat and another too fearful to leave him. My own mother brought more than a handful of us up alone, while working and paying for everything herself. All of us turned out extremely well; she was an excellent role model. And she did actually give him a second chance when I was around 7 years old; that was the most awful time of my childhood. I had never seen my mother so embattled nor so unhappy as she was when he came back. The rows were horrendous ~ definitely not something a child benefits from. It&#8217;s for sure my own attitude towards these things take some reference from that point in time; the decision not to ever live that way.</p>
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