Learn from these real life extramarital affair coaching scenarios.
In the first section the person struggling with the marital infidelity summarizes the scenario or concern and what he/she would like to say to his/her cheating spouse.
I then outline some goals that help him/her break free from the affair.
The last and important section gets at shifting the focus away from the spouse/partner to him/her self. In other words, what does all this mean for the person on the receiving end of an extramarital affair? After that mental shift (which is NOT easy for someone in the pain and turmoil of perhaps losing one’s spouse, family, and home) I, the coach, offer phrases that he/she can relay to his/her spouse in a way that speaks directly of his/her concern and has the best chance of being heard and getting positive results.
Section 1: The “offended spouse” says:
I used to focus on what mood is he in, is he going to talk to me today, is he going to look/act like he’d rather be anywhere else with anyone else other than me. This habit/pattern is hard to break, but I’m working on it. I was so hurt and rejected that sometimes in my depression that I didn’t leave the house for days. All this in an attempt to figure out how to be okay with my life and how lonely I was. This was his excuse for his affair (“if you thought it was bad being that way, you have no idea how hard it is to live with a person like that” – thoughtful words from him after I learned of his affair). I’ve been figuring out “what makes me happy” as friends refer to it, but that seems selfish and that’s just not me. I’m learning how much living like that has affected the simplist of things – mood, attitude, communication and my relationship with our 13 yr old daughter. I wrestled with deciding whether or not to stay in my marriage and even though we’re still living together, I was non-committal and that hasn’t helped things much. But lately, I’ve been getting more clarification. I still don’t have all the answers as for our marriage, but I do know that I’m doing what I’m called to do right now. He has been making changes although I’ve been frustrated that they’re not the ones I think he should be doing. I realized that he’s trying and doing the best he can and I’ve not acknowledged the changes that he has made and that tears down the very thing that I said that I wanted. Regardless of where this leads, I’m ready to move forward with my life. He has an opportunity to rise higher in his life and our relationship and if he’s unable, I can accept that, but I know with all my heart that I need more than that and I love him enough to let him go. Otherwise, it’ll continue to tear us down as individuals and as a couple. That to me would be unforgivable – to intentionally choose that. I’ve finally forgiven him and I’m excited to be able to share that with him when I see him (he’s working 4 hrs away for a couple of weeks). I believe it’s a gift that both of us need and it’s necessary for healing regardless of whether we stay together or not. In addition to asking him to forgive me for where I fell short in our relationship, I’ve finally forgiven myself. The reality is that he made some wrong decision(s), but as painful as all of this has been (this was his second affair), I’m grateful for the opportunities that it’s opened in my heart. There’s great power in “pressing on” and getting through. I’ll even go as far as to say that I’m starting to determine my call and purpose in life. I don’t have the specifics yet, but I know that my past experiences were not given to me just to keep them inside and hide them away (survival of growing up in physical, emotional and verbal abuse, death of my child at age 7, two abusive ex husbands, battling depression, etc). I believe they can help others too. I’ve always believed that, I just lost sight of it. I’m excited to see how all of this unfolds. Well, I know you didn’t ask for a book, but I’ve never been one short on words.
Section 2: Personal goals suggested by the coach:
- Welcome your sensitivity. Learn ways to use it, especially with others.
- Examine, reflect, write down the “themes?? of your life that you are internally addressing when “depressed.??
- Congratulate your self on your tremendous growth and progress.
- Be very specific on the changes you want from him.
- List 5 factors that “hold you back?? from him.
- List 6 of your greatest personal needs. (Check out the needless program on my site)
- Continue working hard on defining your life’s purpose.
Section 3: What the affair means for the “offended spouse” and what he/she REALLY wants to say to his spouse/partner having the affair:
- I’m working hard on me, and boy, does that feel good. Also very exciting. But, I’m not sure, sometimes, where that leaves me with you.
- I want for us to have a richer relationship but it seems there has been so much pain and hurt, on both of our parts, that I wonder, what that means for our future.
- I have some very specific needs that I would like you to meet. But, I know this can be very tricky and rather scary. For example, I would like ____________. If you can do that, great. If not, help me understand what gets in the way. Maybe just give it some thought first, and we can get at it later.
What is your situation? Describe your situation. Let it flow. Don’t hold back. Then, ask yourself, “What does this marital mean for ME?” What impact does his/her extramarital affair have on my feelings, thoughts and actions? Then rehearse approaching your spouse/partner with phrases that convey the meaning and impact of the infidelity for YOU.
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January 17th, 2007 at 1:00 am
Hi all
Wow a new slate, depression to a future tinged with hope now that sounds much better to me. Focus on yourself , they are doing a fine job focusing on themselves and adding us to their pot of selfishness only adds to it all and in my opinion prolongs everything. take care of you, he is so why not you too.
January 25th, 2007 at 10:02 am
Hi Jessi
yes your right about forgiveness but i think its more important oto forgive yourself, i mean alot of people blame themselves what did I do wrong, am i not pretty enough, etc, but what we must realize its really more about them and their insecurities than it is about us, this just causes us to look at ourselves. if we can forgive ourselves for whatever reason this happend then we can grow and move on. Sometimes the spouse isnt always around to communicate with which is in my case, so I have had to look inside myself more as a result and forgive whatever i may have blamed myself for and try my best to learn from it.I have heard so many esp woman say i am insecure about myself, some of that comes with having kids and being a mom, everything is like a test drive in life and we dont always know what we are doing wrong until we do it and we cant always be holding things against ourself for it as then we become non productive. Some people truly dont deserve to be forgiven esp if they havent done things to show they deserve it or if they havent asked for it. We can only forgive ourselves for why we are here and to become better with them or without them. Sometimes there are ways to forgive people without communication like setting them free, you know the old say if it comes back its yours if it doesnt it never was. We cant hold what we dont have. Everyone must be doing something good as all the rel here seem to be improving for the most part and I hope the upward swing continues.
January 26th, 2007 at 1:10 am
Hey Sue
I have to agree with MS and what she said to you in the surface blog, you are becoming the OP, does she even know he is coming to see you or does she think its the kids he is coming to see. Maybe slip a love note in his pocket or a spray of perfume on his coat when he is not looking, maybe its time to get her going and let him see the real her. you could use this to you advantage. You have already given him ultimatems and it doesnt seem like it has worked yet so that road will prob stay the same til your fed up. If you really want your marraige back play the innocent OP, forget about her when he is there, compliment him on whatever, appearance, handyman etc dont make every time he sees you a discussion about her. Call when you need to when she is home you know about the kids, an important decision you need his help with. eventually she will come to resent it and him and that may be all he needs to push over the line to you. Please dont be offended by what I say it isnot my intention. He is living with her you are the OP technically so play the reverse role its worth a shot. what have you got to lose that you havent thought of already. Take care and thinkn of you
January 26th, 2007 at 2:19 am
I agree, you have to get past blaming yourself.. being a mom and caring for elderly parents, working full time and everything else we do as women of this day and age makes us spread ourselves a bit thin. Needless to say the last thing we make time for is ourselves. In our case I think life just got in the way and we didn’t make time to talk about the important stuff. I don’t blame myself but I do accept my share of the responsibility even though I was unaware of what was happening. He just didn’t say anything to me and was busy withhis own life. Still waiting for him to come to terms with his share of the responsibility… I think deep down he knows but bringing it to the surface could be a bit confronting for him.
January 26th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Shennie, you said it so much better than I did about the obeservations in Sue’s situation. I think I came on a little strong, but I just hate it when I see manipulation and indecisiveness on the offending spouses part. Sue, have you asked your husband a time frame that he is willing to set with you to put an end to this limbo he has created for you? Maybe if HE sets the time frame, he will work quicker to S–t or get off the pot?!!!! Sorry, I know how hard this is for you, I just see you sliding down from so much hope to breaking down now from the stress of it all. He has to know how him living with her and making promises to you, promises that he hasn’t done anything about, is affecting you. He just NEEDS to make a decision. Someone is going to get hurt, you or her. It’s inevitable. He is letting his guilt over this hurt cloud his judgement on what he needs to do. My thoughts are if he REALLY wanted to come home and stay, he would. He left didn’t he. So what’s so difficult about coming back? You are waiting with open arms and he knows you want him to come home, so it’s not like he should be afraid of rejection. My fear for you is that you were so strong, and moving toward a good life without him and starting to feel better, and then WHAM! he sees this and doesn’t like it that you are moving on without him and decides if he says the right things, he can keep you at bay until he sees what it is like with her. I think he sees how strong you have become and found the one weakness he can get to, him saying he wants to come home, and then he opens the crack to make a bigger cavern. Maybe I’m wrong, I don’t know him or you really, just what you write, so sorry if this sounds harsh. Once again, I am just looking out for you. Wish I could look out for me, but when you’re in the situation, sometimes you can’t see the forest for the trees and need someone outside to open your eyes. I know it’s easy for me to say, I’m not there. I just don’t want to see your hopes up and shattered if he can’t come through with his promises. Hope last night went well. MS
January 26th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Sue
I will say this again, if you really really want to save the marriage i think you have to have a plan and all the chatting and talking doesnt mean anything if there are no actions to his words
I think you should give what i said above a try and if you get more tension between them he may see the real her and not someone through rosy colored glasses. If you just want it to be over then plan for that and be prepared for either way but in that I will tell you to possibly expect the worse, one thing i have learned is that when they are put on the defense they will choose safeness and that is likely with her right now. I agree with MS he is keeping you on a string and if he was truly working through things with you and really wanted to come home he would have by now that doesnt mean he doesnt love you he is just getting the best of both worlds right now and why shouldnt he because he can. Send the kids home with him and give her a tast of real life that is a mistake i made well didnt actually make but didnt have the chance to do because he awolled us for years and didnt see him but in looking back i should have sent them demanded it een so she could have a taste of the real life we know as reality. because so many years passed for us not all kids will go now but i wish that she could have her share of resp in this but she doesnt because if she did their life tog would not be so rosey trust me we all know this. She can empathize with him but if she had to deal with his kids it would show a side of her he may not like and may become defensive of his kids eventually. I know this is really hard because deep down you dont want your kids involved with this person anyways but trust me it will happen whether you like it or not depending on their ages so you may as well push the envelope wile you can and let her see and him what real life is really like and it may give you the needed break in the process to figure out what you want and develop a life for yourself another thing you will needfor sure. please dont take offence to any of this it isnot intended . I know you want to save your marraige but discussing a mute point endlessly willnot solve it and giving ultomatems wont get you what you want either, just think about it ok you have to do something but think of what outcome you want first and do what serves that outcome. I am worried about you.
January 26th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
MS – I have to agree with your comments about these guys in general. (or ladies)….it’s almost like they need their back against a wall. If it’s not against that wall, and they have “wiggle room”, then they cannot commit. Once they have crossed the line to infidelity, I think it does something to their brain. Ha! Sorry to be like this, it’s just that I am so tired of all the pain and lies and I have come to some type of clarity in all this. My husband is back home, I don’t think he’s cheating, but he never did anything to fix the animosity he’s caused between our families. For example, my daughter is in a play tonight, and both sets of families will be attending. He has done no apologizing etc, so nobody is “talking” and they are only going for the grandchild’s sake. So, what does that do to me? Builds animosity towards my spouse. This is what the aftermath of an affair does, unless the person truly is 100% remorseful and takes ACTION to rectify thier behavior, nothing really gets solved. And in turn, I have become bitter, resentful, and on the fence. It’s the age old, “let’s put it behind us”……it’s not that simple. If it was, we would not be on this blog!!!
just my two cents.
hope eveyone has a great weekend!!!!!!
January 26th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
First of all I have to say…STOP APOLOGIZING! I must be writing my feelings more clearly than I think I am because you are all responding as though you are sitting across from me. Your advice is well founded and appreciated.
The trouble for me is that I feel like I am not being manipulated. I don’t know if that is my wish, naivte or the reality. The trouble is that this is an impossible position for me to be in and finding the strength to be positive is unrealistic….but I do try.
I do need to keep the focus on me. That does help. Last night was pretty bad as he could not handle the negative. However, today was much better as he thought about it and responded well.
We hit ‘new’ ground today. He is still running and it seems to be more about the kids and the responsibility of being a parent. This is a bummer…..duh…for all the reasons you all know. But it is a realization for him that was not there before. He is not insightful about it, but is thinking about it and realizing that there is an issue there that may be motivating more of this than he thought could be possible.
His view of the world remains pretty distorted and I am not happy being the op. Shennie….your advice rings true as it is something that has worked well to get us to this point. I backed off and so did he (although he will vehemently deny that.)
I do NOT want him to leave her because of the ultimatum. I have come to that as I now realize I will always wonder if that happens. It really does have to be on his terms. Having said that I think I may have upped the anty for myself in that I must also be done on my own terms…….not because I think there may be another result. Which means when it is done, it is probably really done. It is both our personalities.
So I will continue to write to you all and appreciate all input. It helps me to sort it out on a daily basis. I hope it is somewhat helpful to someone else as well. I feel like I am jumping from one roller coaster to another.
I am pushing for him to take the kids skiing next weekend. He has never taken them ANYWHERE by himself (even out to dinner). Because of our lives this never really became apparent until now. He is having a hard time telling me no as the cards are on the table. Honestly, I think this will be more of a test of his ability to justify and run away than the affair. If he does it I truly believe it will mean good things….somehow.
I just have to remain calm in my thoughts and actions. The second I appear desperate for it to happen I will lose all.
Hope this makes sense. THANK YOU ALL AGAIN!!! You are experienced (yuck!) and I appreciate the words. I am strong enough to take what fits, question what I am not sure about and never say no to any of it! What does not fit today may fit tomorrow!
Will look forward to what is happening with each of you.
BTW….I think my friends are secretly thrilled that I found all of you as they are not getting the phone calls at night that take them away from their families. :)
January 27th, 2007 at 12:28 am
Sue
I am glad you are encouraging for him to take the kids but do more than encourage play the separated part as you are so he will know what it is like if he stays with her you have to let him see its not all fun and games. If he has never taken them then he hasnt taken his share of the responsibility. make him do it and often it is only fair to you, set this timeline ok you have the kid on such and such for this length of time as that is how it WILL be if you divorce so let him taste it now and her.
Also i want to clarify something you may have misunderstood though i am a little reluctant but need to be honest with you.
when i talked about the ultimatum i wasnt assuming he would leave her i meant he would not come back. He is with her and that has proved to him a safeness right now otherwise he would already be back with you. i dont think an ultimatem would bring him back sorry if i said that wrong, it would push him to her. That is why i am saying your only alternative right now is to let him have a tast of what his life will be like in divorce his share of the kids. i dont mean to pry either but is he paying support right now. hope things improve what did you decide to do with the jan deadline i havent heard anymore on that what is his response to that keep us posted and take care
January 27th, 2007 at 1:44 am
I’m exhausted and going to bed…just got off the chat room. But keep thinking about this laugh my sister in law sent me in the beginning of all of this…and it has kept coming closer to reality (which we talk about all the time) and wanted to share……(I think I may have given parts of it already…..but it makes me laugh and causes pause all at the same time).
A man comes home and tells his wife, “You haven’t lived up to you end of the bargain. When we were 25 we lived in an apartment with a futon and black and white tv. But that was ok because I was waking up every morning next to a 25 yo. hot babe. Now we live in a big house with a big screen tv and sleep in a king size bed. You have not held up your end.”
She says, “That’s OK honey. If you want to wake up next to a 25 yo. hot babe every morning you can be sure you will be living in an apartment, on a futon, watching a black and white tv. Not to worry.”
Oh so true………..
January 27th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Hi all – thanks for the re-routing to the new blog – Sue, I think you are on the right track when you talked about ultimatums and things needing to be on his terms – he sounds an awful lot like my husband – believe me, I know what a terrible position you are in – although my husband did not move out and this was his way of saying to me that he had “chosen” our marriage, he continued to maintain contact with her via phone calls, emails and meeting for coffee, etc. and so it was all on his terms. He knew that I couldn’t accept those terms forever but couldn’t bring himself to let her go completely – he swore over and over that he never made her any promises and that he told her he loved me and didn’t want to leave me – but she spun her own fantasy and that gave me a lot of leverage to talk to him about how his actions were basically leading her on to keep hoping – trust me, she really really needed him – she doesn’t work a steady job and her husband was supposedly physically abusive, she had breast cancer – so she needed my husband’s emotional support, reinforcement that she was beautiful and the abuse wasn’t her fault, his income and his medical insurance – she would have loved to snag him because he is a well-respected and well-loved teacher in this community. Anyway what I wanted to tell you is that there have been three people who held me back from issuing an ultimatum early in the process – one was my male Marriage and Family Therapist – he advised me not to get into a power struggle; the second was my very best friend who has known my husband longer than I have – she talked over and over to me about how stubborn he is and how you don’t push him into a corner; the third was a woman I met through the site “Cheating Roller Coaster for the Betrayed” – that is a tough site b/c most people will advise you to make your demands and leave if they are not met – but this woman had been through two of her husband’s affairs and talked a lot about how ultimatums don’t work for some people -that said, I agree with what someone said about some people needing to have no wiggle room – everyone is different so you gotta use your knowledge of the spouse – one other thing I thought of – when I first found out, my husband had a lot to say about what a train-wreck our marriage was – as a matter of fact it was his telling me a couple months before my discovery about how unhappy he was in our marriage that made me start to snoop – what I felt was, if he left at that point b/c I gave him an ultimatum – either cut off all contact or leave – he would have only negative memories of our marriage – I felt that if I allowed him to stay and tried to build some positive things – even though it made me nuts that he wanted to maintain a friendship with her – he would be more likely to see that our marriage could work for both of us. I will also be honest – a huge part of me was just not willing, after 36 yrs of marriage and 40 years of knowing one another – to just hand him over to this person – if I truly believed that he had finally met the love of his life, maybe I would have acted differently – but I am a psychologist and the objective part of me believed that he was caught up in the romance and the intrigue and the passion – they were making him feel good about himself at a time in his life when his physical health was not good – he was affirmed by attracting a woman who was 9 years younger than he, etc. There were many times when I danced between the devastated wife and the understanding therapist – it was brutal and I don’t wish it on my worst enemy – hope some of this gives you food for thought – take care, all of you
January 27th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Hi all, I am learning so much here. I agree about the ultimatums working for certain situations. I think that if your spouse isn’t truely “in love” with the other person, an ultimatum may work, but if there are any strong emotions for the OP, you take your chances that that’s where they’ll end up. My H told me last night after a lengthy conversation that he still cares for the OP whether it is love or not, he is not sure. He is struggling with those feelings. He was friends with this person for a LONG time before they actually moved to another level and that bond is difficult to break. She didn’t do anything to him and he loved being with her and loved the way he felt when he was with her. So I deduce that those were things he didn’t feel about me. That’s ok, but where does that leave me, us, I am not sure. He says he loves me, but is that love enough to break the bond with this OP, I don’t know? I am struggling with the realization once again that I am not the only one in his heart and the only person who can change that is him. I am living day to day here. Trying to keep my emotions in check as to not breakdown and push him further away. I realize at some point either he or I will have “enough” and release the other to find peace or he will realize that he was right in letting her go and find his peace with me. He has never “left” either, but if he does go at this point it won’t be that he is waivering, it will be that he realizes he still loves this person in a different way than he loves me or that he just doesn’t think it will ever work between us. I will not ask him to leave unless I know that he does not love me and stops trying to heal this wound. As long as he is trying, I’ll have hope. I do agree with Shennie about taking the kids, Sue. If my husband ever leaves, as much as I would it would kill me for him to take them, he will. He will take them and see the reality of the situation, and if he likes it then I’ll have to cope with that, but there is a chance that he will see that life with them and not me is not what he wants. Anyway, keep the faith, MS
January 27th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Read your blog with interest Marlene. I feel a bit like you. Deep down I don’t believe this woman he has met is the love of his life, he even admtted she massages his ego. He saisd something that makes me feel like he is trying to recapture that initial romance feeling. The thing that I am having trouble with now is that he just can’t seem to put the things that happened in our relationship behind him and move on. It is almost like he is punnishing me for ant=ything I have done and that he is the wounded one in all of this. I am not sure if I want to hang in there any longer. For today anyway. I just don’t know if he has any forgiveness in his heart. Is anyone else feeling like the one that has to do everything to make things better. Is it his denial of the hurt he has caused that makes him act like this. Wish I could just crawl inside his head on really know what is going on.
January 29th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Again and again…..I feel like we are living the same lives. MS and Jessi…..I am so where you are at right now. Marlene…I have used your words to guide me this weekend. MS…I would not deduce that he does not feel that about you. Feelings are complicated and the newness of a relationship without the hassles of family life are not so real. This is really not about you….as you know…..remember it when you think those things too.
We have had another really bad setback. He came for dinner last night and then left for other plans…having people over. Too hurt to write about it. He regrets it now, but too bad he is still playing those games.
We had a great family discussion tonight. The kids were having a breakdown when he showed up…about his lack of being there for them. It started off contentious, I left the room, came back and said we needed to all talk about the real issue of not knowing what was going to happen and how that is affecting us.
How proud I am of my 11 and 12 year olds. They spoke calmly and succinctly and said all that they feel. Including…..every time you ‘ditch us’ it erases all the good you’ve done because it brings back the feelings that you don’t love us. (My sentiments exactly…even though he can’t see the ‘ditch’ part.) And..we want you to put us first and even to surprise us sometimes by being with us when we don’t expect it, not because we asked or mom told you to be with us.
How great is that??? He responded really well by talking it through and then asking them what they really want. They told him they wanted him to ‘ditch’ the op and come home. He said, OK….then what do you want while we are waiting for that to happen. Tough one for everyone. That only got so far, but the words expectations and honesty were used a lot.
End result? He feels better than he did yesterday and clearly more connected. The kids are in a MUCH better state and were thrilled with the family dinner he brought over and prepared. I am distant and talking about moving on. I am calm and reasonable, but not in any way accepting of what has happened this weekend (or similar circumstances almost weekly). I told him it is up to him to make the change. It is about him. It is ever more questionable that we will be here waiting if he takes much longer. The kids actually said that too. Did I say how proud I am???
As far as the skiing thing goes. He hasn’t said no, but hasn’t said yes either. I have been very clear in asking him what he is so afraid of that he has never spent even a dinner out alone with them. You would think that if he can have the above conversation he would be capable of being alone with them. Something clearly scares the pants off of him. But he knows they need it. He hears me saying they will all feel really good if he does it. (Did I mention that I hate the thought of being totally by myself all weekend?) But it really does need to happen. On sooooo many levels.
As always….here’s hoping………
January 29th, 2007 at 9:34 am
Sue
Not tryin to upset you more but why would he bother taking them out alone if well if he doesnt or hasnt had to. That was my whole point of giving him those responsibilities because not only will it show him what he has to do in the future he may have the opportunity to connect with them even more and realize their feelings on a more productive level. Its sounds to me like he isnt going to do anything about it anytime soon other than talk. I am glad the kids got it out but if he doesnt live up to whatever he told them he will have caused more damage to them in the end and his relationship with them. Was nice of him to make dinner for everyone im sure it makes him feel like he is doing his part. i really feel bad for you that he keeps sitting on the fence has he said how long he plans on doing that. Has that come out of these productive conversations. You said he left for other plans and regrets it now or is that just what he said because if he regretted it he could have changed it at any time. I am not trying to upset you but i think you are starting to let him take total advantage of this situation. because you want so desperately to save your marraige and i suspect he knows this and uses it to keep you connected. He hasnt even let the op go let alone start building you rel again. He cannot do that if the op is still in the pic and living with him no less. I hope this week brings more productive results for your sake.
January 29th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
Shennie, You are not upsetting me. Some of what you say is true and some is not.
The only way to ‘make’ him do those things is with legal paperwork. He has never done it in the past and I did not really see that until now….neither did he. This weekend will be a true test as now I truly have to work all weekend and the kids are totally expecting to ski……and should. He is responsible for them in the house, but really doesn’t get it outside of the house….as one friend said, it’s a good thing there are therapists! Just for the record…..he would prefer I go away for the weekend and do something fun than to take the kids away alone. Clearly this needs to happen for soooo many reasons.
If he tries to wiggle out of this there will be some major damage done with the kids.
ANd……just to be clear…..life between he and I is not so pleasant right now. We are cordial and he is sad…..but I am in a big self protection, move on mode. He may be taking advantage of the situation…..but that will be his own undoing. I really can not control what he does. And when I try to I get myself into the state I was in last week. Me, me, me right now.
January 29th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Hi All –
Can anyone give me some advice on how to go for weeks without bringing up the OP? Has anyone done this, and if so, what does it do to the relationship. I cannot seem to go more than 4 days, 5 at the most. Can’t make a full week. This is very distressing to me.
January 29th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
I haven’t been able to go more than a few days! It’s raw and it hasn’t been over, so discussions for myself and my husband are unfortunately frequent and sometimes brutal. If I let my emotions hide about what I am feeling about the affair, I end up blowing up in two or three days. I just can’t bury them far enough to stop them from surfacing. I am going to my internist on Friday for a anti-depressant and we see the therapist on Thurs at 1pm. I am hoping for some insight on where we go from here. My husband works with the OP so, I found out thru his calander that he has a meeting with her alone in his office on Thurs. He doesn’t know I know I guess cause and he hasn’t said anything. Plus he has a sales meeting with her and other people all day Mon, Tues. He says he hasn’t talked to her, but my gut is telling me that’s not so. Part of me is tempted to just leave it alone and let him figure it out himself. Either he can’t stand to be without her, which at this point she will want him to divorce me, so I will know. Or, he will realize he wants to be with me and finally end it himself. Not sure he is strong enough to do either of those things. I think he will string us both along until, either she blows a nut and says she wants to see the divorce papers or I blow and just file mysself. I have been pulling away emotionally since this last encounter with her. I just don’t beleive what he says, good or bad now. I have a bad feeling that things are going to come to a head once again.
My 5 y/o asked me today about a friends daughter. She wanted to know if she was coming to dinner with us and I said know she is at her real mom’s house. She questioned what I meant and I told her that the girl’s dad was married before marrying my friend and had the girl with this other woman, then they got divorced and he married my friend and had two other kids with my friend. She said “What’s divorce, mom’s and dad’s still stay together right?” and I said no they don’t live together anymore and are not married to eachother anymore, but if they have kids they share them and spend time with them, but not all together. She was silent. She knows somethings up and it is killing me. Killing me. She wanted to know why the girl had a bedroom at my friends house and I told her because she lives part of the week there and part of the week at her mom’s, so she has two bedrooms. Silence again. I am so sad and angry that my poor innocent kids are going to be destroyed by their own father and his mistress. What on earth did I ever do to deserve this hell? Sorry, just sad today. Thanks for listening. MS
January 29th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
To Jessi – yes, I went through several months of his not being able to put his disappointments and disillusionments about our marriage behind him – the most upset I have EVER seen him in 40 years (including even when his mother died) was his saying that no matter how he tried he could not put all the sadness behind him – he said he saw sadness wherever he looked – in her because he had stopped their physical relationship and had told her he didn’t plan to leave me and he knew he was letting her down, in me because of how he had betrayed me, in himself because of what he had done, in us because we let our marriage get to this point, etc. – all I can say is that I waited it out and it went away – he “lost it” completely at the end of June, crying, devastated, etc. and by August was able to say that his head was in a different place -if you ever want to see irony, watch the unfaithful spouse grieve because he was unfaithful – it’s quite disconcerting to say the least – I was also punished constantly for what I “did” and just couldn’t do anything right – the only thing that I can think of that changed this course was when I got angry at something he said to me (we were away on a trip with friends) and told him that I was angry and that I simply didn’t deserve to be treated the way he was treating me – within a week of that confrontation he was singing a different tune – still “connected” to her but was suddenly talking more about how he needed to extricate himself from his relationship with her and, most important, finally admitting that he had been horrible to me.
To Anonymous – I don’t have any advice, I still think about her a lot too – tough also because I see her around town – all I can tell you is to keep your eye on the prize – every time we make love I think “eat your heart out, OP, he’s here with me, not you” – for me, information is my way to control a situation so I have done a lot to find out about her – but – you have to be able to control your thoughts too and not get so caught up in her – remember that he did this and she was just the person he did it with – that helps to lessen her importance – she will always think that she is the “one” who made him cheat – but it’s not really true – there is nothing so special about her, despite what she says (or even what he says – my husband initially gave me the line that he has had many opportunties to do this and usually he could just turn away, but this time he just couldn’t – try listening to that!! Men are soooo self-absorbed!)- she just came along with the right combination of features at the right time – as I said, she can think she is the love of his life if it makes her feel better but she wasn’t and she isn’t – because if she were, he’d be with her – trust me on this because we have very very close friends who are now a couple and each one of them cheated on their spouse before they became a couple – and they have been together for over ten years – so I have seen with my own eyes when the affair partner becomes the permanent partner, so I know it’s possible – but it’s rare -hang in there, y’all, and be strong
January 29th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
MS…..so sorry for your pain. I can feel it. I think you are right in the fact that you will and do know what is really happening. But you also need to balance that (OK…almost impossible) with what is happening with you. I think there is such a seesaw for so long that it is hard to determine the pieces at any given time. Believe me…I’m not nearly as far as you toward the marriage and I am feeling it now. I don’t believe I will have a marriage. But then he says something/does something that makes me think we will. The fact is that they waiver in their own feelings and minds. It is up to us to decide what we want and will be most comfortable with…..and they are there, or not.
Oh how I wish that was as easy as I just said it.
Marlene……I feel like you are so the same as me, but stronger. But then again I am dealing with him living with the OP. I still look to you for advice, so keep writing. It helps.
Anonymous……I actually showed my h the note from you as I can’t seem to go an hour…let alone days or weeks. Of course, my situation is different, but I think that if you can stop yourself from bringing it up 3 out of 4 times that you really want to……that’s probably a really great thing. I truly believe it becomes the ‘topic of conversation’ because it is our lives, but that is not so healthy either. Don’t know that this is helpful. Especially coming from someone who is not so good at following through with her own advise.
But I keep saying it unitl I believe it. And sometimes I actually do it before I believe it. So much of it has worked for me. I’ll keep doing it. Until I am on my own or happily married. Obviously both are a long way off….but I am trying to accept the process without giving up on me and the influence I have on the process…in both directions.
God speed to all.
January 30th, 2007 at 1:49 am
ok….hope i’m not boring…but another insight.
i want what is good for me. i don’t want the marriage we had……thought it was good at the time, but this has shown me how bad it was for me. not all bad……but now i know what i want.
he has shown me what could be…..through real changes and circumstatial maybes
i want that.
if he can’t provide it i’d rather move on and take the risk than to live knowing i settled for less than i have now realized i want and deserve.
the trouble is in the deciphering that picture.
looking forward to counseling…..hoping that this woman will be interactive and call a spade a spade. i need it.
this is probably not an ‘oh wow’ for most of you…….but i needed the clarity to say it. it seems to be very muddled in the day to day.
sorry for the ‘chat room’ punctuation……it’s easier.
January 30th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Thanks for your advice Marlene. You sound like you have been through much of what I am going through. I have always had a gut feeling that this is a dark tunnel that we entered 2 1/2 years ago and if I just hang in there long enough we will come out the other end. I looked after an ill parent for 12 years as well as a young child and a couple of teenagers so I had to spread myself rather thin… he never told me that he felt like he was missing out. I guess I thought that as he was the other adult here he could see what was going on. Funny thing is he didn’t have the affair until most of this was over bit said he was really hurt. Maybe he is just using this to justify his behavior!! My h is an athlete and I think his affair is wound up in his self image now he is not performing as well in his sport because he is getting older. This mid life crisis thing is what keeps me there… I am sure he is an adreneline junkie and the affair fed this. So Marlene I will try your tact and just wait it out and build on the positive aspect of our marriage.
Sue … I also can feel so different from one day to another. Some days I am confident and strong and others I feel like ..to hell with all this life is too short to waste another day on him. I don’t think they can even comprehend what we are going through. Even if they are a little confused at least they have the luxury of knowing the truth of where they are at with the affair… ie still in contact with the OP or not.
I have gone a whole week without snooping, feel good about that. Putting a bit of normality back into my life. Told him that I am not going to snoop any more, sick of feeling guilty about doing it. If he is still contacting her and seeing her, he can have that on his consceince at least I know I am not doing the wrong thing.
The thing that I have to come to terms with is that I would do things very differently if I was the one who had the affair, but he is not me and I just have to look at the little things that he is doing to move in the right direction.
Hang in there everyone and thanks for your imput it is all very helpful.
January 30th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Hi all!
Just to let you know, I have not brought up the OP in a while now, and my husband has been in a better mood and more attentive. I am still at that ambivilant stage, not knowing if I want this or not. Not knowing if I am only staying married to him for the kids (I think it’s a huge factor). We are supposed to attend a Superbowl event and I am a tad nervous about it becuase last year the OP was there! And, I had no clue they were having an affair at that time. Looking back, I think they had been starting to flirt, etc and it started shortly after. The possibility of her being there is very low, since he told her never to hang out there again, but she could be bitter since he broke it off with her (again, so he SAYS). I am so afraid of my reaction if she does show up to this party. But, I have every right to be there and want to show her how confident I am, and how much she doesn’t effect me. Any advice if she walks in the door?
January 31st, 2007 at 8:12 am
To Anonymous – here is what I think – first of all it would be best if you and your h planned what to do if she shows up – secondly, if she walks through the door – if I were you, I would try to get myself above it all and rather than give her a fearful or nervous or even angry glance – try to give her a blank look – if you are forced to say hello because it’s awkward not to do so, say it but as if you were speaking to a stranger – not angry, not cold – but neutral and uninterested – my h and the OP do not know that I know what she looks like and think I only know her name – so around the time when he made his intial break with her, and even in the summer when their “friendship” was getting shaky because she was being demanding and he was figuring out that he really wanted me and our marriage, we had to attend a town concert and of course she was there and of course she made sure he saw her – I found out later from him that he was so nervous about what might happen that he almost played sick – then a month or so later, when it was over, he didn’t want to go to another event and take the chance that she would be there and come up to us! Interestingly enough, I don’t think he was worried about what I might do or say anywhere near as much as he was worried that she would come up and basically force an introduction – so the funny part is, if there is any humor in this, that I don’t need to have her pointed out – this is a huge secret of course but it allows me to be more comfortable when I encounter her – the reason I am telling you this is that I think your h may be nervous as well and you may want to sit and talk about it – practice in a mirror (I am not kidding) looking at her as if she were dust or invisible rather than glaring at her – a huge piece of my situation was taking my own power back and not giving her any – she thought she was a pretty powerful force and for a great while she was – but she knew when it was slipping away and she showed her true colors – within the space of three months she went from begging and pleading him not to cut off their friendship to calling him every name in the book because he was decisive about doing so – the message was that “I can be sweet and loving as long as I am getting what I want” – not exactly the foundation for a good love relationship – so if it helps think about it in a power way – good luck!
January 31st, 2007 at 9:45 am
I just thought of something that I wanted to share with the group because you are the only people that can understand how I felt when I saw this – I was in the store looking for a card and saw this collection of cards with big long messages on them – I believe the company is “Blue Mountain” – the messages are not poems but are very schmaltzy, etc, and have an author noted – now this display was annoying to me anyway because back when my h was still in contact with the OP I found a wallet card that she had given to him in his wallet all about how grateful she was to have him in her life, etc. – it really was something you could give to a very good friend not just a lover but to give you a sense of her emotional maturity level, she signed it with her name and drew a little heart next to it – like we all did in 7th grade – mind you if I did anything like this my h would make fun of me but I am sure it was okay for her to do it – anyway among these cards there were several with a “someday we’ll be together” kind of theme – I read a few and one of them actually says something like “I know you are trying to do the right thing now but am waiting until we can be together and be happy, etc.” – now doesn’t that sound like something you would send to your lover as you are waiting for him or her to get out of their situation so they can come and be with you? I felt that it is kind of a slap in the face that now they even have cards for this kind of thing!
January 31st, 2007 at 10:01 am
Hi All!
Marlene – yes that’s what the card sounds like. Speaking of cards, my husband confessed that for his birthday, the OP gave him a card, and I asked him where it was, he said he left it at her house. (convenient). To this day, I want to know what that card said, I want to know if it was one of those long, drawn out love cards, etc. I am sure it was. IT makes me SICK to think about it. Someone else giving MY husband a card.
I am in such a funk lately, quite a depressed state about the affair and I think I am leaning towards leaving. It’s the worst feeling in the world. I never dreamed this would ever come to this. Last night I cried for hours about the feeling I had on our wedding night and I couldn’t bear to think about it. I was SO happy that night and looking back, I could never imagine 10 years later he would cheat on me and profess his love for someone else. I also can’t think about the night our children were born and how much I loved him, and thought he loved me. I was reading something that said, “If a spouse cheats, they cannot truly love their spouse becuase love means respect” Do you agree with this? Do you think they panic when they are caught only becuase they are going to lose their WORLD (package deal: kids, house, etc). Do they really LOVE the person they cheated on? Some say, yes, they can. I am finding it so hard to process to and deal with. I say, no you can’t. I think my H has more remorse for how his cheating effected HIM, instead of ME.
any thoughts welcome.
January 31st, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Hi Liz – I hear you about the birthday card – the way I confirmed my suspicions about my husband’s affair was finding her valentine’s card to him in his briefcase – I still know what it said word for word and that was almost a year ago – he doesn’t know this because I refused to tell him how I “knew” – I told him it didn’t make any difference and it didn’t – after reading that card and reading some of the things he wrote to her, I can tell you a few things that match up with what I have read in books – they ARE living in a fantasy world and they are NOT thinking of the natural consequences – she told him that she was upset about what he might be doing with me for valentine’s day because after all they were the ones who share the love and the passion and couldn’t even be together – if it wasn’t me and him who were involved I would laugh – or vomit. In the email she sent after he broke it off with her she definitely told him that he wasn’t in love with me – that he just didn’t want to give me and our marriage up because we had been together for so long – and of course that is part of the whole picture, how could it not be? But here is the way I think about it – if he really thought that this was the woman of his dreams, as uncomfortable as it would be, he would have gone to her – she certainly wanted him – again the reason I think this is that one of our best friends divorced his wife after 25 years to be with the affair partner – maybe there was no reason other than fear of change or laziness for my husband to stay with me, maybe not – but the ingredient you may be missing is their selfishness – yes, your husband is more concerned about what this did to him than to you – mine was as well for awhile – more than anything they need to develop the empathy for what they did to us – if you don’t mind be being crass, they need to get their heads out of their backsides – the whole affair thing is so tied up in selfishness – “I feel bad about myself and this makes me feel good, even if it hurts you and so because I do still care for you, I will protect you by keeping it a secret” – that is the bill of goods they sell themselves. The thing is – my husband was incredibly selfish, short-sighted, unrealistic, etc – but only I can decide if that was BEHAVIOR or that was CHARACTER – and only you can decide what the cheating meant for your husband and what it means about how you feel about him.
January 31st, 2007 at 2:39 pm
… so funny what you wrote about cards…my spouse sent seven e-cards to the OP in just one day… things that were never said to me were abundantly said to the OP… it hurt a lot to see that, in our marriage my spouse just complained about everything and to the OP there had been spent all the time and money that lacked in our home to the care of our 3 children… felt like garbage…funny too what you said about your wedding, i still can?t watch the DVD… it took 10 years too to destroy that dream… what to do? it can be fixed? will i ever feel ok again? these are million dollars questions.
January 31st, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Marlene, they say there is a hallmark out there for EVERY occasion, why not a cheater and his mistress!!!! I totally think that affairs are so prevalent these days because of television shows, movies and how the media portray them. Look at every tv show that’s on these days. I didn’t realize it until my H and I were watching tv one night and every show we watched had some kind of infidelity in it! Either past or present. They romanticize it sooooooo much. Make it this gut wrenching issue, and make the spouse out to be this horrible person, like “why wouldn’t that guy/girl cheat” I am totally disgusted! As, for the cards, letters, emails, even verbal promises my husband gave the OP, I keep telling myself, they were just words, just words, because he is still with me and if he meant all the things he said and promised her he wouldn’t be here. I have given him EVERY opportunity to hit the road and be with her. Actually, packed his stuff the last time! He always begs to stay and says he can’t imagine life without me and the kids everyday. So what does that say about what he told her in the heat of things? I say yes, he should have thought about that before he did this in the first place, but for those of us whose husbands are sticking it out, I say even if they still miss the OP or whatever, if they are here with us, then what we have must be stronger than what they felt for the OP or they’d have been gone when we confronted them. Either that, or they are all frickin cowards! Maybe I am disillusioned. I don’t know. Stay strong. MS
January 31st, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Hi All!
Thank you Marlene, JMC, and MS.
Today, has been awful. I call it a “crossroads” day where you feel absolutely torn, and feel like you you don’t know whether to stay, or go. Yes, he’s DOING the right things, now, and notice I say DOING. Is it like the surface stroke? It’s like no matter what he does now, it doesn’t feel good enough. I just got off the phone with my friend, who has been amazingly supportive through all this and she knows my H and the OP. She said the second betrayal killed me, and I agree with her. At the time when I needed him and honesty and loyalty the MOST, he let me down. He kept up the affair. I think that is where his love for me will always be in question. Even if he does love me, and doesn’t love her, like he says he doesn’t (now), it’s so hard to think that your H could do this to you. I get more respect from the FEDEX guy at my work, than my own H. Again, I just had a conversation with him at lunchtime and he said, “I don’t know what you want me to do, I tell you I love you everyday, I am not going anywhere, blah, blah, blah” well, mabye I just have to accept the fact, that it isn’t going to be enough. Do I put a timeline on it, or like the therapist and my friends tell me, “you will just KNOW”. And, if all the horrible behavior doesn’t make me know it now, what will? Do I need a rock to fall on my head that says, “you won’t get over this!” ugh. Thanks for the input and understanding. We all have so much in common!!!
I also know a guy, who left one of my good friends for his affair parnter, came home one day, they have 3 kids and he said, “I don’t love you anymore, I am leaving you” he filed for divorce and married his affair. Well, the beauty of that one is, #1, my friend is totatlly over him, has a new boyfriend who is the nicest guy in the world, and #2, her ex got his affair partner pregnant, he lost his job, and they are now living in her parents BASEMENT with the baby! And, to top it off, he owes back child support, and he got a letter to appear in front of the judge. That, is the beauty to me that KARMA is possible. Don’t always see it, but boy do I love stories like that one! Ha!
January 31st, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Marlene – have you ever heard this from your H?
“I am sorry, I can’t say it enough, I can’t take it back, it happened, I can’t take it back!”…….then in the next breath, “but you have to come to a point where you have to MOVE FORWARD and accept what I did and not dwell on this everyday!”……just wondering, cause everytime I tell him how bad it has effected me, I get the above speech.
January 31st, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Oh my God! I have heard everything that Liz said her husband said almost verbatum, and Marlene I heard my H’s own version of what you said about, get over it so we can move on! Well, it’s pretty damn hard to get over when you’ve gone back and forth 7 times and made a fool of me 7 times, and deceived me 7 times and lied to me probable 10,000 times in the past year! So, how do I know that this last time he “talked” to her is really the end, just because he said so???? Well, frankly his WORD means NOTHING to me at this point. How sad for me to say that about my own husband. When will the trust come back? Who knows? Maybe never, but if that’s the case I need to end this marriage. This is my struggle these days. MS
January 31st, 2007 at 8:27 pm
A few thoughts from the one who’s h is living with the op. First of all…..that card is one I could give me h…how about that for a thought!
I saw my new counselor today for the first time and like her very much…it was sooo good and sooo needed. Even though it was mostly history taking, she was able to calm me in that time and make me feel able to stop pressuring myself to make a decision. That is a relief.
I think Marlene is particularly on the money about behavior and character. I struggle with a piece of that, but in my situation his behavior is so painful to us, but his character is what we love….don’t ask me to explain that one further under the current situation…..only that although it seems as if there has been no progress with our relationship, I, and probablyl more importantly, he feel(s) the change strongly. I still hold hope that this will pull us through.
Liz……I truly don’t believe that affairs often say much about how they feel about the other spouse (us). I really think it is a response to some crazy thing or combination of things that are happening for them at that time. I have had the respect line thrown at me a number of times by friends and it confuses me a bit. Although it is painfully clear that this behavior is completely disrespectful, I don’t think that has always characterized how he has treated me and in fact, does not characterize his every action now. And it does not mean I don’t respect myself..as so many think. It means, to me, that I respect marriage, family and the potential this relationship has…..and most importantly, the process (OK….working on that one). It is the ultimate betrayal and each person is different in their morals and belief systems, so each will respond differently to it.(the disrespect and breaking of trust)
I take the cards, gifts, time spent,as part of the ball of wax. When I get down (as I have been the past few days) it is because of the whole ball of wax. Sort of all or nothing thinking….not so good either. Of course, I’m not as far along as you are so I don’t know how I would feel if I had the opportunity to get there.
Liz….his exasperation is probably not a lot different from you feelings. They both come from not being able to control how the other one is feeling and wanting it to be better. I felt this today.
I spent the day nagging at my h like you wouldn’t believe. I just couldn’t stop the string of words that kept coming out of my mouth. All about this ski weekend thing. In the end I managed to shut him down entirely……..and get no results for me. Once I realized this and explained my poor behavior we had a much more productive and pleasant conversation…still don’t have what I want, but am much closer to a compromise that we can all be happy with and I’m not feeling like I want to crawl out of my skin.
Let’s see how I feel after the next conversation in about an hour. I swear I see him and talk to him more now that he doesn’t live here. The kids certainly do……..if we could just transfer the body and keep all the good energy…..
February 1st, 2007 at 7:56 am
Yes I have heard the comment that Liz asked about – “I’m sorry but we need to move on” – that is basically because it makes them uncomfortable to think and talk about how devastating this is – the other thing I heard was that if I brought it up (how I was feeling about the affair and the OP) he would say that it was I who was “bringing her back into our house” not him – sometimes it has helped to suggest that they imagine themselves in our position and how they would feel – same with the trust issue that MS brought up – they say, “but this time I really mean it,” meaning they will not have contact or tell us if they do by chance, etc. Try the Dear Peggy site on the web because she does a good job of explaining what we need as proof and how we need it again and again – so does the book “After the Affair” because it talks about trust-building behaviors for both the person who was unfaithful and the hurt spouse. Here is a line from one of the books I read that I used: “if someone paid you once with a check that bounced, and then paid you a second time with a check that again bounced, would you accept a check the next time? what would you need to see or have the person do before you trusted that this check wouldn’t bounce?” To me, that explains why it is hard to believe them – I realize that this is a more personal issue than getting paid but it’s the same behavioral principle – they want us to have faith but our faith has been shaken badly.
February 1st, 2007 at 5:05 pm
I like the check….will use it.
February 2nd, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Hi All!!
Well, big thing happend to us: the OP contacted my H on his cell phone and said she had something he left at her house, and wondered if she wanted to him to meet up with her so he could get it!! The last time they talked was September! (so he says). Needless to say, he told me about the call and didn’t respond. So…..I CALLED HER and said I could meet her if she wanted (I think she was stunned) and I was very pleasant on the phone! (wanted to rise above her!)and then my husband said, whatever she has, isn’t that important and it’s probably just an excuse to see me, so we both agreed I would call her back and tell her to forget the items and just “toss them”………so far, she hasn’t called again. It really upset me but I am trying to remain calm. Do you think it was an “ice-breaker” so she could see him, or do you think she really wanted to give him his things back? any thoughts welcome!!!!!!!!!!!
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Hi,
I think the fact that she contacted him just put my emotions back to square one. I thought we were out of the woods with being done with the OP and here she comes, with an “excuse” in my opinion to see him. Everyone tells me (friends and family) that she’s trying to test the waters to see if he’s available again, etc….it’s sooo hard. I respect the fact that he told me she called, I respect that he didn’t respond to her, but it still feels like the “never-ending affair!”…..
also, he says I USE the affair now to have power over him, and I use it whenever we argue. He says “all roads lead to my affair”, and he has to be accountable for everything, and I do not. Again, Marlene, have you heard that one also?? ugh. I think I am staying in this for the kids, just don’t know how long I can.
February 2nd, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Hi Liz – I think you handled it beautifully and I do give him credit for telling you – and for not answering – and it’s great that you both problem-solved this together – be sure that you reinforce that without making it seem so fabulous, if you know what I mean – it was the right thing to do, not an extra big favor, but he may need to hear you say that you recognize that he did the right thing for you and for “us” – no surprise she would give it another shot – and I do think that at the least it was an effort to tweak you and/or him – these chicks get really really angry too because they are soooo sure that they have this power over these guys – one thing my H said that does make sense is that he cannot be responsible for what the OP may do, only for what he does – now at first this was a bone of contention between us because he admittedly could not bring himself to be rude or cruel to this poor lady who was battling breast cancer and in the throes of a divorce, boo hoo – and basically I told him that his being nice to her was stringing her along – and I was right – after writing her a letter saying he didn’t want to see her she called him about 10 days later and he did answer – this was back in Sept – perhaps I should have just acknowledged that he told me but I did get angry and told him he should not have picked up – he gave the lame excuse that she called from a number that was not familiar and that he couldn’t be a “monster” and ignore her – that was when I knew we were still in jeopardy but he did write to her again and told her not to call – as I have told you, when they met by chance he stupidly followed up with an email still thinking this could all work – they have got to be able to see that what seems like cruelty to her is what they need to do for us. As for seeing everything through the lens of the affair, yes, I heard that recently from my H – when my son and I were talking about his relationship with his girlfriend and his supposedly platonic interest in another girl, I told my H that I was finding that topic very very hard to deal with – my H replied that we cannot always see everything through the affair – again that is, in my opinion, a defense mechanism – they do want to forget what they did and get it behind them – as far as being accountable? well once again let’s remember who bounced the check – as far as you being accountable – so far, you haven’t killed her or him or yourself (I reminded my H that people have died over things like this) so that’s about as accountable as you should be – a friend told me that in these situations you don’t have to account for anything you do for at least a year – you responded with dignity when she called and acted with dignity when you called her – you ARE being accountable! I know that my H’s OP believed (and hoped) that I would throw him out – because people always think that other people are going to act and react the way that they do – the second that his OP finally heard his rejection, she got ugly – as opposed to me who did not do so even though the reality was that his commitment, legally and ethically, was to me – the OP’s don’t like realizing that they were just not as important as they thought to our H’s, just like we don’t like feeling that we were not important enough to our H’s to keep them from cheating – that’s why it’s so important to be sure you find and keep your own power – in so many ways, it seems like it is our H’s choice – he can’t go wrong, either way he’s got a woman to love him, right? – that’s why you have got to make it YOUR choice to do whatever it is that you decide to do
February 3rd, 2007 at 10:20 am
Hi Marelene,
Just read your post, thank you!
OK, during the summer, the OP made a comment to my H, “you will never leave me” because of course, he kept going back to her! Now that he claims no contact since September, I think she is shocked. It makes total sense, he still continued to cheat with her even after I gave him legal papers so whey wouldn’t she think he would never leave? I think telling him that she had some things of his still (which I think was a ploy, this many months later she just stumbled upon it??)was a way to just “feel him out” and see if she could lure him back again. Yes, I agree that my H handled it well by not returning her phone call and telling me about it. And, I think she was shocked that HE told me about her call! That had to send a huge message that the secrecy between them is over. Now, if she calls again, I honestly don’t know what I would do at that point. As my therapist said, “on your end it feels like the never-ending affair!” and she’s right. I know he has no control, but it’s still horrible thinking another woman will go to any length to see your H! I think about the shoe being on the other foot. I think he would be enraged if some guy I had an affair with was still calling me!! He would not be “calm” like he expects me to be! But, I was proud and I handled myself with dignity. And by being nice to her on the phone (so hard..) I looked like the bigger person, by far. And, the therapist said by me not reacting and getting all upset over the call, gave my H food for thought. If I change, and become more confident about me, he will see this and according to the therapist he will look at me in a different light. He has already made comments that I’ve “changed” and I am such a “strong person”, etc. I think this also bothers him as he has always been a control freak. I think he could easily control the OP and it made him feel good about himself. She totally boosted his ego.
I am hoping she won’t be that brazen and show up at the Superbowl party tomorrow night but I won’t put anything past her at this point. I will try my ablsolute hardest to remain calm and confident! It’s just that I haven’t physically seen her since the affair so it might shock me unexpectedly. But, then again, she might be afraid to show up especially since he denied her call and gave it to me!! I’ll keep you posted!
February 3rd, 2007 at 10:42 am
Liz – I totally agree that once the OP realizes that your H has been telling you things about her and the secrecy kind of collapes, that is the sign to them that they are losing or have lost their grip – this was very well explained in the book “NOT Just Friends” – my H’s OP was furious when he told her that he had told me all about what happened when they saw each other one time in early August – they had met for coffee and to talk and she asked to kiss him and he said no – she followed up with an email apologizing and saying that she knew that the intimacy between them was over but did it anyway and knew he would reject her but was feeling like he didn’t find her attractive anymore, blah, blah – she said that telling me made her look pathetic – well, if the shoe fits – if this chick shows up at the party, just keep thinking what a manipulative and lame attempt she made to feel out where your H’s head is on all of this – and give her the attention she deserves, which is none – and although it doesn’t really matter, because he is with YOU, be sure you look good if for no other reason than it will give you confidence – good luck, I’ll be thinking of you..
February 3rd, 2007 at 11:45 am
Marlene-
Yes, I think it had to have blown her mind that he told me about the voice mail. She was probably hoping against hope that he would jump at the opportunity to meet her. I guess I also expected my H to act a little more “upset” about the contact. He didn’t seem too upset and I don’t know why that bugs me so bad! I just wanted him to show more anger I guess. Which of course makes me think that a part of him was glad to hear her voice? and I will never know what his TRUE feelings are about her. That’s the part that hurts!
Yes, I plan on going and looking my best and having fun. I hope she doesn’t show, but if she does, it will speak volumes of her intentions. He asked her never to go there again. (he also asked her never to leave a voice mail, and we see that didn’t last!)
Have a great weekend and thanks for your support on this! It’s so hard emotionally for me and nobody understands this better than you and everyone else!
February 3rd, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Hi Liz… good luck with the Superbowl party, just remember you are a much better person than she could ever be. Hold your head high, she wears all the shame and guilt.
Marlene, thanks for your posts they are so helpful. I took on board what you said about characteristic and behavior. It has made me look at things in a different light.He has made a big mistake in the way he has behaved and this is not a characteristic of him. Things have been really good the past week. I have been focusing on me and stopped snooping through his things. This has given me a huge amount of freedom… didn’t realise how much time and energy all this was taking up. I don’t think he is contacting the OP. He seems more relaxed than he has been in years and is actually doing some things for himself. His life must have been awful… running around trying to have a secret affair and really not having any time to persue anything else he was interested in. If he is not seeing or contacting her maybe he also is experincing a new freedom as well. I guess I have just stopped playing his game and it is no fun playing on your own.
I have written a list of things I want to do this year and have started actioning some things, this came as a bit of a surprise to him…. think it made him realise that I can create a life for myself.
This change in the way I am looking at the situation is probably worth giving a try. It has made a big difference in just a week.I am feeling more positive about my life no matter what way it goes. So far this week he has been more affectionate, taken me to a concert as a surprise, spent a day just doing things we enjoy and he has been home from work early. I have felt comfortable with everything although I have moments when I feel anxious but I keep these to myself or share them here. I guess out of all that I have tried, giving up the snooping has been the best thing for me. If the affair is still going on I will eventually find out and will be just ready to move. He knows this is his last chance. in the meantime I am working on project fun!!
Take care of yourselves everyone and create something in your lives to look forward to. Even if it is just a walk in the park with a friend once a week.
February 4th, 2007 at 12:13 am
I take a walk in the park a few times a week with a friend and our dogs. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to repay her for her kindness. It is a life saver….which, on many mornings, keeps me from crawling back into bed. Work does to, but the walks are better.
I had many happenings this week that two counseling sessions (indiv and couples) put together in a light that needed to happen. Your notes pound the point home even further.
First of all, the deadlines don’t work. They are false and therefore make it impossible to follow through despite the feelings leading up to them.
Secondly, and more importantly, I have been told (and was close to coming to it on my own) that this is like (if not actually is) an addiction. My h has to deal with his own issues on his own. I have to stop ‘helping’ him…..read enabling. He asks me to keep telling him what I think ‘it’ is, but then I am putting thoughts and ideas in his head that may not be true. I am not focusing on me. I am draining my energy trying to save him and our marriage in a way that might ultimately hurt it.
I think all of our behaviors…..which are totally justified, mind you…….tend to take the focus off of us (spying, wondering, etc.). When we can focus on us we are happier, they are happier and they find us more appealing. It all makes sense, but is oh so hard to do.
I am hoping that this new road will lead ‘us’ somewhere good. But, at least for now, I’ve taken the pressure off of myself to make a decision. That is a relief. I’m not great right now, but I feel on the edge of making another major step forward for me and that is better than making any step back.
He’s trying for himself and that keeps me ‘in the game’ for the moment. It all still hurts so much, but I am getting better at focusing on me in the now…not the past or the future. My slips seem to take less time to get out of. I wish they would just stop! I wish it would all just stop. But I do believe the light will continue to get brighter somehow on the whole. It may be very hard to see in the dark moments and days, but I will keep with this blog and the chat room….counseling and talking to friends…..until there is a resolution for me.
Many thanks to all of you for continuing to share. Selfishly, it helps me so much.
February 4th, 2007 at 3:15 am
I agree with the addiction even my h has said that. I haven’t been able to get him to couples counseling and I have given up on suggesting it, I feel that he just needs to sort his own stuff out. My therapist told me that I am too good at fixing things for everyone and just to back off and give him ownership for what he has done. He will make the appointment when he is ready, maybe that will come when he is able to face himself.
My h has been out for the day with some of his friends, I have felt fine about it all day but for some reason I am feeling anxious now as it is nearing the time he is due home. I guess it is because this is when he would just add a bit of time to his outings so he could spend some time with the OP. I don’t know if I should say something to him or not. Maybe I should just say that I feel anxious when it gets to this time and can he think of any way to help me trough this. I guess these are the little things that need to be done to show me that things are different this time, otherwise again we are not communicating our true feelings.
You will have your good days and bad days Sue, just enjoy the good ones and don’t dwell on the bad ones.
February 4th, 2007 at 9:29 am
Sue, Jessi, Marlene and All -
Wow, we all seem to be getting a little better with all of this. Yes, it is still VERY hard, and will be for a long time, but we all seem to have outlets that are helping us. For the first time, I have been working out. I think I mentioned I used to weigh 50 pounds heavier! My goal is to run a half marathon by next year. I would NEVER have done this, had my H had an affair. I think I started to exercise to let off “steam” and it worked! And…he notices big time that I am not curled up in a ball, crying over him. He got the direct opposite reaction – I took notice of ME and my health, and said to heck with the two of them (even though inside, I was dying….) Sue, I think i have become much more appealing to him now and I demand so much more respect. And he knows this!!
Jessi – I quit snooping also. I got to a point, where I just couldn’t care to do it. If I see obvious signs of cheating, then I will investigate further, etc. if my GUT is strong, I will check it out for my own benefit. So far, I haven’t had to do this. And it feels good!
I am starting to visualize two lives for myself: one with him, and one without him. I am trying to accept either outcome and know I can be happy on my own, or happy that he saw the light and decided to make this work with me and the kids. I think I am getting better prepared now because I put so much energy into obsessing about him and the OP, that I never gained any ground on my healing. Now, I look at the OP as an insecure, pathetic individual, whom I would never want to be in a million years! And…if she does go to the party tonight, you are right, I can hold my head up high. She looks like a FOOL!
February 4th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Good on you Liz… I ran a half marathon last year for the first time and now got my sights set on a marathon. All that you said is so true. One thing we can thank the OP for is giving us the opportunity to become totally awsome people who are in charge of their own happiness while they hang around waiting for some guy to leave their family and all they have worked so hard to establish and live a half life(truth be known if they do end up together she will always get the blame in his mind for robbing all his securirty from him) . Rather be in my shoes. Out of the three of us in this triangle I would say I am in the best place because I know I will be okay with him or without him.They won’t even have the chance to explore themselves.
Have fun tonight you will radiate self esteme and shine.
February 5th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Hi all – Liz, hope the Superbowl party was good. I did want to say something about the comment someone made re holding your head up high – ironically, when my h’s OP wrote him her last email (after he said he couldn’t ever be in contact with her again) she wrote that SHE could hold her head up high because she was ridding her life of toxic people and he had become one of them! She also made a comment about his manipulating her. Isn’t it interesting how she took zero responsibility? Talk about a defense mechanism ….
I am starting to pull away from snooping as well – you are all correct – doing that prolongs the obsession with the affair and the OP – I think that we do it to gain control over the situation because we lost so much control while it was going on – my therapist, whom I saw on Saturday, and I were talking about this and he talked about “acceptance” – he didn’t mean that anyone should tolerate an inappropriate situation but said that progress can mean that we can not only accept what happened but also that we are and will be okay no matter what happens.
As for the OP’s – I agree that they are probably less well off at the moment and that they have, in a very painful way, helped us learn some good lessons about ourselves, etc. According to my h, a couple of times when he was in the process of cutting her off, she offered to speak to me and to assure me that all she wanted to do was to be friends with him and that she wouldn’t threaten our marriage – he told her he didn’t think that would be a good idea – the fact that he didn’t take her up on that offer was probably the biggest shock to her because what she was offering was a possible way to continue their contact – when he refused the offer, it let her know that what he really wanted was to be totally free of her – that I think is the OP’s worst blow – because if our h’s did end up leaving us for them, the contact with us would have to continue in some way, due to kids, etc – at least for awhile – but the OP’s can really “disappear” from our husbands’ lives and basically have to in order for the marriages to survive – I don’t feel sorry for them – they took a risk and it didn’t pay off for them.
Sue – I found your comments re the deadlines interesting – I think the reason we set them is because we are just trying to look to a time when we are out of this pain – unfortunately it’s a process – I did set deadlines in my head and never shared them with him but since I was able to see progress as they approached I didn’t have to act –
Jessi – I also know that I am a “fixer” and it’s hard to step back and let them fix themselves, but we have to – the weird thing is that my h is a fixer as well! I can empathize with your feelings about being nervous when he was out – I am coming up in the next two weeks with the “anniversary” of my finding out and it is a difficult time for me because I have flashbacks – I am trying to dwell on how much better off I am now than I was a year ago when this was all hitting but I too have debated about telling him that I need some extra TLC right now – I am afraid that if I bring it up it will again seem to him like I am dredging up the past and not focusing on the present and future – any thoughts?
February 5th, 2007 at 9:39 am
Jessi – good luck on the full marathon! If I make a HALF, I will be amazed. Ha!! It’s not easy! I my best friend ran her first full marathon, and I was there to cheer her on and it gave me inspiration. And, it was not even 2 weeks after I found out about the affair, so I really was in bad shape emotionally but watching her run made me feel like I could do it too.
Jessi – I think you are right that if they do end up together at some point, he will always view her as someone who ruined his life, family, house, security, blah, blah……they want these people for FUN! That’s what an affair is….FUN! NOT commitment, or they wouldn’t have an affair, they would just LEAVE in the first place. Sometimes I think they assume they can have BOTH for as long as they want (at least I think my H had this mindset….keep two lives going for as long as he wanted) but what they forget to realize is how many people they are effecting besides their spouse. The ripple effect is enormous! Then they have to get on the defense because they can’t believe thier little escapade caused so much damage due to their SELFISHNESS. At least that’s where I know my H is at….
Well, she didn’t show up at the Superbowl party after all. YEAH! I was ready and confident the whole evening. I think she was trying to test the waters last week by contacting my H and since I returned the call for him, it probably sent her the message that he didn’t want to see her or have anything to do with her. At least that’s all I can hope at this point.
I have a meeting with my therapist tonight because I am really in a bad place with her calling him last week. It confirmed all the fears that I had that she wouldn’t “give up on him” and just when I thought she was out of the picture, she emerged once again, 4 months after he told her never to call again! And, I don’t know if this was a one-time deal but now I can’t help think that she’s plotting her next move. UGH. The therapist says, “its all about her, and not your and your H” but even thought I know this, it doesn’t make it any easier.
February 5th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Liz again – had a very bad phone call with my H. I told him I was very upset about the OP calling last week and he got very defensive. I told him that I thought the OP clearly didn’t get the message about no contact and I asked him if he could please make a conference call to her with me there asking her to NEVER call again. Well, he got all mad and said, “we need to let sleeping dogs lie!”…..and I said that didn’t make me feel comfortable. He said he would NOT make the call, and I could make it with the therapist instead of him! Talk about lack of support. I got upset and told him he “created this monster, etc” and he said, “guess I did!”…….then he went on to say that I can make a choice to “end this” (meaning the way the affair has effected me). I told him it’s not that easy when your ex-girlfriend calls 4 months later! UGH. I feel horrible, like he thinks I am over reacting and he has no patience with me. Which, makes it worse because then I get bitter that he just wants me to “get over it”!
Then he said, “what happened TODAY that was so bad that you had to call me during the middle of the day with this??” I said, “Iam calling you for SUPPORT becuase it upsets me!”
Instead, I get a defensive jerk.
Any thoughts?
Marlene – I know what you mean about the anniversary because about this time last year, I noticed things were bad and that’s when the affair was going on, or just starting. So, this time of year is very painful for me. And, my H thinks I should “LOOK AHEAD”…..they just don’t get it do they??
February 5th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Glad all went well at the Superbowl Liz. The anniversary of finding out is always hard, mine is around Christmas so it always takes the shine off Christmas for me. Had a good session with my therapist yesterday.. we were talking about dealing with anxiety and how to let him know how I am feeling without making him defensive. She said when my head was spinning with all sorts of thoughts to go and sit somewhere by myself or go for a short walk and verbalise things out loud because that makes you put the thoughts into some sort of order. Had one of those moments when his cell phone bill arrived last night. He wouldn’t open it in front of me and he has put it away somewhere so I guess it had all the calls on it he made to her around Christmas time. I told him this made me feel anxious and that I hope he doesn’t have to hide the next one.
I managed to tell him that thhe times this happens are when he is within an hour of being due home from work or somewhere as these are the times he would see her as well as when the phone bill arrives. I also told him that as I am letting the wall down around me I am feeling more vulnerable. He tried to become a bit defensive but I just said that these are things I need to tell you, I am not asking you to justify what your every move today…. just listen. Gave him the cheque story and I think that helped him understand. When he left for work this morning he said I seemed a bit funny… I just said that I will be okay it is just a time thing.
Marlene, I to get the flashbacks but they are becoming less. I also find it hard to say anything about asking for any extra TLC what gets at me is that they caused all the pain and we are the ones that are treading on egg shells so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. Although things are not perfect I too am in a better place than this time last year, and the timeframe thing doesn’t work for me either. It is a process and you will only know the right time when it hits you without doubt.
The other thing that my therapist said is that I am so much further along this process than he is so as you say you just have to wait it out. A time must come when they start questioning themselves. Lets face it it can’t be that much fun having to be under so much stress to keep the relationship with the OP hidden and have someone demanding to see you in what little spare time you have and not having any time for yourself. After over 2 years this must be doing his head in as well.
Marlene it is hard focusing on the future when something brings up those emotions you felt when the affair was in full swing. Sometimes I just spend a couple of minutes writting down my feelings in a journal then put it away.
Thanks for your comments everyone they are very helpful.
Liz.. keep up with the training, it gave me so much confidence to finish the half marathon, I felt that I could get through anything.
February 5th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Hi Liz – no they don’t get it – I am not surprised by his reaction but I know that you are disappointed with it and understandably so – now if this were my H, and it could easily be, he would also be saying that he would not make the call with me there because it would be rubbing the OP’s nose in the fact that he chose his marriage over her, that he would feel like “mommy” (in other words, me) is making him do something,yada, yada – perhaps a continuing attempt to protect her – what is really going on? maybe your H is afraid – afraid of how she will react (will she go nuts and then you get to see this “wonderful” person who was so great that he cheated on you with her act like a maniac?)- maybe your H is afraid of what she will say with you there to hear it – maybe he doesn’t like being reminded of the monster he created and feels like he has “fixed it” as well as he could and that it isn’t his fault that she did what she did – I had these conversations with my H this summer when he finally started to pull away from the OP – I was able to confiscate an email she wrote in late July and I confronted him with it and told him that it showed me very clearly that 1) this woman doesn’t GET IT and that 2) she really DOES NOT WANT to be his “friend” – there was all this utter nonsense about his being the only thing in her life that made her happy, etc. – I told my H that any friend that either of us has also needs to be a friend of our marriage (not necessarily our personal friend too, but a friend of the marriage) and this woman could clearly never play that role – she would always be “taking” him away at some level from our marriage and she wanted that – so – maybe you and your H can talk again and maybe compromise – you can certainly tell him that you know he cannot be responsible for what she does and that he cannot control her – your issue is that you don’t know what message he is giving to her – how clear is it, is he being “nice” because he doesn’t want to be cruel and therefore inadvertently leading her on? – I talked a lot to my H about “how women think” and that seemed to help him see that he needed to be clearer even if he felt like a villain – last ditch effort? ask him to even try to imagine for a nanosecond what this would be like if the tables were turned – how would he feel? what would he need to feel supported? I have read and heard a lot about asking the spouse to talk to the OP with you there so you can hear what they say so I don’t think your request is at all unreasonable – I empathize with you though because I can envision my H balking as well and I don’t think you should equate it with his not caring – the weird thing about my situation is that he told me that he would show me the email he sent to her to tell her that he needed to cut off all contact – when he came home that day from work and told me he had sent it and how she responded by showing up at his school, etc., he did not offer to show me the email and I didn’t ask – but he did make a hardcopy of it and left it in his briefcase where I saw it – I sometimes feel as if he gave me some credit for not asking him and believing that he really did say what he said he did – and he did because he wrote exactly what I would have hoped he wrote – and mind you I have not completely ruled out that it could be a hoax and a cover up – if she comes out of the woodwork like your H’s OP did I would be upset as you are but would try hard not to blame him and keep talking about what I needed – your H wants to move forward, sure, so do you – but each of you has the right to communicate with the other what you need to do that – hope your therapist can help!
February 5th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Marlene…..wise words. Hard to give ourselves credit for what we want and believe they are trying as well. It’s all OK on some level, but to integrate those thoughts and feelings can be very difficult at best. I am trying to do as you say….it makes sense to me as well. When I can pull it off, honestly, it has rewards. We are just so far in the muck of it that it is even harder to make it work. But we are both trying and I have to believe that counts for a lot……not just something, but a lot.
Liz and Jessi…..hang in there. You both seem to be on a good path on the whole but the day to day is a trip. I think that is symptomatic of the whole situation. If we all can keep sight of ourselves in the process we will end up in the process where we need to be.
Soooo looking forward to counseling on Thursday!
keep writing…..i’m reading……..
February 6th, 2007 at 10:15 am
Hi all, I too am reading. Just haven’t posted. Been in a funk as of late so even writing hasn’t relieved any of my anxiety. Went to my doctor and he gave me an antidepressant, xanax and a medication for my stomach as I now have an ulcer to top it all off! Things have been quiet here. Trying not to talk about the affair too much. Our counselor wants us to limit talk about it to once a week plus our session with him. He is trying to get us to focus on us and not the affair anymore. He says that my H says it’s over and I either need to believe him and focus on our relationship and make it stronger or get stuck in a place that could end the marriage by reliving it daily and push him further away. He also told my H that if he is lying and still having contact with the OP, it will end my marriage. He needed to be clear about that. Anyway, we go to counseling on Thurs. Then he is leaving for a business trip til Friday evening. I read all your posts and wish I could respond, just am having a hard time writing these days. Still reading though. Take care, MS
February 6th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Hi Everyone – Marlene, that was a great post! He told me on the phone that he wants to let “sleeping dogs lie”. which says to me that he is afraid of her reaction! Or, like you said, she will get mad and say way more on the phone than he bargained for! I agree 100%. I also know that if it was me who had the affair, to the extent that he did…he would be GONE! I have no doubt of this, because I told him, “you know, I could have as easily had an affair as you did, etc.” and he yelled, “what’s your point!!”..ha! Think he can’t bear to hear that…so that’s why I don’t think he can put himself in my shoes, becuase his tolerance for this would have died at this point (if it were me, of course!)
I also think she called because it is the anniversary of when they started talking and hanging out and a part of her cannot believe he hasn’t caved and called her.
I also think he wants her to just “go away” and have no confrontation with her becuase #1 he hasn’t told his family the whole truth! and #2, she looks needy and like a stalker now, and it blows his image of her that he was trying to portray to me! It makes him look like a fool for picking someone like her. Then again, who dates married people? Mainly insecure ones if you ask me.
Sue – good luck and let us know how counseling goes!
February 6th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
Liz – exactly! once the OP starts to resemble Glenn Close in “Fatal Attraction” the H realizes how stupid he is going to look for latching onto someone like that – my H did exactly what yours did – I had to hear how wonderful she was from him and how life had dealt her such tough blows – and had to read that he wrote to her that she was the nicest person he had ever met – it’s all a big mirror – if the OP’s were so fabulous and loved our H’s enough to have an affair, even though they were married to us, “just couldn’t help themselves, etc” doesn’t that mean our H’s must be some kinda wonderful guys? but when the OP starts acting not so wonderful, what reflection does that have on our H’s? she said stuff I would never in a million years say to anyone and before that she was pathetic and begging – one thing my H said that meant a lot to me was that he has always respected me a great deal and although he felt lousy about himself because of what he had done and all the pain he caused, he guesses that if I still am willing to love him, maybe he’s not such a bad guy – mirrors again – MS – I think what your therapist said was great – although our doubts will always haunt us there comes a time that in the absence of evidence we have to start believing – I love what he said to your H aboutlying – I too have been on an antidepressant since April – I have xanax and intially took that pretty regularly but stopped a few months ago – and I too had some stomach issues that sent me to the doctor (not an ulcer) – I will tell you that when I came home and told my H that the doctor said it was most likely stress, that made him stop and think – there has to be a balance, though – our H’s cannot go on feeling so terrible about themselves for what they did that they cannot love and be loved – but they cannot forgive themselves too easily so that they ignore the pain they caused
February 6th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Hi all … MS my therapist said something similar when I asked her how I should handle the cell phone bill. I had already said to my h that I know there are calls on it that you don’t want me to see because you can’t show it to me and hope you don’t have to hide the next one, therefore I had already acknowledged that I know so there is no point in draging up the past as that has already happened. Just focus on the future. He knew I was having a bad day as he mentioned it before he left for work… all I said was that it was a time thing and I am working through it. He was very different when he got home from work very affectionate, I got the feeling that he was trying to reasure me in his own way. I didn’t mention the phone bill and we had a pleasant evening. My therapist said that it would be confronting enough for him to look at the bill and see the evidence of all the lies he has told me and now that we seem to be making some positive steps it would make it even worse for him. To say anything might undo all the steps forward at this stage. I asked her why is it that he is the one that had the affair and I am the one that has to walk on eggshells so as not to upset the apple cart. Her response was that is generally how it is and reading all the posts here is sounds like that is so. That is because we are all so further ahead than they are. If I was the one that was having the affair I would be finding it harder and harder to leave when my partner is being so supportive and forgiving, I would be looking at them and wondering what possessed me to do such a thing to hurt them so much.
Yesterday I could have walked away but today I feel different
February 7th, 2007 at 11:10 am
Gosh, we all seem to be in the same boat of asking ourselves, “how much of this can we take, etc?” it’s so hard!!
Marlene – I think he’s totally embarrassed that the OP called and it makes him look like a fool for getting hooked up with her. I just can’t help but think she’s going to start following him like Glen Close.
Jessi – I hate the eggshell feeling. The therapist would always say, “watch your timing on when to bring up the OP and the affair” and I would think “my timing? like I need to be sure it’s A-OK to talk about the pain and lies at the APPROPRIATE time?? When did he consider MY TIMING when he was with her for 6 months and left me and the kids to fend for ourselves?? UGH. Was he considering that he was using bad TIMING?Why do they get to be pampered emotionally? I still don’t get that. I guess it’s all part of this chaos.
At least the last 2 days have been good for us. I’ve been trying to FOCUS…It’s a day-to-day thing and will be for a very long time.
Sue, how did this week go???
February 7th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Liz,
I recently found these boards and am jumping in here from Infidelity Quickie #5. I have read all the posts here and I am loving the support and understanding you all have for each other.
I totally get what what you are saying about being advised about “right timing”! At my insistence, and as a condition of staying married to my H after accidental discovery of his lies and infidelities, he started therapy on his own to help him sort through and “own” his stuff. I instinctively felt that there was “us” without him taking responsibility for what was “his” without blurring the lines with what was “mine”. To make a long story short, after a few sessions with his therapist, I was called in to, no doubt, help his therapist flesh out the whole story. Made sense to me and was fully expecting it. Yet, what happened after I got there was not expected! After an hour of sharing I told him that I was nearing the end of my rope and was contemplating a divorce. He said, “You can’t do that. It would devastate your H.” Say what?? What about me? I continued to support my H’s visits with the guy, but made it clear I saw no need for me to go again since he seemed his advocate. I then reached a point were I thought it was necessary for me to find a therapist of my own. My H shared that with his therapist and his answer was…?? “I don’t think it’s a good idea to have dueling therapists?” Dang! (now mind you I am relying my H’s version of what was said. It may or may not be true) I am very careful now to be sure that I am not further “victimized” by choosing “helping” professionals who do not take my needs in to account. Know what I mean?
February 7th, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Nicki!
Wow. Great advice! I can relate to you! To make a long story semi-short..ha!
My husband started seeing a therapist first when I first discovered his affair and I filed for divorce. Then we BOTH saw her together during couple’s therapy. THEN…. I used her for individual therapy for MYSELF. I think it was good and bad. The bad part is she knew him BEFORE she knew me and he came off like this great guy who just “slipped and was impulsive and had an affair.. etc”. (He can be very charming and manipulative) I think he’s a total narcissist now (after reading about narcissism, I almost died… he fits so many of the traits, ei:lack of empathy, verbal abuse, lack of sense of humor, poor “gift giver”, belittles own children to make himself look better, highly critical of others, perfectionist in his or her work..need I go on?) BUT he’s very charming! And that’s why I feel for him and married him years ago. But…the therapist only knows HIS side of what he reveals to her! His best side! UGH. I think I need a new therapist who does not know my husband, and only works with me. your thoughts?
February 7th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Liz,
My humble opinion is that if you aren’t sure if the therapist is totally impartial, then I see nothing wrong with you finding your own therapist. I am all about getting the answers I need and being 100% supported while I do so. Before the affairs it was always about H. NO MORE. It’s all about me now! And, if talking to someone who doesn’t know my H gives me a perspective I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise (of me and/or him) then I am going for it. Oddly enough, the offending spouse creates the wound, but it we are totally responsible for our own healing.
And I am laughing at your comments about narcissism. In my quest for “logical explantations” *I also looked for mental illness issues and confirmed to be horror that he fits the description to a “T”. (except he doesn’t rage. He sulks) It is unbelievable how clear it is now! My H is a classic, charming, bs peddler :-) It is easy for them to make us seem we are the crazy ones, isn’t it?
February 7th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
HI all. THis week has been good so far…who knows why?! I’ve been confident and focused on me and, believe it or not, happy. OK…..three days of it….but that feels good. He can’t seem to spend enough time here. Counseling for both of us..individual….tomorrow and couples on Friday.
My h is on his 5th counselor……and really should be. The others were awful. THis one finally seems to be a match. And, if truth be told by him, she seems to be clear and objective about me as well….mirroring back to him behaviors, reactions and feelings. All good.
I do believe you need someone on your own who is not connected to the rest. I’ve had a couple of flops as well, but love this new one. As I said last week, she is direct and empathic…bright as well……nice combo.
My h’s biggest problem is probably that we (the kids and I) aren’t buying any of the BS…..and we tell him every time. It is getting rare now, but that leaves him a bit lost. Always surprised that we can take the truth better than the BS. He always thought (and still sometimes thinks) that he was protecting us. Read……control. Of course, he didn’t see it that way. But the two counselors are beginning to get that through to him. It has helped a lot so far. Mind you……I have my own control issues and this is a tough one. But we are doing well with it despite the current living arrangement.
On which note……I am actually doing OK doing nothing this week……so far. It is a new feeling to just let things ‘be’ for the moment. I went to yoga this am for the first time in a year. It all feels so much better.
You will all know the moment the house of cards falls……tonight, tomorrow, or next week. It will fall. But hopefully I’ll be able to rebuild farely quickly…….all part of the growth.
Thanks for all the comments….keep them coming. They account for a lot of why I have been OK these past three days.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
Liz I am working with my own therapist so we can deal with my issues and focus on how I am feeling. He has seen someone twice and only once on his own. When we went together and the therapist heard where I was comming from he seemed to have so much empathy for my situation as the last 12 years I was looking after an ill dementing mother as well as everything else that was going on in my life. His comment to me was that I sure had to spread myself thin without much support. I don’t think this was what my h wanted to hear and this together with a few other things that were said might be why I can’t get him to go back to counceling. Don’t think he got the result he wanted!!! Anyway, much better to work on yourself and let the marriage take care of itself… if it doesn’t work out at least you are well on the way to healing yourself and don’t need anyone else to heal you which is very empowering. Just think how weak the OP is… she needs to make demands on your h because she is not a whole person in herself. How much more attractive are you now not only to your h but to anyone else!!! Self asured, no baggage, know how to handle yourself when you get anxious, can stand tall and proud, respect the value of marriage and family. To me that sounds a better propostion than a nagging OP that is trying to pull you away from your family and everything that you have built up togetther. Besides if you do decide to walk away that will make his loss even greater because he will also loose this awsome person you have grown into.
Find a good therapist that you feel comfortable and work on you, you are the most important person in your life and the only one you can trust. The last two weeks have been so different here. I have had one or two bad days but all of a sudden he is faced with this person who is (appering) enjoying life and finding so many things to look forward to.( Some times I have to fake it not going to let him see when I am not that great) Sometimes I think he is is wondering if I am going to stay, seems to be a lot more attentive getting home from work earlier and letting me know where he is when running a bit late.
My therapist said it is a bit like Skinner’s rats (rat being an appropriate comparrison) Now I have to train him to be like I want him to be and give a reward for nearly getting it right. Things like saying ” I really appreciate the way you are (whatever) and I am working on dealing with things, I still tend to get anxious when eg you get home late on Wednesday nights because that is when you would meet her after work but I am developing ways to get over that.” Tried it last week and on Weds he rushed home to catch me before I left for work. So it is my game now!!! Worth a try.
I find these bloggs a great way to clear my head and it is so helpful to see that what is going on here is the same for others, ie the eggshells. I thought it was just him but it appers to be a result of his behavior and is the same way others who have had affairs behave. It also means that I don’t have to spend so much time talking to friends about things that they really cannot understand so can’t give any constructive help.
Liz I know how you feel about the Glenn Close thing.. I feel the same, I think the OP is a weak character, after all if she had any confidence in herself she wouldn’t have let someone dangle her on a string for over 2 years… I know if it was me I would have moved on as I wouldn’t have had anythng to loose. My biggest fear is that she won’t let go and will wear him down one day.
Take care everyone… each day you get stronger and stronger.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Truly…this has been a long and winding road. A two year journey for me and counting. My H kept this side of himself very well hidden from me. (and this is a 27 year marriage– so either he was really good at hiding or I was really good at looking the other way. Likely a little bit of both)Probably the best piece of advise from my therapist was : “Keep a journal so you can look back and see clearly where you’ve been, where you are, and then maybe see where you are going” It has helped me alot!
February 8th, 2007 at 7:59 am
I agree about getting someone for YOU. My H won’t go to therapy – he’s stubborn, doesn’t believe in it, etc. – my therapist is a marriage and family therapist and would be happy to see us both but since he sees only me he is very clear that I am his client and my well-being is his priority – the psychiatrist who manages my meds says the same thing – my H is very aware of that and if we talk about what they have said, it’s interesting to see how he responds – after his relapse email contact in November, I told him that my psychiatrist said that I am too patient, have given him too many chances and questioned if that was the case because it is just how I am or if it was the approaching holidays, etc – when I told him this I also said that, after all, I am this guy’s client and it’s his job to take care of me – my H said that he understood that but to tell the doctor that he has resumed his role in protecting me – he doesn’t think he ever really stopped – of course, his way of protecting me from his affair was to keep it a secret which is very dysfunctional thinking – but I thought his response was interesting – it was almost like he didn’t like the fact that there are these two guys who have to move in and help me heal from something he did
February 8th, 2007 at 10:12 am
My H is on his 2nd therapist. This one is a “take no prisoners” kind a gal. He comes home looking like something the cat dragged in. But she asks him questions that he must answer. Questions like: Why are you still married? His answer? “Because I don’t want to disappoint/hurt anyone”. She asks, “And you think that you haven’t hurt them already?” For my own sanity, I eneded up having to separate “me”, “him”, and “us”. I believe strongly that there is nothing between 2 people if there is no trust. I asked that we try and build a friendship first and see what happens. Again, the building blocks to a great marriage are built on a strong healthy friendship. And if we can’t be friends we have no business being married. (as I define marriage anyway!) My parents have been married for 52 years. My mother would like to propose a law that goes like this: “Marriages are only good for 25 years. They automatically dissolve at that point and the partners either renew the vows or thank each other for the time spent together and move on.” I am completely with her! lol
February 8th, 2007 at 11:11 am
Hi All -
Just had a bad nigth/morning but didn’t let my H onto this. I was crying and thought to myself, “I can’t go on like this daily, I can’t be in a marriage where I have zero trust, etc.” I know for a fact that the OP’s phone call set me back mentally. It feels like I took tiny baby steps for 4 months to get the tiniest amount of stability and trust and her call just shattered it. A part of me thinks, “was that her plan? did she lie awake nights knowing that if she called, it would perhaps make us fight, possibly divorce, etc? Then I think, who is this evil? But, the only proud thing is I haven’t let my H see this side of me. He has no clue. Thank GOD I can share this with you all. This is the most amazing support I have ever found.
Jessi – ironically, Wednesday nights are a huge trigger for me as well. My husband has meetings every Wednesday evening…and he would come home at 1:00 a.m. afterward (when he was in the affiar) and would lie and say he had drinks with the guys afterwards. Now, after the meetings, he’s been coming right home on time…BUT last night he came home at 11:45, said he had 2 drinks, and I almost died. Then, this morning, I tried calling him on his cell phone and it went right into voice mail. His story, “it was on the charger”……(heard that one before)….and he just called me and said, “you don’t seem OK? I love you, etc” and I said, “I am fine!”….(don’t want him to see the insecurity).
If he is doing something behind my back, I have to be prepared emotionally. I can never let that nightmare ruin my health, my parenting, my overall “being”. And, he might be doing nothing wrong, but my therapist says always go with your “gut” and watch “actions”.
Do anti-depressants help with all of this? Do they really make an impact on your emotions? I was considering this but never have taken them (probably should, my dad is on Cymbalta and it works!)…thanks for the support!
February 8th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
Liz,
My H’s OP still emails and calls even after he has said “no more”. And it’s almost 2 years now. And he still engages her, chit chats politely and then tells her, “Really. No more. This time I mean it.” The last time he did it was 3 weeks ago. Then, when I confronted him,he admitted it & would like a gold star because he didn;t lie to me this time. I was merely going on a hunch, but I was right. So, listen to your therapist. Don’t ignore your gut feelings. In my H’s case, his therapist told him that he is addicted to his fantasy and “it is harder to let go of the fantasy than it is to let go of reality”. (and since I am “reality”, I can only conclude that this will go on and on and on…) Like an alcoholic is always an alcoholic, so too the fantasy addicted until they are ready to give it up. I give up thinking that this will get better and it seems that has allowed me a way off of the emotional roller coaster ride. I see clearly what is before me now and, at least for the 3 weeks since the call, I have been able to cope because I am no longer expecting honesty so there’s no way he can disappoint me now.
Of course the OP knows him as a kind, caring, emotionally avaiiable guy. She does not know that those are the tricks of his trade, so-to-speck. He baited her, pure and simple. Now, after 2 years she is doing the same thing I am doing. We are living on the memory of “what could have been”.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:54 pm
Nicki –
I just asked my H today, “were you shocked to hear from the OP?” and he said, “very, especially after so long”. Then we talked and I told him that I can’t get “burned” ever again by him, that I needed to understand what was so bad about ME that he felt he must “escape” ME. The therapist constantly says, “don’t take it personal, it’s all about him”…OK, I get that to a degree…BUT, how can you being the other half in a marriage not take that PERSONAL? And I agree with you, how can we ever live up to the fantasy person? The only thing I can say is when the OP becomes obsessive, and whiney, etc. then maybe our spouses see they are REAL and not a fantasy figure anymore.
I also have the hardest time wondering what he told her about me. I can’t assume it was GOOD or why on earth would he be with her instead of home with me?? He said, “I told her way too much negative, then she overcompensated by doing everything I wanted, etc” He said she made it “way too easy for him to keep coming back”.
My mom thinks he made definate promises to her. She says it’s so typical of affairs, to keep the person holding on. He tells me that he told her it was never an option to leave his family, but how many people are fine with that?
February 8th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
Hi all – okay first of all and this is so weird – I too have an issue with Wednesday nights! last year, after I found out about the affair and had him tailed, it turns out that the OP’s daughter had dance class on Wednesday nights (mind you at the same studio that I had class on Thursday nights) and they apparently met and had coffee in Dunkin Donuts or in his car in an empty parking lot and talked (this is on videotape)- this was during their “friendship” phase after he told her that I knew and that he was ending the physical aspect of the affair – of course later, looking back, it occurred to me that he also had had a number of “meetings” on Wednesday nights so that was clearly one of their regular meeting times – here’s the best part – I probably posted this earlier but a few months ago I discovered that she has a Wednesday night “date” at our Starbuck’s – with another woman friend – they sit and talk and have coffee – so she has filled her Wednesday nights now that she doesn’t have him to be with – Nicki – I love your mom’s quotation. Liz – of course it feels personal because it’s happening to us – but I think what our therapists are trying to say is that the chances are that whatever drove our H’s to do this is internal and not caused by things we did or didn’t do – what they need to realize is that if they were feeling unhappy, insecure, old, bored or whatever – there are many solutions to those feelings – they CHOSE infidelity – a very bad choice – my H claims that he has never said much of anything about me to her except how we got “here” – read “what was going on in my marriage that explains why I am having an affair with you” – he also claims that he never told her that he would leave me but that she spun her fantasies – what I have said to him is that it’s clear this chick has problems – breast cancer, abusive husband, no job of her own, little education, little opportunity to support herself – but once again she CHOSE a lousy way of dealing with her problems – anyone can be wonderful and nice and sweet when things are going their way – but you see what people are really made of when they are faced with challenges – another couple of thoughts – especially relating to Skinner’s rats – I am a psychologist so that’s a familiar theory to me – yes, you do have to positively reinforce what you want them to do – and Nicki – like your H, the first few weeks that mine was attempting to set limits I talked to him a lot about what he was “teaching” her by answering if she called, by letting himself get engaged in a conversation even if it was just a couple of minutes – even if what he was saying was “negative,” i.e., “don’t call me” – he was still reinforcing her with ATTENTION – she wasn’t listening to a word he was saying -it was like the blah, blah in Snoopy cartoons – all she was focused on was that she got him to respond – our H’s don’t get this very basic principle – that even negative attention can keep a behavior going
Hang in there y’all, and thanks for being there
February 8th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
Liz, I was where you are a few months ago. Crying at night, thinking about how they were plotting against me, or how the OP was trying to manipulate my H etc…. Really, in the end, I only hurt myself. I deprived myself of sleep and I shed way too many tears on two people who don’t deserve them and I wasted alot of energy on things that really, in the end, don’t matter. By this I mean, that whether she plotted to make the phone call cause trouble, or whether she wanted to seem this way or that way, really don’t mean a thing unless your husband buys into it. He didn’t seem to care that she called so, maybe that’s a good sign? Talk about the call in therapy. Make him give you his point of view of how the call affected him. I would be on high alert if he was out again having “drinks” on the night he used to see her. I’d would tell him how much anxiety it causes you, and if he’s not willing to stop then take Jessi’s advice and tell him you are taking control of the anxiety and doing things to help yourself. Don’t tell him what though. Truth is that you’ll know if he is seeing her again. It will come out, searching or no searching.
My therapist, is also our marriage counselor. He has been a great influence on my husband, as far as encouraging him to open up and be honest. He hasn’t said we should or shouldn’t stay together, only that by our marriage “tests” that we took, we seem to have alot of great qualities and a few shortcomings. He told my husband the first appointment, not to waste our time if he was still seeing the OP. He said if he was seeing the OP then he needed to come clean and say it, if he wanted any chance of saving our marriage. He said it would only destroy us for good to hide it. He reiterates this at each appt. He also praises him for coming every week and for not contacting her and tries to make me feel confindent that my H’s behavior is trust building. He also told my H that while he has this emotional attatchment to the OP, the emotional attatchment to me must be stronger because he hasn’t left me and ended with her and is here in therapy working on our marriage so that should say something to us both.
Liz, he also recommended I go on an antidepressant because he gave us both a symptoms test of depression and anxiety and I had ALOT of them pretty frequently. So my MD put me on Lexapro. I’ve only been on it a week, so I’ll let you know how it works. It does make me a bit sleepy, so I am taking it at night. He also gave me xanax for panic attacks, and ambien to help me if I can’t sleep.
Sue, hang in there kid. You are stronger than I am. I woulda let him go a long time ago, I’m afraid. I’m not in your shoes, so I can’t tell you what to do, but as I keep saying, he needs to sh*( or get off the pot. Have you thought about what you will do if he really does return home? What happens when it’s just you two again? I guess I just don’t understand what he is doing? I know how it is to not want to give up when the hope is there that you and he can make it, but his words aren’t backed up by his actions. I just don’t want to see you hurting. Take care. MS
February 8th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Hi All! Marlene–My H and I have been over and over this. I am generally a very calm person and I am willing to explain things to my H in 3 languages, if necessary, to make sure I have been clear. He gets what I am saying in the moment, but as soon as the phone rings he picks it up and is “nice”. It could be 6 months in between calls and they pick up right where they left off. The rule was NO MORE and he agreed. He absolutley knew the marriage was riding on it. So, when she called 3 weeks ago and he picked up I asked him if he thought of the promise he made me. Not surprisingly, he said it never crossed his mind. I truly believe that he is waiting for her to end it. He’s been waiting for her to call and tell him she found someone else, so that he can breathe easier knowing that she is done with him. Does that make sense? Liz–As for what they have told the OP about us…my theory is that they told them “enough”. Just the fact that they were paying any attention at all to them speaks volumes. Add that to a woman whose self-esteem is low enough to take something that doesn’t belong to her and there is a perfect infidelity cocktail. I sometimes slip and think what did she have that I don’t have, but I can’t stay there long anymore because truly it is not about me. I am a great person who happens to be married to someone who will never be happy. The other day he asked me what kind of man I really want in my life. The answer: My ideal has nothing to do with what a man looks like or what he does for a living. I quite simply want a man who loves life. That ended that conversation quickly! lol I am so grateful for all of you!
February 8th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
Wednesdays…..hmmm…..the night I found out. He took the recycling and garbage out and didn’t come back…I woke up at 3AM in an empty bed. I try to take them out in the morning each week as it causes anxiety if I do it on Wednesday nights.
MS….I hear you. He spent most of the week with me (not overnight, but lunches, dinners, with the kids, etc.) Yesterday said he might come tonight too. I didn’t believe it, but then talked to me this AM and said “Of course we’ll talk tonight.” We both had our individual sessions and his was late in the afternoon. He called the kids earlier than usual and just asked to speak to them. I got back on the phone and relayed the sequence I just wrote to him and asked what was up. I asked if he cared to explain….very neutral and simply inquistive. This is new for me. I don’t do it well, but am OK with it tonight. He said “No.”. I was so shocked I was silent…..which was good because he followed it up with an apology and said he couldn’t talk. I could tell he was ‘home’ and probably with her. This is unusual in itself as he never calls in front of her. I asked if he could call later and explain and he said yes…..I told him I would look forward to it. 10PM and no call. Don’t know what to make of it.
Trying to keep the anxiety at bay. I’ve done so well this week to not focus on what is happening ‘there’, but to focus on what we are doing to move toward each other. He is supposed to take the kids tomorrow skiing for the first time and has made steps toward that. They leave for school in the AM and don’t come home, so I’m getting anxious about that as well.
I’m trying really hard not to fill in the blanks for myself, but to wait for him to do so. It really could mean anything. Never thought I’d hang in this long and feel as strongly as I do about hanging in there. It is weird to not feel desperate, but still feel hopeful.
I’m going to a massage therapist on Saturday who is also a ‘seer’. Many of my friends have gone…..even those who don’t really believe in that and they all rave about her. When I made the appointment she started to give me a reading during our conversation! It was amazing. She was VERY positive and said that although I have had a recent trauma (I told her nothing) this is a challenge that is for ME. And that I will come out in great shape. Words I needed to hear. She had a lot of specifics about me too that we bizarre. Don’t know if any of you buy into this stuff, but I have to tell you I see this as a huge support. Positive guidance. Will let you know how it goes.
As for the meds. I have them all and take none of them…..yet. I’m close though. I can feel it. Depression usually hits me around this time of year (mildly, but enough to bother my day to day). I think I will start soon. My teeth have been clenched non stop for 3 days now despite my positive outlook…..go figure. My jaw is killing me!
I still believe I’ll get the call….hope so anyway. Hope my kids go to sleep soon too! I think they pick up on my feelings daily….I feel badly about that.
Will try the chat room.
February 9th, 2007 at 7:51 am
I forgot to add my comment about antidepressants – I am on Remeron – I started it in April and it helped be almost immediately with sleeping better – I take it at night
February 9th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Hi all! Sue–I most definitely buy into seers. Like all therapies, I take what I need and leave the rest. This part of my journey involves me learning to let go of a specific outcome so I can allow what will be to be. (so advises my seer) It makes perfect sense to me. Ever hear that poem “Let Go and Let God”? It is tiring for me to keep giving it up and then taking it back.:-)
February 9th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Hi All!
the advice you all have is great. I think I do better for a few days, then have my little emotional panic attacks, or I start feeling sorry for myself and then I have to give myself the old “pep talk”.
Just a quick note, the OP’s birthday is coming up and I can’t help think, will he send her a card??!!She gave him one for his birthday. Or, Valentine’s Day, same thing, will he send her a card or some type of gift (behind my back, of course!) becuase if he blows her off on those two eventful days.. then it’s really OVER and she wouldn’t forgive him or understand, etc.
The fact is, how do I quit obsessing about this? If he does, so what right? It’s not worth being married to him at this point. I create all this in my head and fill in all my own blanks. I need to relax and try to trust, watch his actions, etc. (so much easier said than done!)
I just read an article on the internet that said leaving a bad marriage too fast doesn’t help you. It suggested getting the bad marriage to a good place, then making up your mind if it is indeed “good enough” for you. Also, it said most infidelities happen when kids are in their teens becuase people see their teens dating, becoming adults, etc and the person is longing for when they were their teens age, when life was exciting and they were young, and dating and they think having an affair will recapture that part of their youth. It also said teens are very difficult and it’s not fun dealing with their issues which strain a marriage.
It also said the longer you have been in a marraige, the harder it is to leave it due to the memories and it’s like giving up a part of yourself! It’s a huge void. I think this is why I am having such a hard time making a decision. The kids are a huge factor of course, but I think it’s familiarity.
As for the meds, do they help with the obsessive thoughts? That’s my biggest issue right now, I get obsessive, flashbacks, then it leads to depression.
February 9th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Liz……I would definately talk to your Dr if I were you. Sounds like it might help.
I don’t usually post during the day, but I’m starting to climb the walls! I finally got a text at 10:30PM saying “So sorry…i can’t talk right now……I love you.” I texted back that I trusted he was doing the right thing for us and for him to remember that I love him. Took alot to be positive, but I did it.
So……..on Fridays we talk by now to arrange lunck at 1PM and then counseling at 2PM. STILL have not heard even an email from him! Not only do I not know what to make of it, I am now very nervous that a crisis has been created and the kids’ weekend is in jeopardy. They are at school thinking dad will pick them up and drive north. I’m trying to stay positive and anything else will only feel worse.
Nicki..that’s what I am doing right now..letting go of a specific outcome. It is really hard, but I have been able to function this morning and know I’ll make it through. I’m hopeful he really is cutting the ties. I’m fearful that it is worse. It is most likely somewhere in the middle. So I will live today the best I can for me!
Will update when I know what is going on in my life!
February 9th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
just got a text that he is running late for everything today, but will meet me in an hour…..a text! I also got a hang up call before that………very puzzled. Will check in tonight if I’m lucky enough to be home alone. Now there’s progress…..I’m calling that lucky!
February 9th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Sue, is he at home or work and is the OP there??? Just wondering.
I just went and got a “makeover” on my lunch hour and it really made me feel good about myself, also relaxing and it took my mind off of the obsession. I want to get a professional massage also, again, a stress reducer. I figure, he spent 6 months on HIMSELF, indulging with the OP, going out to dinners, and God knows what else! I have always felt guilty of spending money on me, the family always came first, etc. but now, I have a different attitude! My kids come first, but I think treating yourself to the little pleasures in life really make you feel special and deserving. I am not counting on him to make me happy, it has to come from ME! Boy, does today feel good. Now, if I can continue this upward slope.
Sue – please write as soon as you can :) I am dying over here! Ha!
February 9th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Hi all – by the way, I “knew” on Valentine’s Day last year but proved it two days later when I found her card to him – and gee, it was a Wednesday-night-into-the-wee-hours-of-Thursday-morning discovery – ugh – a horrible time – I am trying to focus on how much better off a year later – trying – succeeding most of the time –
Nicki – my H also said something about anticipating that she would go on with her life and find someone else and that when she did so, there wouldn’t be any threat to me if they had contact – I told him somehow I didn’t think that her new boyfriend or husband would appreciate her seeing the man she had an extramarital affair with – my therapist is not a seer – but he is a Buddhist and he teaches meditation – I took a class from him last year – he also is a huge proponent of letting go of the outcome – and saying we need to believe we will be okay no matter what – hang in there everyone!!
February 9th, 2007 at 6:50 pm
Uh…. I found out on a Wednesday too!!!!! Is that the weirdest thing? H is out of town till tonight and has been texting me all day, that he misses me, loves me etc. I love hearing from him and I love him sending me notes etc., yet in some way it seems so artificial ya know? I used this analogy with him when we were talking about where our marriage was heading one day: I said it’s like having this brand new car, all shiney and new and you love this car and take really good care of it. Then one day someone crashes into it and smashes it to the point of totalling it, only it gets fixed instead and you bring it home, and you look at it but it never really is the same. It never looks the same, drives the same or feels the same. It’s like it’s tainted and you just want to get rid of it and get a new one, yet you love the car so much you just can’t bring yourself to get rid of it. The next thing you know it’s been smashed again and fixed, then smashed again and fixed etc, and pretty soon you just think to hell with it, the car is never going to be the same and you have to let go. The only way you’ll keep it is if you can be promised that it’ll never be smashed again, and since there is no way to promise that if you’re going to drive it, what do you do? I said I have a choice, buy a new car, get rid of the old one and move on to a better choice, or keep the old one and hold on to the good stuff I loved about it in the first place, and hope that it doesn’t get smashed again, cause if it does, it’ll be the junkyard. LOL Anyway, that’s how I see my marriage these days. Sue, please update, I too am curious to see the outcome today. Liz, hang in there, you sound like you’re in an upswing, keep it up. It always feels good to do something nice for yourself. Plus it shows in a positive way to him also and that’s always attractive. MS
February 9th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
MS – GREAT Analogy!!! I love that. Perfect.
My therapist told me somthing similar about my marriage and the affair. She said, “Liz, if your husband was driving a car and you got into a head on collision with him and you survived, if a week later he said, “hey hon, let’s go for a drive”…you would be TERRIFIED to get into the car with him. But say, you risk it, and you think it was “just an accident, etc.” and then WHAMO….you get into ANOTHER head on collision with him and he’s driving again…would you honestly ever get into the passenger seat with him driving again? Sorta like me right now, I am back in the car with him for the THIRD time…..and I keep wondering if I should become the driver….ugh!!
Yes, today was a great day. He’s sort of in a crappy mood tonight, and I am trying to totally ignore it. (hard) but I love when I can do it!
Tomorrow we have a “date” to play cards once again (on a euchre league). I love going, but hate the fact that it’s the very same place where his affair began. Everytime I think of them there, kissing, etc. It’s so hard!!
February 9th, 2007 at 11:08 pm
OK…….here’s the update….no big surprises here. He was simply with the OP and felt I would demand too much and it would cause us too much pain to talk to me. UGH! We spent our entire hour of therapy (and then some) on this. He gets it for the moment. I told him in many ways how I felt, but was the most clear in the end…as it usually it. I told him he made a choice to hurt my feelings in order not to hurt hers. This clearly upset him….good! My text back to him turned out to be a good one. It breaks what trust (I use that would very tenatively) we were building, but he admitted it made him feel like shit.
I felt good that I took the high road and he has to deal with his own stuff without me badgering. There is a definate turn in the road here and I do not know where it will go.
He is currently driving to NH with the kids to ski for the weekend. Everyone is happy about that. Although I am definately apprehensive about my first weekend alone…..even though I need it badly.
There is a God………this is a group ski house and he will have to spend the weekend with the couple who taught him how to ski and the only ones of that generation I have seen and told. As well as their daughter and her kids (you may remember from a previous note…..his first kiss as a youngster!) who, I believe is also having an affair….although it could be her husband…….they are all too cryptic about the details for me to know. The fact is that he will face this head on in many ways this weekend and I see that as really good.
The kids are so happy that he is taking them and he is so happy to be doing it. That part is good. I’m still getting a lot of pressure to join them tomorrow night, which I would love to do. But I know it is something that should not happen. So I’ve made plans with a friend who I’ve made promise to not let me go. It’s funny that this is my weak point. But I know it. Again….turn in the road.
Thanks to all of you for your posts…..sooooo helpful.
Liz…..psyched to hear you took care of yourself today. Also grateful to all on the ‘seer’ notes. I really think a positive outlook that does not obsess on a particular ending is so helpful and I’m working toward that.
BTW…..just got home from work……wish that part were more in control and peaceful! One step at a time I guess.
I’ll be in touch over the next few days I’m sure…it will be my lifeline. I will be in the chatroom as well.
Peace to all.
February 10th, 2007 at 4:57 am
Sure is weird about Wednesdays!!! Sue I see a lady who reads coffee and she has been spot on with everything. I never tell her what is going on but she always sees it in the coffee. Sometimes the incident hasn’t happened yet but it is not long before it does. I often see her before I go to counceling as it fast tracks some of the issues that need to come up. She saw our separation last year then she saw when her was heading back. Has said right from the start that she does not see a divorce but that I could be the one that walks away!!!
February 10th, 2007 at 11:56 am
Sue – I am glad you are going to do something with your friend! I also, have always felt my H has protected the OP’s FEELINGS over mine. He would say, “I created this, she has low self-esteem, Don’t you think she’s hurt enough, blah, blah, blah. It would AMAZE me. Where is the devistation that you feel for your WIFE and KIDS? That is why I think I am so leaning towards divorce still. They were both adults, made a horrible choice, she’s 48 years-old, slept with a married guy with 2 little kids and he feels all this symapathy for her? UGH! What about your wife who you lied to and put through emotional hell? He says he feels “sorry” for me and “understands” but it’s just never at the level to which I need to see/feel. I am not asking him to ball his eyes out everyday, etc. but I just feel like it’s more “lip service” and I really don’t see all the emotion in his face that I need to. I read something that said narcisistic people tend to shed tears for “show” and also for “frustration” towards themselves!! So, he cried twice when I filed for divorce, and I think they were tears of pain for HIMSELF. Not the pain he caused me. I don’t know, guess I never really will. I am not a mindreader. It’s just how I view it….
Jessi – coffee? that’s cool! I thought of going to see someone for fun. One of my friends wants to have a party where a psychic comes in and gives each of us a reading. She read my taro cards last year, and it said I would “find a new life”…hmmm.
February 10th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Hi All!
MS–Car analogies! I love this! I tell my H that he may not have intended to run over me with the car, but accident or not, the injuries & pain I sustained is very real.
Sue–I am glad to hear from you this morning. You are an amazing woman. (and egoless, I think :-) Did you ever wonder whether the unconditional (endless?) love we have for our H’s is so similar to the love we have for our children? I think about this alot. Especially when I wonder what it would be like to be married to a real man. I wondered that out loud to my H the other day and he didn’t even flinch! Hmmmm…
Liz–I think your H and mine are on the same mood cycle! He was positively unbearably “broody” yesterday. I had to bite my tongue in half practically, to keep from talking to him. It’s important for me to shut up, be nice, etc so that he can see his own reflection clearly and not use me as an excuse for why he is angry. Does that make sense? This morning he’s a new guy.
Jessi-I have heard of reading the tea leaves, but not cofeee grounds. I thought I had heard and/or tried everything! The have the best reader in the world I would hesitate to call her psychic because that description falls way short. She has a Master’s degree in Psychology and is an aura reader. She has helped me understand my H’s true issues, fears, ect. Left to my own decises it would have taken me 50 years to figure out!
Marlene–Here’s my theory on the OP will get married theory. My H wants her to stop first! He has asked her 3 times to stop emailing, calling, etc. And since he seems unable to “delete” and/or “ignore” because of his need to be a “nice guy”, the only way for it to end, in his mind, is if she gets married and moves on. Somedays, I can hardly stop myself from laughing when I think how jr high the drama they create really is!
Let’s live, love, laugh and then laugh some more this weekend, okay? :-)
February 10th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Here’s a collection of great advise and phrases I have collected in the past 2 years:
1)Get to a point where you are okay with or without him
2)Do what makes you happy & makes you feel good
3)What he did is not personal
4)The decision to stay or go is yours and you will manifest a wonderful future no matter what decision you make!
5)Your kids love you and want you to be happy
6)You are learning to trust your intuition and own your power
7)If you longing for a specific outcome you will push that very outcome away (the key to manifesting your perfect outcome is to LET GO)
8)Always a giver, it’s now time for you to learn to be a receiver
February 10th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Liz and MS – I love those car analogies – similar to the “bounced check” one I read on the Dear Peggy site – I think they are so self-absorbed that they don’t see how their actions really contribute to our distrust of them – Liz and Sue – as far as them protecting the OP’s feelings over ours – one thing my H said along those lines lead me to believe that one of the reasons he was so concerned about her feelings was that he felt guilty for “choosing” me and our marriage – he let her down and although he knew he also let me down I think he saw it as if I “won” and she “lost” so she deserved more sympathy – a little too egotistical, no? also she frankly is needier, no two ways about it – obviously once I knew about the affair, that could have been the impetus for him to leave me and go to her – but that isn’t what he did – nor did he leave her completely to work only on us – he stayed right there in between the two of us and I cannot tell you how many stories (this blog has so many examples) I hear about that same kind of ambivalence – the reason the old car is such a good analogy is that the history that two people have between them, like in a marriage, goes a long way toward contributing what they will accept and forgive about the other – sometimes I think we love each other the way we love our kids – you know that your kids can do things that you don’t like, make you sad, drive you crazy, etc. – but we give our kids unconditional love – we love them in spite of all their behaviors – I think this is what may happen in our marriages – that we love our spouses the same way and they kind of know that we do – so they push the envelope much harder with us and really test our tolerance – the psychiatrist who manages my meds heard my story the first time I went to him and the first words out of his mouth were “your husband is not afraid enough of you – he doesn’t fear losing you enough” – hmmm – that gave me a lot to think about
February 10th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Sue– I was thinking about you this afternoon and wondered if you ever tried playacting like it doesn’t matter to you what he does or doesn’t do? I suspect that these guys get hung up betwixt and between because they think they have options. I am at a point now where I seriously do not care which way it goes. I am in the observer position now. I have told my H what I must have in the relationship: Truth and Fidelity. If he can’t or won’t step up I have my answer.
February 10th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
You guys are great! I agree with everything you have to say. Albeit…different times and places.
I had a great day today……..totally took care of myself and am feeling really good about it. Manicure, pedicure, shopping (new underwear for the first time in about 7 years…yuck…but true) the seer and finally a really great dinner with a friend.
Talked to the family several times throughout the day as they seemed worried about me…..I think I accurately calmed their fears! :)
The seer was the best part. She hit me on the head in so many ways. She started off on the money(was accurate about the situation) and worked through being direct with me about what I needed to work on…..which took me some time to understand….and I still can only grasp at some of it…….and worked through the marriage, kids, my past etc. I gave her almost nothing and she gave me exactly where I am.
Most of it was not surprising but very affirming and helped tremendously in dousing the fears. There is no answer….which says a lot about how good she is…..but quite a bit of direction.
The only real suprising zinger was that I thought I was further down the road than he was to self discovery…..so much time alone, thinking, talking and finding myself. And she was very clear that that is not true. We are both moving down the road. It’s hard to explain here, but I had a really bad tarot reading a few months ago because the woman made judgments……sooo bad. But in hind sight, and especially with what was said today, that woman was probably very on target prior to her judgements. The tarot person said my h was so stubborn and had so many layers of self awareness to go through that it was next to impossible that he would ever get there…..then she told me to run fast.
Tarots are a place in time that can change…..hence the judgement is not appropriate at all. The woman today (did not know about the tarot reading) said that he is very stubborn and had so many layers to get through that it was not possible before for him to do so. She said it has changed now because he is in counseling and doing a lot of work. She said he has many layers but it is attainable now where it would not have been before. It was wild for me to hear this after the one before.
The guides told her clearly that it is 30% me and 70% him. We are both working at it and that it is savable, but he has to make the decision. I have to answer the ‘why’ question for myself, work on the past trauma of my childhood, and stop my passive aggressive behavior. I have to ‘find my voice’. This is so empowering to me.
It means…..there are no answers. But the road is somewhat clear. Not any different than any of us have said. Work on myself and he works on himself and we see where that fits in the end.
But the peace in it is that the affair is a symptom…she is nothing really…but the problem is very real. We should continue to spend time together and reignite the flame. It made me feel good about what I’ve done……and calmed the noise in my head a bit. We may not end up together, but it won’t be because we didn’t try. And try for the right reasons. AND……my kids are OK. They will need counseling in their 20s..duh…….so that is a relief as well.
I know it sounds like I am putting all stock in this. I am not, but there is more to it than I can write and she was soooo helpful with it all. I offered next to nothing and she saw it all. I thought she was really good because, not only what she knew/saw, but because she was clear that the answers are within what is done with the information and time. No guarantees.
Nicki…..loved your words of wisdom…..very wise words.
Unconditional love thing…….it got me through the shock….but it is not so much in play now. However, this woman, also very accurately, told me today that I need to stop being so rational and logical and allow my true feeling to emerge and integrate with that part of myself. Not to be afraid of it. I’m just trying to do it! So…….not really unconditional love…..just stopped up emotion! She’s right and I am trying. The funny thing is that my h recognizes a lot of this in me and has been really helpful throughout this in getting me to see it without me wanting to kill him! Go figure. A process. Painful! But I am, today, excited about the end results…with or without my h……just for me.
keep it up everyone! we are doing really well from what i can see!
February 11th, 2007 at 12:43 am
I agree Nicki, I am getting to that place where I really don’t care anymore. I can comforably enjoy my life doing what I am doing be it with him or without him. I had been talking about going to an art exhabition for ages and it is nearly finished. He was off doing things with his male friends yesterday so I just went by myself… wouldn’t have done that before. Guess what, I really enjoyed my own company, had a great day and when he got home deep down I think he was a little disappointed he missed out..yay!!! Anyway he has been very attentive today and I have seen some glimpses of the guy I married. I just show him all the good side of what is going on and share the down moments with you guys, at least you all understand where I am at and can help out. I am begining to enjoy this new woman that is starting to emerge in me.
The coffee reader also shed some light on what is going on in my h’s head, it would have taken me ages to see it as well. I plan to go and see her in a few weeks and see what has changed. She has told me I will be fine what ever why it goes and she has also told me that he would never have the intelectual conection with the OP that we have and that is very important to him. From all those that I know who know her the say she is not very bright. I could have told him that… what intelligent woman would let someone string them on for over 2 years!!! I have a right to hang on he is my husband and the father of my children!!
February 11th, 2007 at 11:52 am
Hi All! It’s all good. :-) Sue is getting her groove on & Jessi is nurturing her muse! The accidental blessing in our common experiences is that we are finding the woman/girl within (we all remember her, we just have her shoved in a closet somewhere!) I am confident that we will emerge from our cocoons, at just the right time, as the beautiful, unique butterflies that we are!
I sometimes take great perverse imaginary pleasure knowing that (if they did get together)she is not what what he thinks she is and he is DEFINITELY not who she thinks he is. Ahhh…to be a fly on the wall when those great discoveries are realized! Where will I be when this happens? At Victoria’s Secret with Sue, of course! lol
February 11th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
I am a very open-minded person. I believe we all have the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. So when my H said he met someone who “makes him feel young again”, someone he “had so much in common with”, I was happy for him. Seriously happy! I told him she sounded great and that I would help him get to her. That’s when he balked. He started backpedaling immediately with stuff like: “but, what about the kids?” To which I said, “Hey, don’t worry about the kids, they’ll be fine. We’ll explain so they understand. They aren’t babies.” And on and on it went like that. I didn’t start to get angry until I realized that he was still with me and still with her. No dice, big guy. Now, he was getting in the way of my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! That’s when all bets were off. It makes me very unhappy if I have to share, or compete for a, prize that I was beginning to think may not be as valuable as I once thought. Now, mind you, this isn’t about love. I love fiercely and loyally. And, I love him. It’s just that now…I love me more!
February 11th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Nicki………great posts! So agree…..here’s hoping I can hang onto most of it.
Kids came home bickering and I was so happy to stay uninvolved until the three of them (kids and h) figured it out. They all said they had a great time. Once my h left the kids told me about their conversations with one another over the weekend and how they think they are bonding in a really nice way with their dad (their words).
So I am smiling for now. Not everything is right (some pretty major things are wrong), but some pretty majors things are on really good roads that didn’t even exist before.
guess I have to get back to work………..
cheers all.
February 11th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Wow, these posts are so great, look at how far we have all come?
I have to share this with all of you! Last night was really bad, etc. but i never fought or argued with my H (advice of therapist!), I just “observed”. Let me tell you, if you do not react, it makes all the difference in the world! My H left this morning and saw that I was really quiet, and non-reactive, etc. Neutral. When he came home, he was soooo attentive, and wanted to totally talk about “US” and it was amazing. I just listened and he told me things that blew me away. He said he loves me more than he can express, that he is so afraid of losing me daily, that the affair was an escape, that he should have done the “hard work” to save our marriage and running to someone else was the worst possible mistake of his life. He said he just wants me to be happy, never sad again and if it means leaving him, he wants me to. He said I am the funniest person he’s ever met, the most beautiful, the strongest, and he cannot ever tell me how sorry he is for the pain he has caused me. And he went on and on. What is weird, is he did this totally on his own, without me threatening to leave or give up, etc. I don’t know where this came from becuase when he left his morning (we were supposed to go to breakfast together, and I didn’t go, just told him to go without me and it was fine! no fight, etc…)I know we still have a very long way to go, but it seems like he is genuine. I also told him that I wanted him to be happy too and that I just want us to be the best people we can both be, and the best parents and he totally agreed.
Now, I might a different guy tomorrow, but I’ll take this one today! Ha!!!
February 11th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Liz,
You are so right. It is hard in the day to day though. I ‘found my voice’ tonight to express something that I needed him to help with. I could have done it myself, but that was not good for me, him or our son. (Just taking him to an appt in the AM). It was small, but created lots of strife between us due to our past way of handling it. In the end he agreed to take him and I kept my mouth shut. I think it was really hard for both of us. Such a small thing, but brings up so many issues about how we communicated and dealt in our relationship for so long. Change is hard. But if we are quiet….not ignore our feelings, but just not act out on them, it leaves room for the change……for everyone.
I don’t know what tomorrow will bring either..but I’m taking the good where I can get it and am so commited to working on me and finding my voice. Sounds like you are in a really good place for this process. A big step forward……and all steps forward help when there are the steps back.
February 11th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Sue – my therapist was right, she said I would take 5 steps forward, 3 back, 10 forward, 4 back, etc. She’s right. Oh, believe me, I hope you don’t think I am totally banking on his revalation today. He has a TON of work to do on his own, it’s just that I notice a small shift in his behavior lately for the better, when I don’t react to him. There are many, many issues about him still that I can’t tolerate. The control is the most critical for me. But, if I can at least get him to treat me and the kids nicer on a daily basis, then no matter if we stay married, or divorce, at least I got some improvement. The therapist was right when she said, “I never want you to second guess yourself” and that’s exactly where I am at. I need to know that I’ve exhausted all possibilities before I call it quits. My therapist is divorced, and it took her 2 1/2 years to come to that decison, but when she did, she said she had no regrets. Right now, I am still working through so much of the trauma aspect of the affair still that it’s hard to sort out my emotions still. The anger, is slowly (and I mean slowly) starting to ease up. I also think I am starting to like myself so much more and I see the OP as so sad of a person that I feel like the two of them gave me a “gift” of making me realize what I am worth as a person, and what I want in life, and where I want to go! In the end, I think both of them will have way more regrets and inner demons than they ever expected! WE will be the ones who emerge out of this as amazing people!
February 11th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Liz that is good news, still waiting for my H to express those feelings. I don’t know if he will ever be able to verbalise them but I can see him doing some little things. There doesn’t seem to be as much tension in the air when we are togeher. The big thing I have noticed is that he spends a lot more time at home these days. We went for a run together the other day after the first 20mins he did some speed work and I was doing a long run, on his way back he passed me in the opposite direction. About 4 mins later who should I come across .. the OP. Well that sent the head spinning but I reasoned with myself that she must have come down another track and he didn’t see her. I am sure if he had have seen her he would have got me to turn around and run back with him and if he had been in contact with her he would have baulked at the idea of me running with him that morning. So I have taken a few positives from that experience. Funny thing is all the times I have run that track I haven’t come across her at that time… I wonder if she was there because she thought he would be around at the same time!!!
Nicki I love your posts they are so full of inspiration. I remember telling my h that when he moves in with her don’t forget to thank her from taking him away from this dreadful existance that he has been living in all these years. Mind you he replied with all these positive things about our relationship. Wonder if he listened to himself and could hear how stupid he is being.
Sue I am starting to believe that the changes are going to be ever so slow and subtle and at the right time things will come to the surface and will be able to be handled the right way. I think because our pain hit us like a ton of bricks we expect the whole ton to be lifted at once where in reality it is just one brick at a time. Slow and not ideal I know but maybe as each brick comes off we can use it to build a strong foundation for our new relationship.
Just something I find a little amusing… when I found out this time I made him move into the spare room, eventually he would come to my bed during the night and just hold me. Then every now and then he could come into my bed when I went to bed. He now comes in every night. Lots of holding and cuddling, which is nice, and no pressure for anything else. What I find funny is that he hasn’t asked about moving his things back in although I have noticed a few things in the drawers. It is almost like he is really unsure of where I am at and I like it that way.
Keep moving forward everyone. Sometimes when the mountainn looks high just turn around and glance back at how far you have come.
February 12th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Hi all – it’s good to hear all the stuff that everyone is experiencing! I was talking with my therapist on Saturday and I told him that I was realizing that when I think about the OP and whatever she had that attracted my H, I realized that even though we all have personality traits, we GIVE other people characteristics, too – in other words, many of the positive attributes that he ascribed to her in the stuff he wrote to her and even things he said to me were things that he imposed on her – the same way that when he was rationalizing and justifying why he did what he did, he attributed certain characteristics (negative ones) to me that helped “explain” why he was unfaithful. Jessi – as far as running (literally) into her – my therapist told me at one point to stop thinking about her because he believed I was literally conjuring her up – that I was almost “making” her appear – spooky, but he does believe in all of that spiritual stuff – I would not disagree, however, with the idea that she may be putting herself in places at times when he might show up – I know (because I saw her) that my H’s OP went to the grocery store at the time on Sat mornings that my H usually goes a week or so after their final good-bye – the thing is, she saw me, not him, because he went to a store in a different town, which he still does! by the way, our son is a marathon runner – he didn’t get that habit from either of us!
I know that we hardly need yet another book to read but my sister-in-law (my H’s sister) in whom I had confided is a librarian and she checked out a book for me that I read last week – had some good points in it for both the betrayed person and the one who was unfaithful – it’s called “Getting Past the Affair” and the authors are Snyder, Baucom and Gordon – so I thought I would pass it on to you – it does a very good job of hammering home the thought that there is no way that we should either compare ourselves to the OP or compare the affair to the marriage.
February 12th, 2007 at 11:34 am
Marlene–Interesting idea about “conjuring” up the OP. I have often wondered that myself! It seems I can always sense when she is about to make a re-entry. I can call her moves waaay ahead of time. I am always right. Maybe a chicken and an egg quandry, huh? On the chance that I am calling her in to existence, I guess I need to be clear about what I want. (“come and get him” has been my latest desire of my heart :-)
February 12th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Hi all!
Great posts, they keep me sane!
Sue – how is it going today??
Marlene – I agree with the characteristics comment! They do portray what they want the other person to be! And, remember, the OP is going to go out of their way, to cater to our spouses, they will be over-the-top to keep them in the affair! All they see is the good stuff. Until discovery, then the OP can’t keep up the image anymore because the wall of secrecy has been torn down. All their insecurities come out.
Nicki – I told the OP on the phone once when we were driving home from vacation (I noticed she called his cell phone and he lied, so I picked up the phone while we were driving and called her house right in front of him!) I said, “Hi, I see you called my H’s cell phone, just to let you know, you don’t have to hide and sneak anymore and play games, he’s all yours!” You should have seen his face!!! He was dumbfounded. I felt great and smiled the whole way home. He was expecting me to cry, and plead, etc. instead he got his wife telling his girlfriend, “he’s all yours”. I think it crushes their egos more than anything becuase what you are doing is #1 not fighting for them, and #2 showing them you’ll be just fine without them!
February 12th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Liz, I wasn’t cautioning you on the steps forward and back…..really in my own head while reflecting on what you were going through. But you are right…….that is how it goes.
Jessi…love the bricks analogy. I am going to keep that one. I had not thought of it that way, but have been (especially in the past week or two) thinking a lot about how I had expected an answer and change….in whatever direction……and now I am working with the slow change.
I’m still very uncomfortable finding my space between ‘what it’ and ‘what should be’….’shoulds’ are bad, but they sneak up on me when I perceive pressure from the greater world.
My h picked up my son this morning and I took the time to go to yoga and for a walk with a friend. I should……there I go again……have been working, but it felt great. Then we (my h and I) had lunch. We sat for a long time talking over the weekend, parenting, etc. It was clearly enjoyable for both of us. Tonight he will come and deal with the kids and then have dinner with me after they go to bed. I will tell him about the seer then.
I also asked him to go on vacation with us without the strings attached. I’ve thought a lot about this. If we are on the slow train I think we need to stay on the train until one of us decides to get off or we get to our destination. The kids want him to come with us and I really think it would be good for all of us. Certainly no different than we are living our lives now. And, really……..what in the world would the op think? Maybe he won’t go, but he seemed very pleased and called me for specific dates so that he can look into reservations.
Day by day. If we end earlier enough tonight, I’ll check in then. Otherwise tomorrow.
Thanks again to all……..these posts are truly lifesaving at times.
February 12th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Sue – Oh, I know you were not cautioning me. I have taken so many steps back, I gladly welcome even the slightest steps forward, even if only for a day!
I am glad he’s interested in the vacation. Who cares what the OP thinks. Doesn’t matter. Day by day is good. That’s my new motto. Hey, I used to have to take the day in sections and get through, hour by hour, that’s how hysterical I was when he was with her and how I could not focus on daily tasks. I thought I was getting Alzheimer’s disease becuase I literally could not remember the slightest things. I am getting sooo much better. All these words of encouragement help so much on this site. I find that I don’t talk to my friends about it so much any more. Has anyone else’s therapist discouraged them from talking to friends and family? Mine doesn’t want me to talk to my mom about it. She says I need to keep it in the context of the marriage. I see her point, but I am very close to my mom. What do you think the reason is for this?? any thoughts?
February 12th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Hi – Liz – a lot of the books tell you not to tell friends and family – partly for the reason your therapist tells you but mostly because of the awkwardness if you stay togther and friends and family think you are wrong for doing so or build up judgements against your H that they cannot hide from him, etc. If this is the best way to handle it, I completely blew it – my therapist knows that I confided in a lot of people but I did so because I needed support – sad thing is that as I told various people, they in turn revealed to me that they had had incidents of infidelity in thier lives! I even brought one of my friends into a therapy session with me because she is such an old friend that she knew my H longer than even I did – the only thing my therapist did disapprove of was my telling our 26 yr old son without telling my H that I did so – I did that because I was very close to throwing in the towel during the months that he was still in contact with the OP and didn’t want to have anything come as a complete surprise – I did not do it nor did I frame it as a way to get our son on “my side” – last month I talked to my H about telling our son and we talked with him together but my H doesn’t realize that I had already told our son – I guess that I could feel very guilty about the secrets I have kept, that my friends know and I haven’t ever told my H which ones do or don’t or how much – but I don’t feel guilty, not when I think of the lies and deception he engaged in – I don’t believe that I have to come completely clean or that I am sinking to his level by not revealing everything to him – while I agree that there should be things that stay in the context of the marriage, as your therapist says, I also think that I did certain things to protect myself when he was too busy protecting the OP – the friends and family that know completely supported my staying with him to work this out and have been wonderful to both of us.
Sue – about the trip – all I can tell you is although he felt awkward and didn’t want to go, my H was too embarrassed to come up with a reason for not going on a trip with our friends this past summer so we went as planned – and that was the turning point as far as the OP was concerned – when he returned she got crabby and demanding and he began to see that two relationships just don’t work
February 12th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
Liz! You are killing me here I am laughing so hard! Where do you want me to deliver him to, huh?! (and do you want fries with that? LOL) Perfect in every way :-)
I think I know why your therapist woyld want you to keep your mom out of it. Mom’s have a tendency to want to protect us and rather than say, “Stay and work it out.” many of them say, “Throw the bum out” Hey, I have a daughter and I try to stay neutral but, it is sooo hard when your child is hurting.
February 12th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
My counselors (indiv and mc) have both applauded the reaching out for help thing. Of course, I’m living alone, so that probably makes a difference. However, I still think everyone needs support. I guess it depends on what kinds of support you get. Non-judgemental listening is the best. If you find yourself acting differently or trying to take action because of something someone else thinks or says……it may be time to reconsider.
If your mom is unduly influencing you it could be making it more difficult for you in deciding what to do with each piece. However, sounds to me like you’re doing a great job, so who knows!
I am almost not bothering my friends at all not that I have found all of you. I think everyone is greatful……even though they would never say it!
Day by day, piece by piece. I’ve made progress today, for me. Hope I can keep it tonight!
February 13th, 2007 at 12:04 am
Agree with the friends bit, I don’t say much now and just enjoy their company. When they ask how it is going I just say one day at a time and I am okay.
Liz I called the OP the last time I found out he was still in contact with her and and told her that she can have him I don’t want him so he can settle for second prize. Then I told him and reminded him to thank her for taking him away from this dreadful life he has. He did some pretty fast back pedaling.
We were watching a show on TV last night and there was a love triangle on it h just shook his head and said don’t do it and we both had a laugh over it.
These posts are great and the thing that stands out is that we have all shared the same emotions… some even down to Wednesdays… and we can see others at different stages of the process. For those in the early stages you can see where you are heading and that it does get better as your focus goes off the affair and onto yourself. For those like me that arre are couple of years in you can see that the roller coaster is real and can take some inspiration from those that have been going longer. The thing that stands out to me is that it appears to be a process just like grief. The other strange thing is that the behavior of our hs is so similar that it is almost pridictable. Mine must be in the feeling guilty and embarressed stage. But I am just letting him feel his way back into the relationship.
Hang in there everyone
February 13th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Hi all – this is a tough week for me – it will be a year on Friday that I found proof – just trying to keep my focus on where I am and where we are now – certainly in a better place but I am still bruised – and doing dumb things – so far, in the last week or so, I have dropped my diamond necklace down the bathroom drain (plumber got it out, thank goodness), taken my cat’s pill, spilled coffee and water all over the place and bumped my head getting into my H’s car….I am tiptoeing through the world the next couple of days – one of the books I read said that this holiday, Valentine’s Day, is one of the best times to catch a cheating spouse and/or confirm your suspicions – it didn’t say how hard it is to cope with the memory of having done exactly that – so I hope that all of you are hanging in there too this week
February 13th, 2007 at 11:44 am
The wierdest part for me is that, since my h works out of town, I never would have found out. He leaked it one night. (not the whole story, mind you. Just enough for me to be thrown off balance) In the past 2 years, and the discovery in drips and drabs of the entire story, I have had to take a very hard look at myself. I occasionally miss the “innocence” of me. The one who didn’t know what the word “betrayal” meant, much less experience it. I am stronger now and I am wiser now. I can see his “charm offensive” for what it is now. AND, he knows I know. So, maybe it’s more real now. But it falls so short of what I thought it was, what I hoped it was, what I needed it to be. So, truly now, it is all about me. What I want, what I need, and what is not-negotiable. And this is my Valentine’s gift to me.
February 14th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Cheating Husbands cheat because they are selfish. The offended spouses are not responsible at all. Whatever the husband needs from his wife he needs to tell his wife! God probably allows people to get a divorce because of infidelity because God knows that IT DID NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN!!!!!!!
God revealed that my husband has been cheating on me for the past 7 months with an Ex-Girlfriend that is a whore. This started 8 months into our new marriage. I was about 5 months pregnant and the doctors repeatedly told us we could not have sex. So my selfish cheating husband decided he would break his wedding vows to me and selfishly engage in an Emotional Affair that was leading to a physical affair.
What depresses me about my situation is that if I had known he was a cheater I would not have married him!!!! Now that I know my husband is a cheater I need to figure out how to I fall in love with a cheater. It is like finding out the one you love is a serial killer.
Needless to say, we are getting Christian counseling.
God is giving me the comfort I need.
February 14th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
Rachel –
You are NOT ALONE with this!!! I cannot tell you how many people I know of, not only on this site, but in my personal life that are dealing with infidelity..right now!! A good friend of mine just discovered her husband had 3 affairs..and she wrecked her car following him and the OP. NOT WORTH IT!
I am on 9 months now of finding out (or getting concrete proof) of my husband’s affair. It’s the absolute hardest thing I have ever gone through. But…..it gets easier (trust me) once you start to get to know YOURSELF as the great person you are. I would also suggest getting individual counseling for just YOU!
Yes, it is the most selfish act on earth. Agreed.
How did you find out?
February 14th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Hi Everybody;
Sounds like we are all on a path to loving ourselves more, good for us we deserve it much more than they do.
We are still living together and I am sorry for that in many ways. He still cannot look me in the eye and talk to me and his phone messages at times lack honesty in my opinion. I feel that he is not sincere and maybe that is because the trust/bond was broken when he stepped out with someone else. Maybe I put to much into this but his attitude of just press on like nothing happened and won’t talk about it bothers me to no end. Knowing who this other woman is does not help the matter at all she is much younger than I am to start with and that is all she has really going for herself as for her looks I was surprised to see that she was not a raving beauty.
I am just looking forward to the day when I can shed everything he has said to me over the last 18 months and I know it will all fade but not soon enough for me. I kept a journal and I think for me it was the worst thing I could have done because so much was said and I wrote it all down, all the turmoil he put me through was heart wrenching. I read it the other day and I should have burned it because allot of it all I forgot and I believe that was just the stress of the whole deal. I just don’t want to re-live the last two years so I think I will burn the journal. He can do nothing to me in the heart department any longer I have like a few of you decided that I can live with him or without him it’s just not that big of a deal anymore. I love him but not like I use to and maybe that will come back and maybe it won’t and if it does’nt I am prepared to move on with my life.
What happened to me physically was this and I have not shared this with anyone not even my family but I look at all of us a family in a different way. I had a problem and they put me on meds that made me heavy but I am back to my old self now and grateful that I am OK. I lost it all, 5’6″ 138 and I feel great, look fantastic but with one problem. The stress created other things to happen I have lost about 75% of my hair and for a woman that is desvastating, it is starting to come back I have about an inch of new growth so I am happy about that. I never knew really what stress could do but also other things, I have passed out my blood pressure is low I now have a heart doctor along with the others that I see. I am not taking any meds now just vitamins and they suggested some but I opted out of that scene I have never taken anything like that nor have ever in my life done any type of drugs. Proud of myself for that as when in college they ran rampant on campus.
Ladies, Gents just take care of yourself and your health it may seem to some including me at one point that I was fine but the stress is a real killer for us to deal with all that is said and goes on in these situations. I learned the hard way and then to be told it was all my fault because I could not handle my own stress as though it was’nt bad enough. It was all his fault and he knows this also in his heart but I cannot forgive the lack of compassion he showed me. It’s amazing to me how they can even walk and chew gum at the same time. Double lives they lead only go on for so long.
As for the other woman I know she must feeling a loss and to bad for her as he has been coming home since TG Day and who knows really why maybe she told him enough was enough and make a choice or maybe it was because I told him to get out of the house and go where he needed to be, buy me out and turn me loose and if he could’nt maybe the next time I saw her in town I would ask her, who knows but things are quiet and I wonder when the the storm is going to hit. I guess one never knows about these things but I will never believe anything he tells me for years to come if we stay together. Trust is gone down the road for me with him. I don’t know if I can live like this, I am not being true to myself in many ways but we have been together for so many years I feel I should give it one last try before I call it quits altogether seems fair to me in one way but not in others. To have the person you cherished the most hurt you so badly is a hard pill to swallow and sometimes I feel I am just a left over that he came back to because I was there. I guess since all this I see no truth in him even if he was being honest I don’t see it he has become such a good liar as for years I believed in him and it was all a pak of lies he fed me. I think the person that does not cheat does not see it till it’s almost over because of love/trust/faith you never look at your partner in a negative way but things change fast when you find out the truth of it all.
One day we were talking and I said “you attract weak women with problems and they see you as a savior as you are a nice kind person and they take atvantage of you and you did’nt even see it coming she is so much smarter then I am I don’t know how to play that game”. He said to me “I made a mistake and I found out to late”. I never even asked him what he meant by that I was in the kitchen and never saw his face when he said that I guess he could not face me and tell me that. Does not matter what he said for me it is just a wait and see attitude I have developed and if works out fine and if not, oh well. I think through all this I have learned and created a life of my own and if does not want to participate that’s fine with me I think a bit of defiance on my part has set in and that is really not a good thing either, maybe it will pass in time. I think the devestation of it all just took it’s toll in many different ways in my life and to be with a person you feel you cannot trust one is better off by ones self and that is where I am at. He is going to have to earn it back if ever that happens and I was hurt so badly like the rest of us I just don’t see it at this time. I have always been a strong person and I feel badly for me, not sorry, that I let such a looser let me question myself and that will never happen again. My self esteem is back and I feel great about that it took a long time but I know now that I am the better person and they are just nothing in my eyes as they have nothing to be proud of.
Wishing you all a great Valentines Day from one sister/brother to another.
February 14th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Sandy,
I know what you mean. I feel like this site has become my family. I thought the other day, “I wish I could meet all of you in a major city somewhere… and we all get hotel rooms by each other, and drink, eat and have major fun together!!!” isn’t it weird how you can bond with people you’ve never physically met??? Just shows how powerful words are.
I know just what you mean about the stress taking it’s toll. The bottom number of my blood pressure this summer was 100! My doctor almost died. I have ALWAYS had a perfect blood pressure reading until my H cheated on me and put me through hell! And, he felt guilty, but to me, it just wasn’t enough becuase it obviously didn’t make him quit seeing the OP over it!! And, that, devisated me that my health didn’t even phase him. I also had colitis from this. Total stomach problems and I confided in my doctor. She said, “Until things get straightened out at home and there is peace, it will never get better” …she’s right!
As for the OP, I was expecting her to be a “bombshell” becuase my H is very good looking (women are very attracted to him, tall, dark handsome, charming) instead, whoa….she was NOT what I expected him to be attracted to! So what does it mean? He cared so much more about how she fed his EGO. He even told me that he thinks I am “beautiful, attractive, etc” but she just put him FIRST in her life. So….I don’t think people who cheat necessarily go for looks. They go for someone to boost them up, becuase apparently we are not kissing their you-know-what enough! Just my two cents.
Hang in there and Happy Valentine’s Day (if possible!)
I hit the redial on our phone FYI last night and I was seeing if he called the OP…..ended up he called his male friend. I sorta was disappointed in myself that I snooped…but it’s amazing how they turn you into Sherlock Holmes. I cannot beleive how tuned in I am now to his behavior.
OH, last note. Go to betrayedspouse101.com – very good!!!!!
February 14th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
To Liz,
What a hoot, if all we had to do all day was to sit around and plan ways to make them feel like the ultimate person in our lives we would be worn out by the time they got home. I have the same thing tall, dark and handsome but underneath it all what do I have, absolutely nothing to really be proud of like I use to be.
We live in a small town and everybody knows what he has been doing and of course I was the last to find out and you are right they protect them like they are jewels because they know what they are doing is totally wrong. I just have to laugh at the extent he went so I would not find out the lying and all that crap. One night I went out to turn off the water and there he was up the driveway checking his car for evidence of her, if he did not feel guilty why bother and I told him I saw him, he almost crapped. Just the little things now I have to laugh at, grown men acting like a 17 year old still in HS the only difference is that thier pants got longer. I think they are all off in La La land for they think what they are doing is right for themselves, the self serving idiots that they are. How selfish can one be and in the process he finds out oh, gee I made a mistake. What a riot they must all think we are just plain stupid to believe and hang on to every word they say like thier mistress in the bush.
Sooner or later it all comes out and then they don’t know what to say or pile up more lies to tell. I wonder how they can remember all the crap that comes out of thier mouths. They can’t, as he has said things to me and I told him some of the things he said to me and he deny’s it all they are so caught up in what they are doing thier mind can’t keep it all straight of what they say to us. I think he would like to see it all go away but what is done is done and not my problem to deal with his head problems. Mid Life Crisis and all that is to me an excuse to make themselves feel better about themselves and for some no matter what it does not work. It works for him he said “I like being an honest person” I thought to who. He does’nt think anything about what he did in my way of thinking as not one I’m Sorry has never crossed his lips the only thing he ever said to me was “the only thing I feel bad about is that this hurt you so badly”. What an ____ not to realize what he did to us all. I am better armed now with my own thoughts and feelings and like I said if it works out fine and if not fine to but the Love/Trust/Faith will never be like it was, ever. They just don’t get it!!
Good idea to meet in fun town just for a night or two out and then back to the grind. Hard to get away for some we are all protecting what we have worked so hard for just to keep our own sanity. Hope we will all have a better year.
I am off to do chores, the grind as I know it.
February 14th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Hi all.
Hard to know what is real sometimes. My h is here now….came 3 hours early because he knew I was at the end of my rope with chasing the kids to do their homework, brought flowers (!) and dinner. I want to be grateful……just not feeling it so much….except the kid part.
He has a counseling appt tomorrow and an appt with the ‘seer’…..so it should be a big day! I am thankful that he is at least trying. Just don’t know when the ‘trying’ won’t be enough.
I, too, am plagued with the stress. Even though I am so much better now, my jaw is so sore. I am clenching all day and night. I snap at my kids more easily and don’t complete my work as I should. But there has been progress……will keep with the progress.
Having said all of that…….the more I concentrate on ME and take care of ME, the better I do with all of it. I cry when it makes sense and laugh when it makes sense…rather than not!
Keeping my fingers crossed for a nice dinner. Don’t know how we’ll pull that off! :)
February 14th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Hi All –
UGH. Well, the day was going good (for Valentine’s Day) and then, tonight, my distrust just blew it apart. Today, my H called and said, “gee, my Valentine’s plans for you got screwed up (kid’s had a snow day and were home from school, and we didn’t have a sitter, so he stayed home with them). He was planning on coming to my work and take me out to lunch. Something he has NEVER done! Anyway, I understood the situation and he said he would make it up to me tomorrow. Again, I told him that it wasn’t a big deal. So…..my daughter proceeds to tell me that they went sledding today at a relative’s house. Which, my H did tell me this when I got home from work. What he FAILED to tell me is that he actually dropped the kids off over there and then LEFT. He never told me that! My daughter said, “dad left and went and did errands for 2 hours”. UGH. Needless to say, it’s Valentine’s Day for one thing, the OP works 5 minutes from where he was today, and he couldn’t come and meet me?? It’s the omission that really bugs me.
Then he has a meeting tonight, which I was aware of prior, but he forgot to take his cell phone with him. He NEVER forgets it. Where does my head go? He purposely forgot it so I wouldn’t be able to call him. I have no proof, but this is what he turned me into. A total, non-trusting wife that has to make a decision if I can live like this forever. Now, maybe he did run errands, and maybe he just forgot his phone. BUT, the days of giving them the benefit of the doubt, are so ruined becuase they told so many blatent lies.
Sandy – I know what you mean about going away. I am supposed to go on a trip in May, and I can’t even think of leaving him alone. Is that pathetic that I can’t even go on a trip because I think he will use it to his advantage to shack up with the OP for the weekend? Sometimes, I think I will never get over this.
Sue -
February 15th, 2007 at 12:09 am
Liz……so sorry for your day. I totally get it. These things happen to me as well….and he isn’t even living with me! But sometimes I’m right and sometimes I’m not…..so it is a tough call.
Tonight he made me a gorgeous dinner…had brought the flowers,etc. But this all sounds like something it is not. There is no schmaltzing involved. It just is what it is.
There were many inconsistencies today and ones that have built up from the past few days. I was unsure what to do about them. They all naturally came up and we cleared the air.
The most difficult was something I wanted to talk about, but only when I was ready to do so. I had mentioned this to him, but not the specifics. He discovered the specifics…..and we were doomed to discuss it.
Last weekend, when he took the kids skiing, we had switched cars. He failed to take his checkbook. Which I copied…and all the deposits. AND…..found rent checks from the op that he never cashed! I took them. Didn’t know why……just that it could help me in the future should I need help. (Documentation……maybe.)
He noticed that I took them…..ask me about it…..and proceeded to tell me all the spiteful reasons I took them. You can imagine it was ugly. But I never backed down or defended myself except for being calm and explaining that I didn’t know what I would do with them…..just that I was faced with the decision to take them or not and taking them felt better in terms of my best interest.
Soooooooooo..after much of this….which took nerves of steel for me as he was not rational….must have been the control thing……he started to come around. After we finished dinner and he was doing the dishes (yes…..I asked for that too!) I went and copied the checks and then left them for him to take.
When I showed them to him and told him I really didn’t need to have them (he probably still doesn’t get the need for info piece) he took them and tore them up! Totally unexpected. Was probably the best response I could have asked for and did not expect.
We were both quite communicative after that…..no more defenses….no expectations. So……tomorrow, again, is another day. Still a lot of questions without answers.
But I feel so much stronger……I did not give in or defend myself tonight. I could not answer why, but did not feel regretful or the need to please. HUGE steps. Stood on my own. And in the end we BOTH acknowledged it and felt better about it.
Goes to the TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!!!! It works…..is sooooo hard and impossible at times. But when it works…..it works all around!
February 15th, 2007 at 8:51 am
Hi all – well, we all made it through Valentine’s Day – for those of you on the east coast/New England, we were pretty much cooped up for the day. It is a year for me tomorrow at about 2 AM that I got proof, so I am a bit antsy today. I am not sure how aware my H is of this because he doesn’t have the kind of memory I do, that is, to recall precise dates – it was so traumatic that I will never forget it but I know how guys can really seem to block out memories –
Sandy – about the journals – I am faced with the same decision – I wrote reams and reams during the past year – now that we seem to be on the road to healing, I too am thinking I need to destroy them – this past weekend I did shred the cell phone lists I had and copies of her photos that I had found in his briefcase – that was kind of fun, actually. I am hanging on to several things that are proof of the affair and putting them in my safe deposit box that only I have access to – for the time being – at some point I will consider destroying them.
As it turned out, I feel he did a good job with Valentine’s Day – he got me a nightgown I had admired in a store window (so he is listening to me, anyway) and he got me customized M & M’s with my name on some and “love you forever” on others (so he had to put a lot of preparation into the gift) – he also gave me a card about loving me forever and signed it “all my love” – I think that there is a deliberate message there because the past few years, it’s just been “love, Joe.” Since we both work for school systems we were home due to the storm and watched “The Way We Were” together – there is a reference to infidelity in the movie but other than tearing up a very little bit, I handled it fine.
I recently read something that I copied out of a book because it is about trust – it said that our trust can never be blind or absolute anymore – it is “measured” trust that is based upon our understanding of our partners and ourselves and upon the evidence we see that our partner is committed to a relationship based on respect and faithfulness. I just think it’s important that our H’s realize how critical that evidence is and that they are the only ones who can provide it. Months ago I was where some of you still are – H still in contact with her, protecting her identity, not wanting to talk about it, blaming me, being awful to me, clearly in the role of rescuer for her, etc. – and the fact that I am where I am now will hopefully give you some hope – but also don’t waste time – part of the reason that I hung in so long is that we have 41 years of a relationship – I might have acted very differently if I was even 10 years younger. I still cannot totally rule out the possibility that he is just doing a better job of covering up something but I think that will take some time and continued consistency.
My H moans about getting old when he gets sick and he has a stomach virus right now – he said something to me about it Tuesday because he was complaining about not shaking the virus sooner – I told him I thought that he had done pretty well for himself for an old man – I am not sure he “got” what I was saying, but he did say, “why, because I am married to you?” and I just repeated what I had said. Unfortunately, part of this whole scenario is our cultural thing that even “old” guys can score – not that older women cannot as well but there continues to be a double standard I think – my veiled message to him was “I wouldn’t complain if I were you – you may think you’re old and feel lousy sometimes but you had a wife and a woman 9 years younger than you both involved with you” There were times that he claimed that it must look to someone else that isn’t it great to have two women in love with you but it doesn’t feel great – “well, welcome to the real world” was my reaction – that’s because most women want the whole package not part of their partner’s commitment – which is why the staying in contact as “friends” was not going to ever work
Anyway – sorry to run on – have to go off to work now – I agree, it would be great to all meet sometime someday – take care
February 15th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Hi Sue, Marlene and Everyone!!
Well, first of all, my H ended up coming home at 12:00 midnight, all “lovey dovey” hugging me, telling me he loves me and needless to say, I was not so responsive. I had called the place where he was 5 minutes prior to coming home (now I wish I hadn’t, I totally looked like the checking up wife which I HATE!)…the bartender said, “he just left a few minutes ago”..then I watched the clock to make sure the timing worked out. It did, he came right home.
I gave him his Valentine and he loved it. The worst part was he had nothing for me. I knew he had ran errands yesterday, without the kids, so he could have easily gone to the local drugstore and bought a card. Then..he proceeded to say, “did you get my e-mail?” and I did not get one from him. He said, “I sent you one wishing you a Happy Valentine’s Day, blah, blah, blah”…I said, “nope”…and I had a glass of wine, and went to bed.
This morning, he hugged me and acted like nothing happened. I tried so hard to pretend I was OK, and when he left for work, I cried. So, I decided to blog to you all, and guess what, after reading, I am not crying anymore. I have to be OK with or without this man. I am going to run on the treadmill and then go up to my kid’s school for their Valentine’s parties. (no school yesterday).
Sue – love the check story. I copied so much stuff and my lawyer told me to do it. I even have cell phone bill records, just in case I ever need this!!
Marlene – the M&M’s sound so neat. My friend told me that her H said, “Honey, I am so sorry but I heated up spaghetti in the microwave and didn’t clean it up last night and it made a total mess”…she opened it and there was her Valentine, wrapped in a tiny box. UGH. I think that story also added to my “let down”…I would love a H like that!
February 16th, 2007 at 3:59 am
Hi All… well it has all been happening here…. the OP told her h that my h had signed a lease and paid rent on a house with her. Her h text messaged me with all these stories last night… he is weird. My h was livid, he told me I could go and check out the real estate agent if I liked. His response was soooo totaly different than it has been in the past. I think for once he was scared of what I would do. Even said he would let me know where he was every second of the day if need be. I just kept calm and said if it is true just go now and if it is not true then you need to think about why this has happened. Did she do this to manipulte you to call her. (Like a child… I need attention and I don’t care how as long as I get it) Did she do it to get her h into a rage so she had an excuse to call and warn you or (as he has told me she has low self esteme) did she do it because she gets a thrill out of seeing her h in a jealous rage over her… good for her ego. She comes from a weird upbringing so wouldn’t discount that one. My h even thought that it was a possibility. Spoke to my therapist today and she said that this sort of behavior is not uncommon from the “jilted lover” to get vindictive as after all they have lost all their power. She or other members of her family will try and unsettle us. The thing is it is just driving us closer together to protect what we have and are working on.
Funny I was just reading some of the posts the other day where the OP called or emaied out of the blue and thought oh well that will be the next thing to happen… next phase in the process. I am surprised at how unphased I am by the whole thing. I think he just is totally amazed. Nice and calm and safe at home. As I said to him this morning… we are all human and sometimes we just make a bad choice but that doesn’t have to change the course of your future.. just put it off course for a while!!! We will see what happens over the weekend.
All this mess is his problem… I’m okay. Stay okay everyone
February 16th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Jessi – Hi, you are handling this so amazing! I think it may have been me that you read about in the blog. My H broke it off with his OP back in Septemeber, told her not to call or leave a VM and for her to “move on”. Anyway, she ended up calling and leaving a VM on his cell phone the end of January! He told ME and didn’t respond to her (like I asked him to do!). So, yes, I think your therapist is totally right, they lost “power” and they are spinning daily, while we are building back a marriage. The tables are turned now for them, they used to sit back and laugh that they were deceiving us, and now they are on the outside looking in.
The fact that you H said he would account for every minute is so GOOD! Mine used to get totally defensive when he was lying and I could totally tell he was seeing her. I think your H sounds genuine. I also told my H that he “created a monster” and he agreed with me, then apologized to me for the fact that I had to deal with her calling, etc.
I still think my H’s OP will resurface again, I don’t think she’ll stop until she actually sees him in person. Just human nature. I think she wants to get to his “weak spot” and ruin all the work we have done and shatter my trust. Here’s the beautiful part: I have been in therapy for 8 months now, like myself more than ever, getting compliments about my looks for the first time in YEARS, and I love my kids, I am a proud mom and have great friends. NOTHING the OP can do will change that, or effect me. If she tries to take my H away from me, and he caves in to her, I am finally at a place in my life where I would see it for the pathetic situation it is. That was my goal in therapy, to become good with “ME” and be able to move on with or without him and have a great life. Iam not 100% there by any means, but I am getting stronger each day.
Let me know what happens, I am thinking of you!!
February 16th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
I think the OP will surface again also and I think he will cave because I believe he is a weak man. I only think this because of his shortness with me, he is not a happy man and I think is grieving for her and his loss. He can make his own choices in his life and for now he is here but I don’t expect that to last to much longer and if it does fine and if not I am fine with that also.
He got me a nice card for me Valentines’s Day with all the I Love You stuff he wrote but I cannot get past the fact of what has happened between the two of us. A new cell phone which was nice and candy for my sweet tooth. Somehow I still feel that it is all a show on his part as if he playing the role of his life. It’s not that it was’nt enough but it did not really come from his heart. I know he is trying and I know he loves me in his own way but I don’t think he is in love with me. Big difference but who’s to tell or know anything when things are right but not really right.
Gut feelings are more present now than ever and I don’t come away with a warm fuzzy feeling like I use to. He is distant in his own way as if he is in another self absorbed world that I don’t/can’t enter and really don’t want to either it’s like there is a dark side of him I never saw before maybe I see this because I am being more objective to all this than before. Maybe I expect to much from him at this time who knows but all I really want is for him to be honest and when men/women cheat there is no such thing they have lied so much it has become part of them. How sad is that!
I love where we live I love everything about this place and I have come to find out in myself that I love this place much more than I love him, I never thought I would feel this way but that is just the plain truth of it all. Being
shattered and the innocence of my love for him is no longer there as he distroyed that willfully with such a vengence I don’t know this man anymore. How can they be so blind?
They do create monsters in themselves because they cannot handle the stress of the situation that they started in the first place so they take it out on the ones that are left behind so to speak. I just feel that no matter what I do this is doomed to failure and it is probably going to be my fault this time as the trust issue with me is so great that I don’t want to be lied to any longer and I never know if he is telling me the truth or not. He is so good at it as he did it for 2 years and I did not even have a clue. I just always believed in him as a person and to find out that he was such a liar and cheater was beyond anything I had ever thought in my life would happen to us just like the rest of us, who knew. Life does have it’s twists and turns and I am so ready to be elsewhere in mine.
Hard to walk away when you still love the person so much who betrayed you but living a lie with him is not worth the mental abuse he dished out so well. I don’t know how they can feel one should just forgive and forget like nothing happened. I don’t know how they can just walk through life with what they did it does not seem normal to me. I know if it were me who would have done this my life would have been crushed at knowing he saw/knew anything. I could’nt do it and be true to myself and self respect for me is very important but for them it means nothing.
Hope I have a better day of it, I think we all regress some days and this is my day. I guess thinking about leaving is the hardest thing if it comes to that but I am better prepared now than I was before so that’s a good thing.
February 16th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Hi all – Liz and Jessi – I agree with all you have said about the OP’s power – and if indeed your H’s disclosed to you that the OP had contacted them and/or you know that the OP did so and your H’s ignored her, be very very glad – my H really failed that test in Nov. when he saw her by chance and didn’t tell me and then started a few email exchanges and didn’t tell me – it is so much more trust-building to tell your wife that this occurred and if you are telling them that you are on this blog or whatever, you have my permission to tell them that as another betrayed wife I can say how important that would be. I was so angry and upset at my H when, after telling her not to contact him in September but also telling her that he would be “in touch” to see how she is in terms of her illness, etc and that he would tell me when he did this, he ended up omitting that he had seen her and certainly omitted that they had emailed – I think that for the first time in my life I was incoherent and not even able to put into words how upset I was – as to whether or not she will resurface? she was very very hurt and angry with him and said he would never hear from her ever again – well, never is a long time – I think I am still waiting to see what happens if he again happens to see her and if he tells me or not and if he ignores her if she calls or not – he says that he will and that he will not go back on his word this time
Sandy – I have spoken to my H about being in a funk at times and told him flat out that when I see that I wonder if it is because he is unhappy about having ended things with her – he has told me no, that he gets into a funk when he thinks about what he has done to me – I too lived with that “distance” for awhile but it is gone now – but again, I know what you mean – are they just doing a better job of acting or lying or are they being honest?? that’s such a tough issue and I think that since we are all in this pain we want the answer to come more quickly than maybe it can sometimes
February 16th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Marlene, Sandy and all –
Wow, I thought I was the only one dealing with this “funk” issue that my H gets in also. And, I will think to myself, “does he miss her, is that why he’s so distant? does he regret staying with me now and wonders what it would be like if they were together? Is he doing this because it’s the “Right” thing to do becuase we have 2 kids? Is he lying in his Valentine card becuase he knows it’s a Valentine card and he HAS to make it seem wonderful, or I would get suspicious? It’s awful when you have to rethink every move they make, or every word they speak. Prior to the affair, I just read his cards and believed him, took it for granted!
Marlene – I went through that crap the first time I busted him and honestly I can’t beleive I am still here with him because I have YET to get over it! I was told I would be made aware of any and all contact and I FELL FOR IT! But, in my defense, you have to or how can you ever, ever rebuild trust? So, I did and sure enough, lie upon lie. Now, I am on hyper alert mode. If he does it to me again. I am gone. I am done. I hope it doesn’t come to that, but I have to prepare myself for it mentally. The therapsit keeps saying, “you’ll be much better equipped to deal with it than you were the first time”…God, I pray she’s right.
I just had lunch with a great friend and she told me I was her “hero” and she can’t believe how great I am doing, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes, I think I am so strong and others I think I put on the biggest front to mask the pain! I still will break down and cry if I really think about what he did to me. I just will never understand how they do it to their kids either. It tears me up when I look at how innocent they are and to know their dad did this….ugh.
Well, we’re supposed to go to a party tomorrow night and I hope it goes well, sometimes me + wine, isn’t so good with thoughts of OP!
February 16th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
I cannot believe how familiar all the stories seem to me. I found out about 9 months ago that my h had an op. Yuck. The lying has been killer. He quit the OP and we started to communicate and become close again and I allowed the divorce to slow down and he swore to me and to others that he hated her and what she stood for and himself and if he could turn it all back he would and so I went home with him on my birthday and things seemed to be going along and then WHAM! He was moving her in to his apartment. What a joke I am! Our kids are 7 & 10 and he had not told them and neither had I and so it was twice the shock. My daughter seems better with it than my son. I had to step up to let my son know I would not hold resentment if he stayed with his dad on his weekends. I have had one psycho fit at his apartment and now do not even try to get out of my car. He still claims I am his best friend and that the relationship is not going any where and she will be getting her own place as soon as she has the cash and blah blah blah. Some days I cry in pain for me, some days I laugh too loud, some days I hurt for the kids, and some days I try not to get out of bed. I just started a gym cuz I am tired of looking at that fat girl in the mirror. Wasn’t fat until my first child and then have lost a couple of times since but not held it off. The gym feels great. This is the first thing that I have really done for me. I love the time I get there for ME. I really want to just get the divorce done and let it all go! I want to be friends I think but most of the time I don’t know how he can call me his friend after all he has done. I know that the affair is his problem and all that but I still wish I was what he wanted. I feel totally lost most of the time but work thru each day for the kids and now for my mind. I am so glad I can read all the posts and see the different stages. I keep re-reading ‘break free from the affair’ hoping it will sink in soon. I guess taking the step out into the world with playing pool and going to the gym are pretty big for me. I had become so anti-social and scared to be around people I did not know. Had our marriage done that to me? Did I allow the fat to get back at him for what I wanted to but did not say? I can not wait to feel good about myself again. I am tired of obsessing over why her and why not me. I have decided it is mostly my fat but deep down I know that it is more towards the fact that with the kids, he was no longer #1 and I quit catering to him. Thanks to all who sign on these boards!
February 17th, 2007 at 12:04 am
Cheryl,
Oh my gosh, your story is so very similar to me!! I was overweight after having my kids (was thin when I met him!) and gained weight and felt like crap about myself, became less social and I think he controlled me so much that I just “gave up” essentially. Well, when I found out about the OP, and the LIES and what a total selfish jerk I was married to, I decided to start walking around my neighborhood. Put on the IPOD and went…and went…really helped getting the anger out! And…low and behold, the weight started to come off…then I used weights in my basement…then..I did the treadmill…and ran on it…I am half the person I used to be when I found out! I bought new clothes and I think it blew him away. I honestly think he figured I would go the other way, cry, eat, cry, eat, beg him….nope. Didn’t happen! I think he can’t stand the fact that he has lost control over me. The OP is thin, tiny but guess what, not as attractive as me! Ha! So I don’t care!!!! And mine did the same thing, I filed and he said it was a horrible mistake, blah, blah, blah, then WHAMO! LIED again, and again! So…I have major radar going on right now. I don’t know how this will play out, but either way, I just want to be good with ME and I want my kids to be emotionally stable!
Welcome to the post!
February 17th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Good Morning Liz,
I am so proud of you loosing the weihgt that is a tough one by anyones standards. Seems like once you put it on it never wants to go away, I was lucky as mine was from the med’s I was on but did not get that heavy just glad it all came off when I stopped taking the stuff. I also walk 4 days a week about 3 to 5 miles depending on the weather and my attitude and found that I like better than the gym and only because of an incedent that happened there. Funny story in one way.
I was working out and when I am done in the cardio room I moved to the bike and a lady next to me struck up a conversation, you know the usual stuff where do you live whatever. I told her and when she found out who I was she called me a liar, she said “I KNOW HIM AND YOU ARE NOT THE PERSON HE IS WITH AS I KNOW THEM BOTH WELL”. My reply was “I think since you are a new comer to this town of ours maybe you should think about what is real and what is not, he is a very convincing person and since you know them as a couple so well maybe the next time you see him you should ask him about the woman he has been with for the 17 1/2 years”. Not a word from her after that she got up and went to her cell phone and out the door she went. I also know this gal he is with is a new comer so to speak and she does know about me. Like I said before knowing who she is to me now does not make life any more pleasant for either of us since he has decided to be home with me. I think they are all just screwed up so we’ll just see what transpires over time as I have that on my side I am not going anywhere at this time and I don’t think she has the stamina to out wait me. She wants him and he does not want to go sort of funny really when you think about it in a diverse way. Got to the point where I think of her for what she is, no respect for herself and low self esteem since she cannot find someone that was not attached to someone.
I believe all these women that do this sort of thing are just after the pay check and security because they are not smart enough to make it on there own and need someone to take care of them. I bet she was a tad mad when he did not move in with her but it’s not over with yet by a long shot she will not give it up she is like a dobberman pincher and a cruel person at that. He cannot be much better of a person either, amazing what you see and the other side will come out for her someday also as she will end up taking the blame for all of this in the long run because the men/women that do this sort of thing just hop from one set of problems to another and never address anything in themselves at hand. THERE OWN GUILT, becuase they are above being guilty and it’s always somebody else’s fault, they have no shame and cannot face themsleves. You know the type all for me and you go fly a kite.
Have a nice day, I plan on it.
February 17th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Cheryl….your story sounds similar to mine except that my h has been living with her since day one of mov9ing our of here. But I heard all the …….we’re not really living to gether…etc….
I am getting happier and happier with me, but have all the days you describe as well. I am in a phase of not being sure of what I want…I just want me to be me.
We’ve had a number of arguments the past few days, but they feel different. We both express ourselves fully and then it’s over…..no more ‘ramping it up’ and leading into a hundred other things. They end with one of us realizing a miscommunication or apologizing. This is wierd for me as it is different, but feels bettter.
I think I might be at a point where I am not quite so cautions of showing life in a bad light….it is what it is and I am ‘finding my voice’! After 43 years!
Don’t know where it will go…..but still hanging in there until I know I should not any longer.
February 17th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Hi all… heard a song on the radio yesterday and I reckon it was written for us. It was about a guy who did the wrong thing by his wife and they split up but it wasn’t long until her saw here again and was torn apart as she was with someone else.The thing that got to him was that she looked so beautiful, walked proud and confidently and he looked at her knowing that he had made her that way because how she had come through what he had done to her. I will have a hunt around and see if I can find it. All I could think was that the song was about how I was feeling. My h heard it as well and he didn’t say anything just reached for my hand.
February 18th, 2007 at 10:03 am
Hi all – Liz, I am exactly where you are – if he is in contact again, I don’t care how “innocent” an encounter it is, I am done – and the main reason is that he told me himself in Nov.that he finally realized that no interaction he ever has with the OP will ever be innocent in my eyes – so it’s a choice he has to make – does he maintain no contact because he knows that or does he stay in contact and just keep it a better secret – he has not kept any of this a secret yet because I have always either found out or suspected and confronted – but if he chooses to reinitiate contact and just cover it up better, I will see that as an out-and-out and intentional attack on me, none of this “it just happened” and “I didn’t mean to hurt you” crap. And your therapist and mine are correct – this time we WILL be better equipped – that which doesn’t kill us makes us stronger, no?
Cheryl – welcome to the blog – one thing I will say is that I was quite clear with my H that I had no intention of being his friend if this broke us up – our son is grown so we don’t have that pressure over us – I think he thought that he could exit this marriage amicably if it came to that – well guess what? he’s wrong – I have no interest or investment in remaining his friend if that is what happens and I have told him so – and he knows me well after 41 years so he knows I mean it
Sandy – geez, that was a weird encounter! I also agree with you about the OP and the paycheck thing – my H would never see it that way but his OP was in a supposedly abusive marriage and has had no regular job to speak of for years – she has just been a substitute secretary in the school district (which he works for and where we live, unfortunately) and although I suspected that he got her those assignments, it turns out I was wrong – she has done that for a few years, before she ever met him – he told me this but I had to prove it on my own and was able to do so – since he is a very well respected teacher in town, I am willing to bet that she saw a good opportunity, good salary and benefits, good status in town, security for her teen-aged daughter who had him for a fifth grade teacher (that is how they met, UGH) – he likes to portray it as “it just happened” but I think he was looking for a diversion for the many reasons we have now talked about with one another and she was looking for one too but also for a way out – when she left her home last May with her daughter because her husband had hit her (so my H has told me) and then returned after getting a restraining order on her husband, I am sure she was rather furious with my H because he didn’t seize the opportunity to leave me in order to be with her or at least be more available – she never in a million years expected me to hang on – she had to go and live with her sister and family for a few weeks and was calling him from a pay phone until she got a cell phone – this is better than a made-for-TV movie, no?
February 18th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Marlene
It was so good to hear someone else say the friendship is over. I feel the same i want nothing to do with my ex. Others percieve it as the bitter party, but for me really how can i possibly be friends with someone who had no respect for my or my childrens lives and doesnt to this day. In a perfect world i guess that would work. but were not in a perfect world are we. I have sole custody and have not seen him but a handful of times in 4 yrs after being together for 26 yrs. he made some really stupid choices that affected all of us in the worst ways and im suppose to be his friend, not in this lifetime because that is not the kind of friends i want to have in my life or need in my life, thank you so much for saying that.
February 18th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
Hi All!
Things are status quo for me. I honestly think this is the longest I’ve gone without bringing up the OP..a full week! Ha! My previous track record was no longer than 4 days. I feel pretty good about myself today, not really letting it get to me, not dwelling on it as much (still dwell daily, but not as severe..)
Marlene – I am right with you! Any contact, a MOLECULE on his side, this girl is at a divorce lawyer faster than he can say “alimony”. I honestly can’t believe I am still with him after all he has done. I just pray I would be better equipped for it emotionally. The anger, is what would worry me. And, no, we would not be “pals”. No way could I bring myself to that relationship with him. It’s hard enough now to just look at him sometimes let alone if he lies to me again after all of this nightmare he put me through.
Jessi – did you ever find out the song? I think I might know it..have you also heard the one (female artist, can’t think of her name) but it was something to the fact that “you should have thought about that before you cheated!”….I was blaring it in my car one day…made me smile.
Sandy – I love to walk. Couldn’t do the gym thing either. What a story!!
I think walking helped keep me sane actually when he was with the OP. It made me walk faster, and faster, just thinking about it…great way to work out and let off steam!
I will let you know if I make 2 full weeks, that’s my goal right now. Anyone done that so far????
February 19th, 2007 at 1:44 am
Hi all… Liz I have gone 3 weeks with hardly a mention of her. It sure feels better, she is no longer the most important topic of conversation. Had a good weekend, h was home when he said he would be and didn’t even blink the couple of times I asked if I could go with him when he was running errands. That is a change!!!
Picked up our wedding rings from the rooms they were left in from when we took them off before Christmas. Told h I was just putting them in a safe place. He passed a comment saying that soon it will be time to put them back on again. I replied mine will got back on when I know I won’t need to take it off again!!!
Hang in there all especially the newcomers, you will find these posts a great help.
February 19th, 2007 at 9:28 am
Hi All!
I have been reading all the post and seeing a bit of myself in all of them. After 2 years of this back and forth (“she means nothing and I can’t stay away”) I am now wondering whether the prize I was seeking (my H) was actually worth all of this effort. Make any sense? Like, if I win, will I be happy with the prize? He is working with his therapist on what they have determined(and he does agree with her)is an addiction. It’s not a sex addistion, but an addiction to the “high” of the new romance/infatuation/she thinks I am all that and a bag of chips. I rarely bring her up anymore. The urge to do so has passed. I have pretty much dealt with the anger of the betrayal by seeing it more as his need to have his ego propped so he can feel good about himself. That the whole thing was never about me.
February 19th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
Good Morning Everybody,
One song that comes to mind is, Come To Expect It From You by George Strait. I bought the CD, The Millennium Collection, I have played and it has become my favorite it tells it like it is. Got to love George. Amazing how we can relate to different issue’s through music but I guess it just express’s how we really feel and feel we never say the right things at the right time. Hind sight is 20/20 I always think of great come backs after the fact and that is because at the time my frustration over all this has made my brain go in so many directions at one time.
I have made so many changes myself over all this about attitude towards him and it works for me not to say it is right/wrong just different. We can’t out think them because thier problems are just that thier problems and they will have to work them out themselves if ever.
The OP is probably just that and will go by the way side for a new one in time or maybe he will stay home but I doubt it so I have my choices to make for myself and have.
Liz, we do have allot in common as we have all been there done that, I have not brough her up in over a month. I just figured it was not worth the mental effort on my part any longer to drain myself for his bad behavior.
Later, have a great day.
February 19th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Has anyone had this issue/argument? The OP called my H a minium of 10 times a day, for 6 months. I can print the phone bill and earmark each time. He also called her about 10 times. Here’s the deal, I called him this morning to tell him about an appointment and I got,”couldn’t this wait?”….”did you have to make a special call to tell me this?”…….I was so furious but I kept my cool. All I could think of was, “bet he didn’t tell the OP, did you have to make a SPECIAL call to tell me this?!” I cannot stop making these comparisons, no matter how hard I try! I can’t help but feel like it’s OK for her to do it, but not for his WIFE to do it. Can anyone relate to this issue??? even in a different way?
February 19th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Hi Liz – yes I did have the same issue – I know they talked a lot by phone, more so after I found out, during their “friendship” stage – and I know that I called him a few times when he was either with her or when he was on the phone with her – in those cases his phone went instantly to voicemail – when he was still in his nasty phase, he said something to me about calling him during the day and accused me of checking up on him, making him feel as if I was watching him all the time (well, ‘ya think?)All I can say is that changed once the contact with her was severed – now when I call him, which I don’t do that often, he is fine with it – a few weeks ago, I almost died laughing because he called me and left me this big long voicemail that went on and on when the info really could have waited until we both got home that day – I guess I have to go back to the pointlessness of comparing ourselves to the OP and our marriages to that relationship – remember the phone was a lifeline between them because they were not coming home to each other every night – of course it bugs me if I think about it so I understand how you feel – her power came from many things he gave her, not the least of which was his willingness to be interrupted during the day by her calls – but there came a point when he was actually avoiding taking his phone with him – he was afraid of getting a call, not wanting to deal with it – her power just kept ebbing away – I was honest with him about the phone and the “meaning” it had for me – I told him that it was ironic to me that the phone was a link between them since I was the one that had bought the phone for him!! I told him that while I didn’t want to interrupt his day, there was a positive feeling that I got if I knew that I could call him and that my call would not be competing with another woman’s call – so it isn’t the calling or not that is bothering you or him – it’s what it signifies – if you can talk about it with him without comparing (like saying that you know that he probably never reprimanded her for calling him) maybe that’s an angle to take
February 19th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
It seems like all of you got to keep your husband. That was my dream but now I know that I would have been the stalking Sherlock Holmes and that would have been a crappy life. Found out the divorce will be final in court on March 7th. Been a 2 year long divorce. I really want to be nasty with my h and say things like, ‘you and your new family should be happy and relieved’. Her kids, which were taken away by her mother for 6 months, stay with them often. My h forwarded an email to me which was originally from the op. Now I know her email address and phone number and am having a hard time not writing a nasty email. Even though this would make no difference and probably make me look psycho again. I hate and hurt all the time except when at the gym or busy with kids stuff. I sometimes wish the kids were older so I could just bury myself at the gym. I know that what I feel is self pity and not fair to them so I push it aside and move on to make the most of our lives. My h treats me like the ‘other woman’ now. He calls from his mothers when she isn’t with him or from work. I feel like telling him off but always regret it in the end as I still feel the need to have him around. I can tell when she is there by the sound of his voice. He has an attitude with me when I call and she is around but not when he is at work or somewhere without her. I feel very hostile today. I want to scream and cuss and all that. I am so glad for this blog to get some of this out and get feedback from others that really understand. Thanks to all of you!!
February 19th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Hi Cheryl,
If it would help, I will give you mine ;-)
February 19th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
I almost died when I saw his cell phone bill and he was so protective of it and told me I was never to open or look at his mail and accused me of everything you can imagine. I had a chance incounter with it one day and found over 200 calls made from her to him and him to her all times of the day I wondered how they got anything done at thier jobs and how they got away with all the time spent on the phone from 5:30 AM in the morning till 10:30 PM at night it went on for months. That is not including all the voice mails that were checked and there were 100′s. Was’nt good enough for him to spend about 6 hours or more with her a day the cell phone became thier life line. A total fasination thing with a new romance I guess but I still believes he calls her but I really don’t care an longer he is at home and she is by herself with whatever or whoever, who cares and she got what she asked for when I am sure she gave him the choice her/me and who knows what will happen yet maybe it’s over maybe not but I doubt if she would take him back because in the back of her mind would always be the question, when is he going to leave/cheat on me. Maybe not but if I were her I would be thinking that. These women are like sharks with thier jaws open they see things in men we don’t see and I believe it is because the men/women require the adoration so much from others they don’t think about anything but themselves, selffish to the core. Who gets hurt the person who is staying at home doing what they should be doing, being faithful. Tough nut to crack to even try and understand all the crap that goes through thier minds and how they justify every action that they do. I could not do it, I think the effort would not be worth the regrets I would have.
Good Luck to Us All
February 20th, 2007 at 9:56 am
Sandy – couldn’t have put it better myself! The amount of calls to my H and the OP were nauseating. And most of them were like 1-2 minutes in duration so I am sure it was when I was in the house, or he was somewhere that he had to hide what he was saying, and they made a quick plan to meet somewhere. I don’t know. The whole thing makes me ill and it’s been 8 months now, and the feelings are strong as ever. I thought I would be feeling better by now, but I am not. I honestly think the shock factor has worn off, and the anger has subsided, and now the harsh reality of what he did to me and the kids is front and center in my head, and in my heart. Sometimes I don’t think I will ever be able to forgive him and I don’t want to live out the rest of my life with this looming inside me everyday. I know they say it can take 1-2 years, but I also think it’s how the faithful person is “built” inside. I have always thought to myself if he ever cheated, I would leave him, divorce, etc. So, I think a major part of my upset is that I sold out my own values or something. I know that isn’t true, but I can’t help feel this way. Can you tell I am having a bad morning?? I often wonder if his days are like mine, but in a different way? Does he feel remorse everyday? Guilt? I just wonder to the depths of how this whole thing effected him.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Good Morning Liz,
I don’t know if they even think about it much but I do think they wonder about us. Maybe not the way we would like them to but I believe they wonder what we are relly going to do, little things that are said are sometimes more powerful then a huge blow out. Tell you what happened last night.
We had to run down to the local pub as we are having a Mardi Gras party saturday night and the masks were in and really he did not have to come with me as they are for the gals only but he drove me. A gal was there we both know and she is getting a divorce and she bent his ear about all the demeaning things that her husband said and did to her the verbal abuse/emotional and so on. On the way home he made a comment about it and all I said was “any type of abuse changes a persons attitudes some better some worse”. He did not say another word all the way home just held my hand, he knows what he did to me/us so we’ll just see what transpires over time and I have allot of time. Who knows maybe the lights are coming on for him maybe not who knows what they think but I am so tired of trying to second guess his actions it just wears me out emotionally and I am tired of it myself. I know he wonders what I am thinking now and good for him about time he thought of someone else besides himself and her.
Being hurt like this takes it’s toll on everybody him/me/family/her, friends that don’t talk to you because they know and are affraid you will either spill the beans or ask them if they have seen him with someone else they all know and if I were in thier shoes I would probably feel the same way, understandable. I would not want to hurt my friends and have them feel badly about me telling them only makes matters worse when you know and see the couple together and I know people here think I should have been long gone but love is a strange creature when you care. Tough call all the way around. I feel I have sold out also and that is not a good feeling to think I have the left overs when I thought this was a one on one relationship, better or worse but I guess that does not mean much to them all the promises they make you are gone in a flash and they don’t care what you think or do. So sad for the ones like us to feel like we have been so used, abused, lied to, cheated on and emotional upsets are so great that’s it hard to focus on anything. They just don’t get it and if they do they will never admitt to it because then it would reflect on thier actions.
Hope you have a better day all of us look back and think more some days than others but just hang in you will be fine and so will I, time does good things so they say.
February 20th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Sandy and Liz – I also can still feel the outrage and get nauseated when I remember everything – all the calls I saw, the times he lied to cover what he was doing, etc. and it is a year since I found out. I think the only thing that helps balance that is that I do see things better between us now than before. Does he think about it and feel remorse everyday? I doubt it because I think he, like many people who did this, has the capacity to put his guilty thoughts aside, to decide to just not think about it. One thing I was thinking this morning, along the lines of what you are saying about “selling out” by staying with them after we found out about this – you wonder what makes them think they can get away with it, right? so I think initially they are in la-la land and figure you will never find out – but I also think that they know us well and feel like they WILL get away with it – that even if we find out about it, we will not leave them – and in our cases, they are right, no? but I am not sure that makes us weak or stupid or as if we should feel taken advantage of – I think for me it was taking a perspective – someone in this triangle had to be the grown-up as they both acted like teenagers, selfishly and irresponsibly – if I had thought he had after all these years met the right person for him I would have just walked away – but that is not the way I saw it and as much as it hurts and as hard as it is to forgive him, I felt that our marriage was worth preserving – there are still many things that I love and respect in him as much as I hate what he did -
as far as them thinking what we are thinking and feeling for a change – when you see that I think it is a sign of progress – because it means they are developing empathy for the people they hurt, not just giving a lip-service apology and not getting defensive
February 20th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Nikki-I can have your what? Husband? Thanks but trying to cut down! On the cell phone thing, I took care of any hiding or lying there. I signed up for online access to the bill and did not tell him until he lied about talking to her and I was able to prove the lie. This has made me a stalker of sorts. I always know what her number is. I always said if he ever fooled around I would leave him and the end. No it is not that easy. I know that the book ‘break free from the affair’ gave me lots of ways to handle or decide what to do if we were to get back together. I wrote a poem that is being published and entered into the $1,000 drawing this month. That is something good from all of the bad. Here goes, I be you all can relate to some extent.
Surrender??Let go??Move on.
These words are so easy to say.
Just do it??Take a step??You won’t fall.
The world is just a stumble away.
Good luck to us all.
February 20th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Strange how we all seem to have a down day around the same time. All has been going so well but today I feel overwhelmed by it all and wish it would all go away. H hasn’t done anything in particular to cause me to feel like this he was even home early last night. Maybe I am just worn out have had a lot on this week. Every time my cell phone rings or a message comes in I dread that it is some story the OP’s h is cooking up to unsettle the progress that we are making here. Between her and him I think they are trying to destroy us. My h sure got himself involed in a screwed up family.
Don’t know if I should say anything about how I am feeling to my h. Maybe I should just let him know that somedays I need a little TLC. Went to a funeral yesterday of a friend who was the most wonderful, loving person. She was only 48, sure puts things into perspective!! Couldn’t help thinking why did someone who brought so much joy to the people around them have to suffer and be taken from her family and someone (OP) who has caused so much pain and hurt to so many take up space on this earth.
Liz I also wonder if he has bad days like I do or has he just put it all in a box and put it on a shelf and doesn’t want to take the lid off and that is how he deals with it. I have a girlfriend who had an affair many years ago and it has been a big help talking to her and hearing the other side. She stayed with her h because deep down she knew that that was where her security was and that if she was true to herself she knew that she would never trust the OP. She also said that it took her 2 years to work through the affair and now she wonders how her h stood by her. Their relationship now is stronger than ever and they never discuss the affair. She said she just put it in a box, locked the lid and doesn’t go there. Guess different people handle it different ways and also there is the “male” factor. Don’t think they are real good at doing more than one thing at a time so that is why the affair becomes such a stressful situation for them.
My h seems a lot more relaxed at the moment. I am sure if she is contacting him she would be nagging him to leave and be with her, here would be a lot better option as I am calm… I don’t think that anyone can really say how they would react in this situation unless it happens to them. I didn’t think I would react like I have. Sometimes I too wonder if the prize will be worth it. Sometimes I wonder if I want him or I just want to win the battle!!!
February 20th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Jessi – I understand exactly how you feel! I also think the OP is laying awake nights (she lives alone) thinking about how she can get to my H’s emotions and break up our marriage.
Did your friend say it took 2 years to get OVER the OP?? That’s the part I have a difficult time with. Thinking that he is hearbroken and missing her. I just have such a hard time with that everyday! Everytime he seems quiet, or down, I think he is missing her. Then I think I deserve so much better than him!! UGH.
Yes, today is a down day, but I hope tomorrow is better! Usually works like that. Comes in waves as my therapist would say! Just hope someday the waves turn to a calm peaceful ocean for all of us.
February 20th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Aside from the issue of whether or not I was losing respect for myself for staying, was the overriding injustice of staying here while seemingly HE decided what HE wanted to do. I think that is the feeling that lead me to wake up and say, “Hey! Why is it his choice? I get to decide what I want for ME!”
February 20th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
It does seem like it comes in waves and I guess it will for a while till we really sort through what we want, not think about how they would feel they have done enough damage to us all.
I don’t know if they have bad days or not and if they do good for them not that they cared enough what we thought when they disrespected us by doing what they did. How can we have respect for them they have none for themselves and I don’t think any of them deserve mine.
I am also having a difficult day and not because of him just me I got to thinking about so many things and just got down in the dumps. I think I just want more and when I look at him I think how can I do this after all he has done. His look is so different that he seems to be a stranger to me and when he looks at me it is so different, what is he hiding is all I can think who knows if I’m right or wrong he lied to me for so long and I believed everything he told me that I don’t listen to myself like I should. I have become complacent about so much just to keep my own sanity better than always screaming in my own head. They just don’t have a clue what or how women think and what about the OP how do they say, gee it’s been fun but time to go. How heartless they become so quickly without a blink of an eye I could not do it. I will never get it!
Like the rest of us I can’t read tea leaves so I guess we will all have to do the best for ourselves and salvage what’s left of our hearts the best we can. It has not been an easy road for any of us.
Have a good night.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:53 am
Liz, yes she did say that it took that long but as time went buy she thought about him less and less she also mentioned that this didn’t stop her from getting closer to her h. It actually made her see more clearly all the good things in him. I don’t beleive for a minute that my h doesn’t think about the OP from time to time, just hoping it is happening less and he is starting to see her for what she really is.
I don’t know how the rest of you feel but I am more hurt by the lies than the infedality as lies can happen at any time and you start to wonder what is real.
Lets all have a better day tomorrow
February 21st, 2007 at 9:09 am
Hi all
I think getting over the op depends on many factors.
It would depend on their contact with them, if there is none and hasnt been any nor will there be i think they will get over them very quickly. But if they are still involved i dont think that they can get over them at all until the ties are broken. For those whose h may still be living with the op, then i dont think they have even made the decision as to what they want as if they did they would nt be living with them and how could they possibly forget someone they live with and bed every night. the op person clearly has to be gone to move on and forward to me there is no doubt in that, if they are still around it will always bring gloom to the relationship, and hover like a cloud. If only the h’s could put themselves in the wives shoes then and only then mite they see the lite. if they were the one in that position. Whats that old saying what is good for the goose is good for the gander became a saying for a reason. and while it is not something that people should always adopt as a solution, I do think for those still in turmoil may prove to wake up their counterparts as to what it must feel like. just a thought take care everyone.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:54 am
Hi all –
I think Iam at a huge low point today. Last night, not good. I calmly and rationally brought up to my H the fact that when he took tons of calls from the OP, and then told me that my call “could wait, etc” was very hard for me to take. He did just what I figured, got all mad, defensive, and said all roads lead back to the affair! I finally figured out it’s useless to tell him how I feel inside. I read that the only way to get past an affair, is by allowing the betrayed person to talk about it, vent, etc. Well, I just don’t think he has the capability to allow me to do this. I don’t know if it’s guilt, or what, but it’s really getting harder for me to deal with.
Sandy – I don’t look at him the same either. I feel like he is a stranger and the guy I was married to for 10 years, is a memory.
It’s so painful to remember our past, before the affair, and how different I felt then. Even though we had problems, I still felt secure. It’s so sad to think how such a selfish act, can destroy a family, extended family, kids and a future. Gosh, I just think some people realize this (US) and know that the risk is far too great!! I just can’t believe they don’t see it that way!
Jessi – the lies, are far worse for me too. Because they look you in the eye, and tell you, and you believe them unconditionally, then you find out how easy it was for them to lie to you. UGH. I totally agree. And, the sad part is we wouldn’t accept that behavior from a friend, or stranger, or co-worker. So, why do we accept it from our spouse? Is it because we have a history? a family? or, are we afraid to be alone? I just don’t get it.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:00 pm
Jessi, you are right about the lies they are the worst by far and I look at it as it’s not what he did so much as how he went about it. The rudeness, lying, cheating, verbal/emtional abuse if he would have just been honest and said this is not working out well for me any longer and I want to move on with my life I would have had so much more respect for him than all the games he played and played me for such a fool.
I think the lying is the worst for many reasons one is because once they start they don’t stop and it piles up to the point that they cannot remember what they say to whom. It becomes a life style for them and they can’t quit. It’s just a shame that men/women that do this have no clue what it does to the wife/girlfriend/fiance, it changes them inside and they cannot fix what they broke because they don’t know how that is why I believe they think forgive and forget and press on. Shallow thinking on thier parts to say the least if they think all they have done just gets wiped out by thier imature thinking they had better think again because it does’nt work that way, they just don’t see it. Hard for anyone to admitt this sort of guilt to themselves because they see what they have done but cannot except the responsibility for thier actions as I think it is to painful for them to admitt in some cases that they made a mistake. That is only if they even have a shred of anything left in themselves and most don’t. They are just shelfish, arrogant, defiant, uncaring, rude people I don’t know how they can even look at themselves in the mirror and feel good about themselves. I never could!
Off to do chores for the day, have a great day
February 21st, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Sandy… I wonder if they do feel good about themselves… my guess is that they don’t that is why they can’t talk about it. I would say that they are hurting themselves as well as us and everyone around them. For me this is the first time it has happened in 21 years and although it has dragged on for over 2 years in the scheme of things it is only a small amount of time. When I take everything into account it is just a mistake that he has made and all the good things in our relationship make it worth the chance to put things back together.
Had another text from the OP’s h again last night trying to cause trouble between my h and I. It is actually having the reverse effect it is making my h more protective, affectionate and concerned for how I am feeling. I think now he can see something happening to me that is a result of what he has done. Wonder where all this will lead to.
Hope you are all on top of things today, just remember how far you have come and it is okay to have a bad day
February 21st, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Hi all – just a couple of thoughts to add to this discussion – I agree that they have learned to lie really well – and that is scary!! I have reminded my H often of that and asked, “so help me understand how I am now supposed to be sure that you are telling the truth” – tough question and “because I said so” isn’t exactly enough of an answer – but you gotta work that out between the two of you. The other things I think of are the reasons for the lies and what purpose they served – obviously during the affair they served to hide what they are doing from us because they don’t want it out in the open – but is that because they find the secrecy a turn-on? is it because they really don’t want to end the marriage but know that if we find out that might happen? none of those is a good reason to lie – but it helps to try to figure out what they gained by lying.
One of my very best friends gave me a good piece of advice during all of this – she told me to keep him until I didn’t want him anymore – that was also a tough decision – did what he did mean he was a different person whom I could no longer respect or want? – or was it that he did something truly terrible and yet was still the same person but screwed up? I admit that part of this is all the years I have in this relationshop – 41 – so as I have said I might have dealt differently if I was younger.
I too was told by my H that I was seeing everything through the lens of the affair – this happened when I became upset about our son’s sharing that his relationship with his girlfriend was in some jeopardy and that he was “noticing” another girl – my H told me “don’t make this about us” – but they do need to realize how this experience changes your worldview and for awhile, maybe not forever, we will look at things through that lens. I also had told my H how sad it made me that I knew he had been romantic with the OP and that he wasn’t that way with me – similar to your situation, Liz, about his taking many calls from her but giving you a hard time about your calling him. All I can say is that I have come to realize that we simply get nowhere comparing what he did with her to what he does with us – we can ASK for what we want and TELL what we need – but I think we are better off doing so without the added part of saying, “well you gave her this or that so I want it too.” I think that sends the message that somehow we will always judge everything they do up against what they did with the OP – and frankly although we are quite justified in doing that for awhile, it is probably best for everyone involved for us to work on stopping that – so I am thinking that it might help to tell our H’s, “look this is the way it is now with me right now – hopefully it won’t be that way forever – but we both need to work on stuff to get there together.” And frankly he has become romantic with me again.
I know that my H’s OP wanted him to defy me – when he told her how guilty he felt about not telling me that he had seen her in Nov. and emailed her a few times, she called him a coward and a wimp and even accused me of setting him up, that is, of tricking him into telling me that this had happened – I don’t think she realized (or he does either) that part of him was glad that I confronted him – it saved him from confessing to me and it gave him the perfect “out” – to tell her that I felt as if he was lying again and I was right and that he just could not go on hurting me this way by being in contact with her and not telling me – he claimed that she offered to talk to me and reassure me that she was not a threat – that she really did just want to be friends – fortunately, he was finally able to see that it wouldn’t work that way – and frankly I don’t think he wanted me to meet her for several reasons – partly to protect her in case I ever ran into her myself and wanted to be crazy, although he knows perfectly well that I know her name and where she lives and can find her if I choose.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Hi all.
Haven’t written in a bit as I am having a really hard time as well. It’s been four days where I have truly felt that I need to move on. I am no longer helping myself or us by allowing a relationship while he is living with her and continues to hurt me. At least once a week he blows me off because he ‘can’t’ call……read……doesn’t want to hurt her feelings by calling me when he should have.
While I write this he is working in the other room. He doesn’t seem to know what to make of my calm retreat. I am very sad, but also not feeling as in turmoil as I have in the past. I feel, for now, that I will keep the ‘business’ demeanor (in a sense) and not take any drastic steps until I feel more comfortable in this mode.
Small and big steps for me. It’s hard not to share the day to day with him as I am currently working 12+ hour days and need some release. But I don’t really want it to be with him. Clearly he can’t decide…..despite what he says. So I have to let him go…..for my own sanity. I feel like I’m in a place where in order to move on for myself I have to rid myself of the current, daily pain.
So…..he just left…..crying about how he loves me. I am eerily calm. I told him you don’t treat people you love like this. I do not expect anything from him right now. This wasn’t an ultimatum. It wasn’t a ploy. It just is. I just have gotten to the point of not being able/willing to take the abuse any longer. No matter how loving and kind he is to me all the other time…..the pain is too much.
Not sharing any longer………..
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:08 am
Hi All,
Gee, we all seem to be having a bad week. Me included! For some reason, every day this week has had some sort of issue between us. Tonight, for example, I was supposed to go to a jewelry party with my sister-in-law. I never spend money on myself, and I was actually going to buy birthday gifts for family members, and to have a night out. Anyway, my H got all upset about money and made it seem stupid of me to be going to this. Well, you can imagine how I took it, and yes, I compared it once again to the affair. Compared it to all the drinks and dinners he bought her, and God knows what else. So, I sorta blew up and told him I would buy whatever I wanted, I have a job, etc….
Then, he called me from the cell phone and apologized. But, for some reason, the apologies, are not effecting me anymore. It’s like lip service after all he has done. I can’t tell you how many times I have heard “sorry” and after a while, you wonder why a person needs to apologize so many times?
Anyway, I am in a better mood, went to the party, had a great time, bought some gifts and tucked my kids into bed. I started thinking about all the good in my life, my children being of course the absolute BEST! And, it was weird, but I find myself caring less and less about his affair, the lies, the crap, basically. I am actually starting to like myself so much more than him and the OP.
Granted, I will have bad days, and it’s far from over, but everything I read says there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I think I am starting to see a glimpse of that light!
Sue – you are not leaving our blog are you?
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:11 am
Hi Sue – just wanted to offer my support and encouragement – it takes a lot of courage and strength to know what you want and need and how to extricate yourself from the pain as best as you can for you – please keep taking care of yourself and ask for help when you need it
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:56 am
Good Morning All!
When I look back and try to imagine what my H could have done differently in order to have effected/encouraged a stronger bond between us, I often think that if he had been totally honest with me from the beginning we would be at a different place right now. I call him “Mr too little, too late”. It’s as if he cannot see the consequences of his actions & make course corrections. He can only learn by experiencing the consequences. And we are in the consequence phase right now. I do not care, nor do I have the energy, to work on anything more where the marriage is concerned. I wonder, if I had reached this point sooner, if he would have opened up sooner. You know that Janis Joplin song that goes “freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose”? I think the fact that all is lost here (iow: nothing left to be gained by his attempts to control or manipulate the flow of information, the direction of our communications, etc.) has caused his sudden willingness to see what role he played in the destruction of us and take some responsibility.
I find myself spending more and more time defining, imagining and manifesting a healthy relationship. First with myself, by identifying the reasons I did not require that in this relationship and then by playing with the thought of a “whole” me in a realtionship with a “whole” other.
We must learn to honor ourselves; our hearts. I have come to see that this is the reason why what happened happened. Sad that it took this huge “event” to wake me up, wishing that the journey was easier, but understanding & trusting that I will emerge with my trusting, loving heart intact…with or without him (because that is my sincerest wish for myself!)
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:12 am
Marlene, I get the pic that when confronted it was a way out for him, been there done that. When I told him I saw them together he was freaking out in his mind and I could see it he could not look at me and I told him what I saw where and who was there. He looked right at me when I saw them together and he looked through me like I was invisable. I could not believe he did not see me but he did’nt and I watched and it made me sick I was affraid to get up and leave as I was crying and did not want to start something in public that I could not finish. I told him the play by play of what went on and what date it was and it went like this.
My girl friends wanted me to go out for dinner with them because they wanted me to get out of the house so I went. We were having a glass of wine with our salad and in he strolls with her holding hands and all lovey dovey and to the bar they went, she reached up kissed him and he pulled her to him and gave her a great kiss back. That night when he came home he gave me this big BS line about his workout at the gym, what a joke. I said nothing at this time I just wanted to dijest it all and then say my piece. Saturday morning he was really rude to me and I told him to get out along with numerous other things I said to him and then I told him I saw him with her he almost crapped. I told him all that I saw and he said to me now that you know who she is what are you going to do about it, I said nothing she is not worth my time and neither are you. He buried his head on my shoulder, he could not look at me and I think he was glad he got caught that way he would not have to admitt or hide it any longer. I think he felt a wieght was lifted off of him because I knew who she was and I think he thought I would contact her, I would never unless she said something to me and then I would just walk away as I really feel she is just a tramp and looks like one not worth the mental pain to me to even give her the time of day. She has no class what so ever by her actions alone and he lost all he had in the eyes of many including me. He has been coming home ever since but I like many of us I have been going through this now for 2 1/2 years and only found out last June about it all. What a night mare!!! I really don’t know what to believe about him anymore there does not seem to be much left as far as I am concerned, all the I love you’s don’t make up for all the time/agony/pain he dished out, he’s like a bad left over you find in the fridge after a week and I guess I feel this way because it’s hard to think of him/her together and thier escapades. All of everything is just gone no small talk about our day it’s just a blank. I think now I really don’t have much to say to him any longer about anyhting. I hate this way of living never knowing what he has on his mind or how he feels, it just a nothing atmosphere around the house anymore. I will never love him like I use to as I will never trust him again, he went way to far for to long.
I will do what I have to do for myself and without thoughts of him this is a hard thing for me because like us all I’m sure we put our partners ahead of ourselves in many aspects of daily living.
Chore time again, have a nice day.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Hi all… has been a bit of a down week for a few.. oh well tht means next week is going to be fantastic. Sue, I hope you don’t leave the bloggs, we are all here to support you. Take care of yourself.
Liz glad you can see that light at the end of the tunnel. I too can see it although it is just a flicker it is there. My bad week has been just the games my head play with me. I think as things get better you feel more vunerable as you are scared to be betrayed again. Having her h text me trying to upset me isn’t helping. My h has been acting very differently this week, been home on time, not getting off side when he is going somewhere and I ask if it is okay if I come as well. He is happy for me to come along. With all this crap from the OP’s h he seems to be more caring of me.
Sandy that must have been really hard seeing them together… think I would have thrown my drink at them!!! When I found the first text messages on h’s phone I also think he was relieved. Every time the affair started up again I always got a gut feeling and then he would slip up and I would find out. Once he actually sent a text message to me that was meant to go to her. He had purchased a prepaid SIM card so he communicated with her on that as it didn’t show up on his phone bill. It is almost like he does it subconsiously so I find out. I read somewhere that if the partner having the affair doesn’t leave in the first 6 months that is gets less and less likely that they will ever leave.
The secret thing gets me as well… is it the secret that creates the excitement or is it because they really don’t want what they are dabbling in!!
I am also getting to the point that what has happened has happened can’t change it, it was happens on a day to day basis now that is important. I have a feeling that we will get to a point where we will never talk about it again it will just be a thread that will be woven into the tapestry of our lives.
Heres to a better tomorrow
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:36 pm
Everyone…..so not leaving the blogs! I meant I’m done sharing him!!! Sorry for the confusion.
Today was another really tough day. I am more ‘at peace’ with me…but that also brings a lot of pain. Lots of spontaneous tears….but also very healing. I do not have any family support (they have not called since 1/2…despite messages I’ve left) and no husband now either. It is really painful. Good friends are great, but it is not the same. Kids are everything….but they need to be kids.
I will get through this and know I will. Dealing with a lot of old issues and it is about time I’ve made friends with myself. That gives me the strength to do this…..whatever ‘this’ is.
I have no idea of the end result still…..know enough to know that…….but I know I am in a different, healthier place. I will stay in this place until I move on to the next. I would expect that to be when I take the kids on vacation by myself. Scared to death of that, but will do it. (In two weeks!)
On another note, he said he’d call today……and hasn’t………..I didn’t expect him to, but it does make me wonder. He is coming soon as I have to work again. After he left last night sobbing I find it odd that he would not make any contact today at all. Glad I’m not focusing on this…it’s more of a curiousity. That feels much better. Will keep you all updated.
Going to try to make those vacation reservations now!
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:08 pm
hi…..I am not leaving the blog! I already wrote a note….and I thought posted it…but it seemed to go into the neverlands. I meant I was done sharing my h! Sorry for the confusion.
Since I’ve already written one note, I feel a bit spent. Long day again today. I am more calm, but very sad. Dealing with lots of issues….but dealing. Not a roller coaster right now…..just going throught the next stage I think.
I will stay in this stage as long as I need to. I don’t know if he’ll really feel the pain of losing me until I move to the next stage. He seems a bit tenative tonight, but more comfortable than last night and never checked in today as he said he would. Don’t care much..just observing.
Caring about me and making friends with myself. And although the realizations are painful, they are also a relief. I don’t have the family support I need and now I don’t have him either. That is very hard. But I know I will come out on the other end of this stronger.
I don’t know where this will lead…..still have learned enough to know that…..but I know I won’t lose what I’ve learned in this process and we won’t be together unless she is out of the picture. If I move to the next stage without that happening than that possibility becomes even more unlikely than it is now.
We have mc tomorrow….what could I possibly say there??? What will he say??? I feel it will be the last one, if not forever, than for a while. We’ll see.
He’s here now working and I so want him to leave me alone. Not in a nasty way……just because it is hard knowing he is here. That part will need to be worked out as well as the kids…..so much damage.
February 23rd, 2007 at 12:19 am
Liz i will respond to your entry on the blog with one comment so will be 2, lets move guys this one is too long
February 23rd, 2007 at 10:12 am
Any thoughts on where we want to go? This conjures up a funny picture, doesn’t it? All of us searching for a place to communicate!
Sandy – to echo others – phew!! and I thought that I had self-control! When I found her valentine’s card to him last year, I only woke him up and told him that I knew about the OP, never told him what evidence I had – I agree with Jessi, I think I may have caused a scene if I had witnessed it in person – as it is, my girlfriends are amazed that I can pretend not to recognize her when I encounter her in our town – I am a special ed administrator for a school district and I chair lots and lots of difficult meetings so I guess my job has taught me some self-control and how to hide my feelings if I need to. I also agree with all that Jessi said in her last post – I feel as if my H “dropped breadcrumbs” starting around the summer of 2005 and again by telling me how unhappy he was with our marriage in Nov 2005 – he was too much of a chicken to tell me up front about the affair but it didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out – I was just in denial for a few months – he definitely left stuff around where, with very little snooping, it could be found. As far as it being hard to leave once an affair goes past 6 months? Yes, definitely – his lasted about 18 months and it took a good 6 months more for him to really extricate himself, which he claims to have done. As far as the secrecy thing – I think it’s both – the secrecy is enticing and romantic, first of all – secondly, I think that they do “decide” to live this double life – they truly believe that they are entitled to whatever they want (for some reason) or are in too deep to get out or some such BS – and so the secret helps them maintain that life.
At this point, my therapist and I have decided that there is not much more for us to do together so I am taking a hiatus and will not go back for a month or so, to check in. I am planning to tell my H this over the weekend and to hopefully help him see that right now he is the only one who can prove to me that my decision to stay with him and to trust him again (to some extent – don’t think it can ever be total trust again) is the right one. The last time we spoke about it, I told him that, after the relapse in Nov, my psychiatrist told me that I had too much patience with this situation – my H replied that he realized that I had been very patient but it was a good thing because by doing so I helped to save our marriage rather than allowing what he did to destroy it. I have told him repeatedly how much that “cost” me to do. His “cost” was ending it, feeling like he let her down and knowing how angry and hurt she was, knowing he let me down and had hurt me too – her cost was losing him, his support and the excitement of a love affair, reinforcing that she is attractive, etc. – if I were more of a vindictive person, her cost could have been even greater and I have reminded my H of that. But that is the way it has to be – EVERYONE pays when this happens.
February 23rd, 2007 at 10:17 am
If this group is looking for another place to connect, I suggest you join my new Infidelity Insider section. It has a forum where you can start your own usergroup. You may go to: http://www.break-free-from-the-affair.com/amember/signup.php. It’s free, at this point. You can become lifetime members. Oh, and I’m glad you are finding each other. Dr Bob
February 23rd, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Okay have we decided where to move to I agree this thread is getting way tooo long!!
February 24th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
I will use both of the sites for a while I guess allot of it is habit and being comfortable with the site made it easy to let out ones feelings and become friends in an odd sort of way through our mutual situations.
I have allot to sort through and it does not make life any easier but it has to be done. I am just ready and I have to say what I have to for me and his attitude in all this is not as imprtant to me as it ws before.
Let you know what transpires, should be interesting.
Have a great day
February 25th, 2007 at 12:20 am
Sandy–I am reading all boards too until we transition. I am a firm believer of saying what I want to say also. I know there’s much to be said for charging neutral, etc., but I had to let it rip many times before I was able to get to that point. After so many months of feeling something wasn’t right and having my H deny anything was going on…after all the lies that were told that eventually caused me to start to think I was crazy…I figured, once the truth was finaly out, that he owed me big time! I gave myself permission to say whatever I wanted to with NO censoring whatsoever! Is that point you are at right now?
February 25th, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Nicki: I have been at that point and further along also just to deal with it all in ones own mind is enough to make you think you are a little nuts. I am just ready to move on with my life with him or without him it really does’nt matter which way it goes any longer. I also feel if I stay that I sold out and I am not sure I can do that after all has been said and done, we’ll see. I am not looking to hold anything over his head or make demands that are over the top, I want honesty I doubt if I will get it but that’s what I want.
Marlene & Jessie: I could have created a scene but what would have been the point it would have made me the bigger fool of the three of us the place was loaded with people that know all of us. I also believe that he would have come to her defense long before he would have come to mine and I am not a bar room brawler biker chick like she is all I would have accomplished is getting myself hurt. I doubt if he would have cared one way or the other about what would/could have happened to me, maybe I’m wrong about that but his actions dictate my attitude. I have come a long way and the only person that I need to care about at this time is myself and what I want in my life and not worry so much about what he wants, thinks or cares about. I need to come to grips with allot just as we all do and that will come with time. I think I am to hard on myself and I need to stop that for me.
Later, have a nice day.
February 25th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Sandy–I understand. It seems these are all predictable phases we go through. If I hadn’t found this board, I would have never known that. I definitely experienced the “selling out” phase. I was trying to figure out how this squared with my own value system. I questioned what I meant when I took our marriage vows and at what point those vows were null and void. Know what I mean? It didn’t make sense if only one of us was going to honor them. Of course, none of this happens sequentially! There are so many emotions and changes simultaneously that it is difficult to track progress while in the chaos. I keep focusing on myself though and it has made all the difference. Once I realized that I could be victimized without being a victim I was able to cope better. Determining what I MUST have in a relationship allowed me to put the “sell out” issues to bed for once and for all. Once I was able to calmly tell my H what I had to have in this relationship, I was able to step back and just observe his actions to see if he was willing, or able, to deliver.
You have maintained your dignity. I really admire your strength! I am not sure how I would have reacted if I were in your shoes.
February 25th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
I just joined up to the new forum… hope to find you all there. Will keep a check here until we get used to the new format.
Sandy… you did the best thing, at least you walked out of there with you dignity. You would be the one that everyone had respect for. I admire you for you self control.
How was everyones weekend. Things are moving on the up here. I was feeling pretty low on Saturday when h was later home than he said. I was nearly going to say something and quiz him as to where he had been. He walked in with a very cheeky grin and wouldn’t tell me why!! Our daughter wasn’t going to be home for the night. Turned out he had bought a nice bottle of champagne and had a pleasant evening planned for the both of us. I am sooo glad I didn’t say anything it would have spoilt the entire night. Guess we have to let them find their own way to say sorry and it may not always be in words, don’t think he would even know what words to say to help heal, heard all the words but the action of planning something was a good start.
February 25th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Hi all – I will keep checking this site until/unless someone has a suggestion about moving – I have also gone to the site Dr. Bob suggested – it’s set up by topic, so it’s a bit different.
Nicki – about the charging neutral vs. letting it rip – same here – and I found that it was the times that I let’er rip that seemed to get the most attention (well that figures, I guess) I think the key is not to rant and rave because then it’s not heard – but you can let it rip without screaming – some of my favorite lines that I used if we talked about her included, “the solution to having breast cancer and an abusive husband is NOT to have an affair with a married man” and, when he was saying how troubled her life is (like I am supposed to feel sorry for her?), I believe I said “she needs to put on her big girl panties like the rest of us and deal with things.” So, I also had to get to the place where I didn’t censor anything – I think the key is that you give up on trying to control or determine the outcome – once you get there, you no longer feel the need to mince your words or to worry about timing, etc.
February 26th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Self control is something that I seem to live with in my life not that I like it all the time but I found in myself years ago that anger does not deliver what you want or mean to say to anyone as you can never take back the words once spoken. Hard to say even if you do apologize people never forget what you say to them, I am a prime example of that, I have never forgot all the words said to me throughout all this and he knows it. He trys to color and turn things around and make it all my fault that he lost his temper but we both know differently he just won’t/can’t admitt to anything.
I wonder about this six month thing, if they don’t leave in that period of time, I’m not sure about that. Who can determine that because if it ends and then they go back for more does that mean another six months. I don’t think they ever get over the person even if they quit the program. I think they develope a different attitude about them and to me there is no doubt they like the person or it would not have started in the first place. I believe he is still talking to her and seeing her I think they just got a bit more careful and sneaky. Just a gut feeling. It’s the trust issue here and I will never give that to him again, I just can’t. I will always question what he says to me as he lies so well, I can’t tell the truth from the lies. That to me shows a dangerous way of thinking if you are that good at it has it become a bad habit and once you start lying it’s a snow ball effect on everybody, they can’t possibly remember what they say to whom.
Marlene: Yes, they should put thier big girl panties on and press on and I heard all the BS about her, the problems, she just needs help, I like her she likes me, she’s my friend I don’t have any friends, what a line of BS, no pity here for either of them. I don’t know where they come up with such crap but it flows out of thier mouths like butter.
I am having a problem with the new site seems I go to sign in and it does not remember me, anybody else have that problem? I will be on this one till I can get it straightened out, probably just me.
The weekend was not bad could have been better but at least he is not spending it with her and that must really upset her. I don’t know what to think about her but she is nothing like me. I think we all wonder, I know what she looks like and by that can figure out allot but what did he see in someone like that in the first place I will never figure out. Maybe they think they fell into the Fountain of Youth through them, who knows.
Off to do chores typical monday, have a good day
February 26th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Good Morning All!
Jessi–Wow! Hope you had a lovely “healing” time together. I agree with you that the actions mean so much more than the words. And if the words and the action match, that would be the ideal, huh?
Marlene–You cracked me up with the big girl panties line! hahaha! I will have to remember that. At some point, once emotions aren’t so raw, and the chaos becomes a bit more controllable, it is so much easier to see, and state, the obvious. At the beginning there’s too much self-recrimination, I think, for us to do it. (at least I know that was true in my case) I have no self-control when it comes to censoring, but for those occassions where I “accidentally” (lol) charge neutral, I know I am coming from a place of self-empowerment because I can feel the difference!
Sandy–You know, I am not sure about the six month thing. I guess it just means that if they were going to leave they would have done it in the first 6 months. In a way that makes sense because the 1st 6 months were hell on earth for him around here.
As for the new site, there are a couple of glitches that I noticed. One of which is the need to log in multiple times during a session. It blows my mind to see how amny people have signed up over there! Who knew? lol
February 27th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Hi all – I started to reply yesterday but I was at work (it was a snow day for the kids, but I have to work anyway) and I got interruped and never sent my post.
I may have misunderstood about the 6 months thing – did you mean that an affair lasting more than 6 months is hard to end or did you mean that, once discovered, if it hasn’t ended within 6 months, it is not likely to really end?
I know that when I had a phone counseling session with Dr. Bob last March he asked me if I realized that most affairs do not end right away when discovered.
It was definitely longer than 6 months for my H’s affair because I confronted him last Feb and it ended in Sept, then he met and contacted her again in Nov and finally cut off all contact then. I think that the only thing that kept me hanging in there was that I did see “progress” and things were changing, although slowly at times. The timeline concept is pretty interesting – if you go on the “Dear Peggy” site, she says that most affairs last between 6 months and 2 years – that by 2 years, they tend to start to fizzle on their own. I found that significant because he started dropping the clues I noticed at around 16 months into the affair.
Jessi – that is cool – sort of teaches us not to jump at things and act with a cool head I guess. I do think it is his way of trying – I know that my H has more trouble speaking than acting – his “big gesture” was giving me roses and a card that thanked me for being so wonderful the day before Thanksgiving and I took that as his way of dealing with his relapse earlier that month. As I am sitting here typing this I am thinking that it is very important to really know our partners as far as interpreting gestures – although my H stayed with me after the discovery and claimed that he was “trying,” either he wasn’t motivated to make healing gestures (because of still being confused and ambivalent, still in contact with the OP), or he felt that he shouldn’t make such a gesture until he could do it sincerely. That is the way he has always been. So knowing that does tend to make me believe him more – his behavior toward me has definitely become more affectionate and attentive. Our biggest obstacle toward the end was that he thought that as long as things were good between us and improving that he could still maintain his platonic contact with her, that his contact would not have any effect on or be a threat to our relationship! I think that was his last ditch effort at trying to continue to be Mr-Nice-Guy-who-stays-with-his-wife-but-isn’t-a-heel-who-just-drops-the-OP. It took awhile for him to see that he had to cut her off for my sake and our sake. What’s really maddening is that you all know and I know (and so does he) that if the situation was reversed, he would never tolerate from me what he did to me.
February 27th, 2007 at 11:27 am
Good Morning Marlene,
You are so right about that if the situation were reversed we would have been thrown to the wolves without mercy.
The six month thing is hard to understand but I think you are right after 6 months it is hard to let go and it was 2 plus years I think they are still talking but he does not come home smelling like cheap perfume anymore, I do believe that part has fallen by the way side. When I look at him I see all the wasted time and the intimacy he shared with her and I got nothing for such a long time from him, no conversation/sex nothing it was a hard long time for me. I don’t think he has a clue how I think about this whole mess in one way all he sees is I was hurt and dumb founded by the whole thing. I doubt if he will ever really let her go and I don’t know why I feel this way. I am secure in myself but I doubt if I will ever feel truely secure with him ever again.
I also recognize the Mr Nice Guy I have the same thing here he does not want to be the bad guy. I have no clue what he has told her as he has never said and won’t talk about it, like it will just go away by itself. I guess time will tell but it’s tough to have any faith when it has been so shattered.
What do you tell a person when you decide the affair is over? This affair lasted 2 plus years and he lied to her she had to have known he was lying since he would not leave his home for her. What sort of person inside is she? Can’t be all that great or he would have moved on. I would not even know where to begin. When I confronted him about all I saw and whatever it’s as if he was glad he was caught and it was all in the open but I believe he has many fears over this since I know who she is. You wonder what they think about themselves. How can you feel good about yourself when you know the pain you have inflicted on your partner of many years without regret. Hard to understand that way of thinking.
Storms here also and lots of snow in the forecast so we’ll see what the day brings. Think I will just go shopping today and buy myself something wonderful, took the day off to just do nothing for a change. Through all this my buisness is the only think that kept me going or I probably would have left a long time ago.
I wonder how many regrets I would have after almost 20 years if I left hard to figure but I am to a point where one way or the other it does not matter to much which way it swings. Still love him allot but it’s just hard to put all that happened behind and press on with him. Second guessing ones feelings on this is a tough job. Is it worth the salvage job on both our hearts.
Have a nice day.
February 27th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Hi All,
Marlene – I think since I discovered my H’s affair, about 6 weeks into it, and he has now told me right when I confronted him, was the same week she told him she was “head over heels in love with him”…..so, I think that is also why my h lied about ending his affair, becuase I discovered it right when things were getting heated and heavy…so he went on for a total of 6 months. So, it sorta seems like he was a “textbook” case also. I think when they are forced into ending it, they get resentful. If they don’t end it on their own terms then they probably won’t do so? I don’t know. It’s easy to read it and have it explained but when you are the betrayed party, you tend to have zero sympathy for their affair problems!!!
Have to leave, I will post more later!
Have a good afternoon.
February 27th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Hi – I think it’s a mixed bag for them when discovered, as far as ending it – part of them may indeed resent having been caught and basically being forced to take some action – and heaven knows what the OP thinks about having been discovered – upset because the game may be over? or happy because maybe this will force the guy to choose them? our H’s may be secretly glad it’s discovered so that there is some kind of closure – my therapist thought that in my H’s case, he may have dropped clues to me because he was getting pressured by her and he didn’t know how to get himself out of this gracefully – I know that her valentine’s card to him (that I found last year) was in my opinion extremely manipulative – it said that she wasn’t sure she wanted to talk to him on valentine’s day when he called because she would be upset wondering what he and I were doing that night but she didn’t want to bring him down, blah, blah and she also wrote that she didn’t want to lose his incredible love but that she knew that would happen some day and that really hurt, etc. – well, we all know that trick – she says, “I know you’re going to leave me” so that he will say in response, “no I will never leave you” – I know that my H’s way of dealing with the guilt about her was to stay in contact with her because it meant he wasn’t just using her and that the way he dealt with the guilt/regrets about me was simply staying with me rather than leaving.
As to how do you tell the person the affair is over? I thought my H’s email was great – he simply said that his being in contact with her was hurting me unintentionally and that he just couldn’t go on doing that because he loved me and wanted our marriage to work – that he certainly hoped that she would always be well but that he just couldn’t go on communicating with her and not telling me because he needed to devote all of his energy and attention toward our marriage.
I did a looooot of talking to my H during the last few months of their contact and I used every opportunity to point out that as a woman I understood her better than he did – that women don’t want part of a guy, they want the whole package; that this woman heard him say that he would never leave his wife and still spun out her fantasies so she really did not want to be his friend; that I needed to feel safe in our marriage and that could never happen as long as he was in contact with her, no matter what they did or didn’t actually do, that she would always be the person he cheated on me with; that she wasn’t listening to him but was simply clamoring for his attention even if the whole time they talked he was telling her to move on with her life and he was staying with me, she was getting reinforced; that basically he was being cruel to her because he was giving her hope – he listened – eventually.
February 27th, 2007 at 9:17 pm
Marlene,
I do believe I have the very same thing going on here, my problem is he will not talk to me about anything. I cannot get him to talk either he gets so angry and upset he cannot deal with what I have to say and refuses to contribute anything. I also told him the same thing she wants it all not you part time jumping from our bed to hers then back again. I know in my heart they are still talking not as much but he cannot let go and I don’t understand it either. He has been coming home since Nov on time or a reasonable time without the smell of her all over him like before and it was discusting how he smelled of her, I hated it. I don’t know if they are using each other or that the attraction is so great between them they both cannot let go. You are lucky that your husband seems to me to be more of a reasonable man, I don’t have that here. Wish I did.
I am beginning to think the lack of his talking to me will break this up in the long run as I talk and he just sits there & listens but does’nt hear what I am saying. It’s as if all the compassion has left his soul hard to explain but I feel like I am just here, but for what. I look at the old pic’s of us and then at the new ones and we look like different people at least I do, I don’t see the love in them like there use to be in either of us anymore.
He use to be such a loving man even in public with me now we are out together and nothing happens like it did before. You know the stuff holding hands/kiss a bit/arm around me it’s so strange in many ways it’s like he does not want anyone to see that we are a couple affraid maybe they will tell her they saw us together. He’s hiding from us both in different ways, he is just so different. I wonder if any of that will come back. I miss it all and probably always will. We use to be such a great couple before all this happened, at least I thought we were.
I have come so far in so many ways but when you love someone it just does’nt go away like running water. I think I felt so blind sided by it all that it took me longer to see what was really going on. I guess I just could not believe in my heart he could have been so cruel. Shame on me for being so trusting it will never happen again not worth the heart break.
Have a great night.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Sandy – obviously I don’t know your husband – but mine is also not “a talker” and he even said to me that the OP is like me, always wants to talk, etc. and he is not all that comfortable talking about his feelings – the few times he did, I got a huge flood of things – like it all spilled out at once and it was not always stuff that was easy to hear, believe me – but one thing that he did say once was that if he seemed “unemotional” when talking about the situation it was because if he let his emotion come through he would just cry – and one time he really did break down and I know that it bothered him terribly to do so – so it was like he was purposely trying to keep his emotions under control, even his compassion and regret about what he had done to me, to her, to himself, to us – but I agree that it’s a huge issue if he won’t talk at all – my H didn’t like doing it and most of the time he mostly listened to me rather than talked – I can truly understand what you are saying about his not letting go – I lived through that for months and it hurt terribly – I’ve told you the reasons why I think my H was that way – I finally came to the point where I said to him, “look I know that you are trying to be a nice guy and not feel like a heel by dropping her and cutting off all contact, etc. – you are trying to be a knight in shining armor here – but one way to really be a hero is to put your wife’s peace of mind and your marriage above all things and sacrifice this woman’s feelings and your own (about not wanting to look like a bum to her, not wanting her to hate you) for the sake of your wife and your marriage” In the end, it really comes down to doing that, doesn’t it?
March 1st, 2007 at 7:29 am
Like the way you put that Marlene. My h also doesn’t talk much… sometimes I feel like he has just swept it all under the carpet and nothing took place at all. The past few weeks he has been doing some rather nice little things, just have to be ok with him doing it his way.
March 1st, 2007 at 10:51 am
Good Morning Gals/Guys,
I told him that a while back about being Mr. Nice Guy and all the feelings he has hurt from his actions/attitude. I just can’t get through to him, I feel I have tried every path known to man, nothing seems to faze him one way or the other. I guess he will just have to work this out in his own mind but I feel he is in a state of depression and does not even see that. I have no idea what is going through his mind but it’s like there is a dark cloud around him that he can’t shake. Maybe it’s just the guilt if he has any.
Lots of years here to just throw away for us both maybe that has something to do with it. I am going to hang for a while and just see what transpires and go from there knowing I did try but only one person doing this does not make the pie whole. Maybe time is just the answer. I wish he would talk to someone but he thinks of that as a weakness. I did and it helped me to a point but not as much as I expected. I think about what Jessie said, under the carpet hiding in thier minds but sooner or later it will surface.
I hate to have a doom and gloom attitude about this and he has been better to me but I worry about him and his attitude. Depression as I see it needs help to over come, I never saw this in him really before though I have been glib about it with some of my comments but I know it is the real deal.
We are pretty stable in all areas so I don’t understand why all his worry about money/retirement. I think it must be an age thing he feels robbed for some reason. Allot may have to do with not having a father around when he was younger, he passed on and I don’t think he ever dealt with that, he did not have much direction after that. He is a successful person in his field with a good education and back ground but I don’t think he feels his accomplishments are what they should be. Who knows, I am just guessing.
Life is strange! I wrote him a letter and expressed how I felt and I he liked that better than having to listen to me. He read it and has been better ever since, I let him off the hook was the bottom line. I told him that he took a wrong turn in life and I would not go through this with him again but would be here for him if he wanted me to be, so the ball is in his court. The best I could do.
Have a nice day and stay warm to much snow to be outside today.
March 1st, 2007 at 11:59 am
excellent point about depression – I agree that is a factor in these situations – and men “cannot be depressed” they think – it is a sign of weakness to them – years ago I read a good book about this – it’s called “I don’t want to talk about it” and was about masked depression in men – great title, no? and people are often depressed when those of us looking on cannot figure out why because they seem to have so much going for them – I know that we think the only way for them to get by it is to talk to someone, that is, go to a therapist and I know that they often refuse to do that – at least my H has, saying that he “can’t” talk to anyone about this – but he can and does, very infrequently, talk to me about some deep feelings and did so more than ever during this whole crisis – I happen to be a therapist but I cannot play both roles at the same time of course – all I am saying is don’t abandon all hope – if my H could at times do some soul searching and share with me, any guy can – but it doesn’t work to ask them or tell them to “talk” – it really has to come from them and part of the challenge is that they believe that if they talk about it, it delays the healing, when actually it’s probably the opposite
March 1st, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Sandy, I read your post with interest, you could have been writing about my h!! I think he comes in and out of depression and although he has hinted at it at times he won’t admit it. Sometimes he talks but it takes a while for him to get going and I agree with Marlene, it has to come from them.
Things seem to be on the improve here but as things get better and I see glimpses of the man I married I get more and more scared that it is not real. Unless this has happeded to you I don’t think anyone can understand how much it messes up your mind.
Have we made a move to the other forum yet… maybe we should start a new topic so we can easily find each other.
Take care and do good things for yourselves
March 1st, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Hmmm..I have been trying to post at the new site for the past 2 days and keep getting an “invalid entry” response. Is anyone else having trouble posting there?
I am in total agreement about the the depression theory. My H has always been “moody”. I never really looked at that critically; more like I just chalked it up to his being “different” than me…and that it was okay (to each his own kind of thing). Since the OP came on the scene and all that followed, I was forced to see him as he really is: Depressed. His fix of the moment was the OP, but it could have just as easily have been alcohol or any number of feel good, feel better remedies that would be a form of self medication. He is working with his therapist to get to the bottom of this. To understand where the emptiness comes from, and to find a way for him to get to know himself–perhaps for the first time ever! That blows my mind because I just assumed that because I am introspective, everyone else is too! Wrong, wrong, wrong! She, he has learned thru the course of therapy, is a fantasy. It wasn’t that he couldn’t let her go. It was that he couldn’t let the fantasy go. The thought that someone finds him powerful, needed, in touch emotionally, handsome, witty and charming…all those qualities he feels are lacking in himself, she gave him gladly. Does anyone know where I buy one of those fantasies? lol Just someone who would follow me around for 2 days telling me how pretty, funny, loving and kind. Alas, I guess I am going to have to do that for myself. I think that’s what we have all been doing and I think we are doing a spectacular job of it!!
March 2nd, 2007 at 7:54 am
Hi all – I have not had any problem with the other site as far as getting on or posting a reply.
Jessi – you said it well – things are also good here but it does make you wonder if it’s real – the one thing that keeps me going in that direction is that he really couldn’t help himself from acting moody and distant, etc., when he was involved with her and then when he felt guilty about not telling me that he had seen her and had emailed her – it was subtle but there – so I have to trust myself to pick up on the vibes without feeling as if I am on “high alert” all the time.
Nicki – I have read all the addiction stuff as well and my H is very very addicted to smoking – he is off now due to some health problems but those health issues were the very same ones that precipitated this affair – you know the drill – maybe I will die in two years and I have to seize all that I can get, blah, blah – the problem is that there have been times in the last year when he has been trying to give up his fantasy and his nicotine addiction at the same time and it hasn’t been easy – I did say something to him once in Sept that gave him some food for thought, along the lines of what you said about wondering where your fantasy is – I told him that he needed to realize that he had now had the very heady experience of falling in love and feeling attractive and having romance, etc. – a brand new relationship with all the stimulation that brings – and that I have not had that experience – so he asked me I wanted it – and I told him no, but that there is a part of me that envies his having had that – which was why I looked to him now for a little romance from him.
March 2nd, 2007 at 9:15 am
Hi All
i have been on the new site but alot of unfamiliar names and soooo
many topics, to look through. I think it is easier to just blog here myself. it seems to me there really is no one topic but many that go togethr anyway. Its not about topics its about sharing with one another. with the exception of this blog getting long i find it much easier, we should just go to a shorter one liik last time.
What happens when the fantasy becomes a reality, My ex got her preg right away so he couldnt really walk so he decided to start all over leaving my family high and dry. She was only 18 and thought he was god and yes complimented him beyond belief.He was older and appeared more stable to her than other 18 yr old boys.
They have since married, i sometimes wonderif she will wake up and realize how stupid she was, She has no remorse or compassion for the way my self and my 6 kid were put in such a horrible position. and he has littl to do wiith kids and nothing with me which i am sure makes it all good and easier for her. He pays very little to us even though he has a good job he wont report it so these kids can benefit because then they would have to pinch more pennies. I honestly dont know how they wake up and be proud of themselves and look at themselves in the mirror i really dont, Glad things are better jessi. hope you share what up soon mari, we are all herr to support you.
March 2nd, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Well put Marlene about being envious of what they got to experience, must use that one at an appropriate time. Each day seems to be getting a little better here but I feel like a little kid waiting for some one to just come along and burst my beautiful big balloon. Do we also now have to learn not only to trust them but our own feelings!!! Will dicuss this one with my therapist next week. Will let you know what she says. We went out for breakfast this morning and when I got home from work h come in with a bunch of flowers. He used to do that all the time when we were first together.
Agree with the addiction thing, my h is an adreniline addict, nothing sinister just an athlete, they get hooked on the natural high and seek more. I think the affair gave him that hit he needed and now the secrecy has gone it is not so exciting, it just became to complicated and hard work so didn’t have the same affect. That is how I see it. H seems so much more relaxed these days and doing more for himself. Has even been talking about planning a trip early next year. At least now he is sounding like there is a future. Still don’t think he will ever get what he has done and if things keep getting better and we end up stronger then will it really matter in the scheme of things. I do think that he would think twice aboout doing anything like that again.
March 4th, 2007 at 9:51 am
Jessi – I have also talked with my therapist about needing to trust my own feelings as well as to trust my H again – his comment has always been that he believes that I will know if and when something is “off” but he also says that I have to keep thinking positively.
Not always easy to do, I know.
I did want to comment on what you said about the secrecy being part of the excitement and now that it is gone, it doesn’t feel as good to him to be involved with the OP. At one point, I asked my H why he started finally to talk to me about how unhappy he was in our marriage – although he did not reveal the affair, it was that stuff that made me get very suspicious and start to snoop – he replied that he couldn’t bring himself to tell me about the affair because he knew how much it would hurt me but admitted that he thinks he was trying to tell me that there was really big trouble between us and trying to get me to pay attention to it. So, if he now feels that he did this but that we have come out of it better, in a way it could be that he got what he wanted out of the affair – he got a lot of positive reinforcement from her and he got a second chance at maybe a better marriage – of course, there were a lot of terrible effects as well. So – as to whether or not he will think twice about doing this again – I don’t really know – part of me is concerned that he may have learned that it is okay because it seems to be ending up okay, but part of me knows how horrible it was in the meantime – my therapist told me, and I shared this with my H, that he hopes that we have learned that when we are unhappy about something or that something is bothering us, we come out and say it to each other and try to settle it between us rather than going off and doing something like he did or just brooding about it – my H agreed that he handled his unhappiness in a bad way and he finally said that he wishes that he didn’t do this – I agree that they can never really “get” what they have done but I also think that there comes a point that we don’t need to keep reminding them of it because that will get in the way of going forward. There are about 3 or 4 things that I will never forgive him for but I have learned that that is okay – I accept that he did them and accept that I can’t forgive them – and he knows how strongly I feel about these things – just for the record, they are: 1)he gave her quite a sum of money to help her out and when we spoke about it, said that he considered it “his” money because it was his pay for being the president of the teachers’ union – I told him that in my head there is no such thing as “my” money or “his” money in this marriage 2) he had to have angioplasty last May and in the email from her I saw in July she told him that she was so happy that he told he that she made him strong for the surgery because she didn’t tell him how worried she was but told him everything would be okay – I had told him that I was concerned about him and he ripped my head off, obviously comparing what I said to what she said – but in the meantime it was me who sat through it all with him – I told him how offended I was when I read that 3) one Mother’s Day during the affair, he reprimanded my son for not coming home in time for dinner, just coming to visit me – so there he was showing concern about how my son was treating me and look at what he was doing at the same time!4) when we were talking about it with our son, he said that he would not blame the OP, that he did what he did and it was wrong – I guess I have a really hard time thinking of her as innocent although she would like to think she was manipulated.
So it isn’t as if everything just blows away and goes back to where it was – this changes things and I guess what matters is the direction of those changes.
March 5th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
He Everyone!
Marlene –
I am dying over here, becuase I have a big “Mother’s Day 2006″ issue that I can’t let go (among a billion others, but that day is a particular bad one!)
I think it’s because of holidays and we put a value on them, then when our spouse disregards us on those days, it makes the affair seem that much worse, that they CHOSE to be with someone other than us. At least I know that’s it for me. I remember Mother’s Day I had a “gut” feeling that something was “off” and I suspected an affair, but had not proof. It came 3 days later! On Mother’s Day, he took me out to breakfast, then lied and went to her house for dinner. I don’t think I can ever forgive him for this stuff. I try and I get nowhere inside my heart.
We haven’t been arguing the past week, no mention of the OP, and he’s in a great mood (obviously). But I am still so indifferent. Would you believe he is actually trying to talk to me now! After all his ranting and raving that I talk “too much”….now, I am quiet, and what does he do? Calls me and says, “Are you OK? Is there anything wrong?” are you sure? I love you!”……hmmm. He must be in shock that I’ve dropped it. But that’s his request….so I dropped it and now he seems nervous. But, if I do tell him I am upset (which by the way is the truth) then it opens up the can of worms all over again. Then I get, “move on, we made a choice, you need to stop obsessing, blah, blah, blah”……ugh. So, we are being “polite” and it feels fake. I feel like I live with an absolute stranger now. Hate it. But, I am still on the fence for the kids. So, any advice from here on out?? Is anyone at this very stage?
March 5th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
Hi Liz – well I know that mine didn’t spend any time on Mother’s Day with the OP – but he may have called her, if not that day then certainly the day after – I forgot one other thing I can’t forgive – and this truly is the last one – and that was that he “brought” her into our home – not physically – but he allowed her to call into our home a couple times (we have called id so I saw that on our phone – once when he was home recuperating from the angioplasty last May) and he brought her photos and the valentine’s card from her
as far as what to do – I know it seems as if you are d—if you do and d—- if you don’t – and maybe that is what the two of you talk about – it can’t be comfortable for him either to do the “polite” thing – but there is something to be said about acting as if everything is okay because sometimes during it we really begin to feel as if everything is okay – or at least acting like we would act if things were all okay – does that make any sense? it’s sort of a “positive thinking” approach. If I think of anything else I will post later on
March 6th, 2007 at 8:48 am
Morning All!
Liz–I am not at that stage. I have passed thru there unharmed though, so maybe this will help. Keep a journal Write all your observations and questions in the journal. (I actually write emails to myself with this info in it) Keep your eyes on YOU! Be clear that it takes two, but you have done the work for 2 for years and it’s exhausting. It seems the one skill I had forgotten all about is the process of self-preservation, self-acceptance, self-nurturing (whatever you want to call it) No matter how tempting to ask a million questions, know in your heart that you ALREADY have all the answers!
My H is seeing a therapist weekly. I have made the marriage contingent on continued therapy. I can’t remember, but does your H see a therapist? I can say that this “ultimatum” took alot of pressure off of me! These “cheaters” wouldn’t be caught dead blogging, as a rule, b/c that would require introspection and that is a skill that they simply do not have. We likely have trained them that we’ll “handle” whatever come up in our joint lives and they are free to move about the cabin with ease–while we struggle getting on the plane with the kids, the toys, the diaper bags (metaphorically speaking) I consider therapy forced introspection. The message: If you don’t know yourself, how on earth can I ever know you?!
Now, when my H tries to make something about me or something I need to do for him, etc. I merely say, “Why don’t you talk to your therapist about that?” (It helps that I know she isn’t a pushover and his charm has no effect on her)
In order to remember who I am I have to be vigilant to ask and answer this question: Whose problem is this? If I didn’t create it, I don’t own it, therefore, cannot fix it!
Yesterday, after therapy, my H stated that we needed to decide if we are committed to the marriage Hmmm…who’s having the problem with commitment? Not me. That only leaves one other person. I said, “Yeah. Good idea. Talk it over with your therapist next week and then let me know what you mean by the word “commitment”.
I am sick to death of the endless discussions that don’t lead us to clarity. Know what I mean?
March 6th, 2007 at 8:50 am
…and I was referencing the endless discussions with our spouses, NOT our discussions on the board! lol
March 6th, 2007 at 9:03 am
Ok…I just remembered one more thing my H said yesterday:
“I don’t think I can handle you not trusting me”
Cry me a river, man….He had about a dozen opportunities to “do the right thing” (share with me when the emails came in, when he called her, etc) and each time he chose to hide it from me.
Surely he can’t be serious that my not trusting him is a problem that I need to deal with! It’s so ridiculous as to be hysterically funny!
So, one more time I turf his issue to his therapist in order to avoid another non-production, potentially hurtful, circular conversation. (“Be sure you write that on your list to talk to your therapist about, okay?)
March 6th, 2007 at 9:34 am
Nicki – Oh my gosh, my H said that too, but more like this: “you have to decide when you are going to draw that line in the sand!” I said, “line in the sand??” he said, “yes, you have to draw a line in the sand and decide when you are going to trust me again!” It’s hilarious! This is from a man, who lied for months, I dropped a divorce, he was seeing the OP the entire time, lied, had sex with her the mornings of therapy, took her to my families vacation home AFTER he said to me the week before, “do you think I could ever get away with it again?” hmmmm, well, if he wasn’t so damn stupid as to use his cell phone again to call her, then yes, maybe! UGH. Then he talks “line in the sand” about trust!
OK, this is the LONGEST we have gone without fighting or talking about the affair……and, I think he’s blown away with this. He called me again this morning on the way to work and said I seemed quiet! Amazing. I hung up the phone, and turned up the radio and I was actually in a great mood for the first time in months! Maybe becuase I see that I have options, I didn’t destroy our marriage – he did! And now I feel like observing him and seeing what he’s “made of” from this point on. I want to see some proactive action. Not just living day to day and not calling the OP! I think he thinks that is all that is necessary and we will get past his affair.
I look at it like this: if you destroyed property as a teenager, the judge would most likely give you “community service”…he or she would expect you to make restituion for your actions/damage. Well, that’s what I want to see from my H at this point. The judge wouldn’t just say to the teenager, “well, you screwed up, just say your “sorry” and stay home every night..and don’t damage anymore property, and we’ll forgive you” That’s how I view my H. Like this guy who says things like “I am sorry, I can’t take it back, what can I do?”, etc. I am tired of hearing his rhetoric, does that make sense?
Yes, I will keep a journal and the e-mailing is a great idea!
MS- How are you??? I hope you are OK!
Sue – What is happening with you??
Eveyone, thanks for keeping me “sane” right now, you are all lifesavers to me becuase I don’t feel so alone!
March 6th, 2007 at 9:50 am
It was Liz, no clue why it says Anonymous??
March 6th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Liz–I like your observation about community service. I have long suspected that my husband’s way of getting “absolution” is by “doing the time” for the crime. Like a convicted felon who eventually gets out of jail after serving time. Don’t you think that’s what they’re really asking us? (“How much time DO I have to do here before you let me off the hook?”)
We are asking for them to take responsibility for the crime and do the inner work necessary to prevent the wrongdoing then show, by their actions, how much they have changed AND they are asking for the details of the punishment phase.
March 6th, 2007 at 11:46 am
So much has happened since saturday that sometimes I wonder if I a loosing my mind.
Had a good friday and saturday came and he said lets go out for a few drinks after we finish up the things we have to do. Ok with me I said, walked into the bar and there were 2 stools vacant so I sat down and a voice behind me said “how are you doing?” I said fine, I had no idea it was her it happened so fast but then he said hello to her I never ever looked at her just sat with my back to her. She dyed her hair the same color as mine and I just laughed to myself over that, what a pig, fat as a toad I could not believe that was her. He was so nervous and uncomfortable so he said lets just go down the street and talk. He said to her “Hi, I did not recognize you” I thought to myself you slept with her for 2 years and you did not know it was her, what a joke that was but I think she dyed her hair since he’s seen her last. I saw her car there before we went in and said nothing I can’t believe he did not see it but I was not going to be bullied by some tramp. That was not good for me all the way around. He wanted to leave because I am sure he thought that she would say something to me and he knows me well enough that I would never cause a problem. We leave get in the car and he says to me, “we were bound to run into her sooner or later and I understand how you feel about this but we will have to just get use to the idea we will see her out in public at times”. I let loose a bit and when we got home I said what I had to say. He wants this to work he told me and I would like it to also but here it comes again the trust issue. I thought long and hard about this and I am going to give it the best shot I can but both of us have changed so much that really in many ways we are strangers to each other. I guess we will just have to see what transpires but it was like my worst night mare coming to roost to run into her with him. He was fine till he saw her then he became so distant I think he was affraid of what the situation could have turned into on her part because this woman will do anything to get what she wants and I think he knows this. I believe he has let her go but she will never let him go and how far will she go is my worry. She is a very revengeful person, I don’t think she would do anything to him but me that is a different story. She is capeable of anything and I really believe that. Her house is known as the G Spot Coral in town the reputation she has here is unbelieveable and does not care, I think she is proud of it. I wonder if she knows what people say about her and if she does, what kind of a woman reinforces that opinion. I am just to straight laced I guess to understand it. He was such a respected man but that has gone by the wayside of what people now think of him, how sad is that.
I guess in my mind if he would have been with someone worth while and better than I was all the way around I could have understood it allot better but not with the town harlet and everybody knows what she is and she makes no bones about anything that she does. She has no self respect for herself and none for anyone else either. How he got so sucked in for so long with her I will never understand. There must be a dark side to them that we just do not see.
I have decided not to ever mention the whole thing again and if he brings it up so be it but I am done with it all, it’s to heart breaking for me still, I think it always will be.
Have a nice day gals hope all improves for us all.
March 6th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Nicki – I think that is EXACTLY what they think! They think they just have to do “time”, not “work”.
I love when he also repremands our children for things. Like the pot and the kettle at it’s finest! I think our children have more integrity, honor, and responsiblity than he has in his baby fingernail. UGH. Don’t let me keep going.
Today I journaled all the thingst that he did that I am having issues with. I don’t think the computer has enought “memory”…
well, not a good day, but I am not sad, just reflecitve of their utter selfishness.
Sandy – whew. If I ever run into the OP with him, I can honestly tell you, I have no clue how I would react. Our town is small, and she lives too close. Fortunately, it has not happened yet…..but it will. Just my luck, it will. I will try to be strong like you. Very impressive!! I know what you mean about strangers!! Feel the same way.
Take care I will post soon!
March 6th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Hi all. Had a good chat with my therapist yesterday. We spoke about the fact that he rarely talks about what happened. I have come to the conclusion that he will never know what words to say to make things better. On the other hand he has been doing little things that I have noticed. A bunch of flowers a bottle of champagne and then the other day he said he was running with some friends along the river. When I went for my run his car was nowhere to be seen where it usually is. As soon as he got home he told me exactly where he was and that he saw where I had parked and was worried that I was thinking he wasn’t where I thought he would be. That is a first, therapist said that it was a positive sign as he is now thinking about what is going on in my mind. She also said that these actions are things that require a little thought and this is his way of trying to put things back together…. that is just how some people do it.
In my mind I am sick of trying to figure it out. I just want to move on, put it all behind us and concentrate on the future. If it keeps getting dragged up then the OP is still part of the relationship… just leave her out of the whole thing, she isn’t worth any head space!!! H seems to be returning to himself and things seem fine but that still doesn’t remove that hint of doubt and only time and little steps forward will heal that. I guess we both know that this is the last chance won’t do it again and although it would be a sad day I know that if I have to walk away it will be the right choice and I will be able to do it without any bad feelings.
I guess we all have to come to the point of getting past what has happened and kicking the OP out of our homes by not even giving her the time of day, even in our thoughts because while the OP is comsuming so much of our energy she is still very much a part of our relationships even if h is not in contact with her. She is still getting her way!!! Need to put all your energy into yourself and your future with him or without him.
Oh one other thing my therapist said was to view the actions he is taking and ask myself is this something someone would do to preserve a marriage or destroy one. Remember that he wasn’t very good at expresing his needs that is why the affair happened in the first place so he may never express himself in words take special note of his actions. It makes sense as it was his actions that made me feel that there was something going on, not his words.
Thanks for all your posts they really help. Take care and do something nice for yourself today
March 7th, 2007 at 11:03 am
Good Morning Liz,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I had no idea how I would have felt and I knew sooner or later that this was going to happen. She has never really ventured into this part of town and I know she was only here because she wanted to see him and see if he was alone or with me. I tell you in so many ways she is so much smarter than I am when it come to these sorts of things she is a liar and can minipulate him so well and he does not see it, how can they be so blind or is it that thier ego requires that boost sort of like a child possitive or negative inforcement does’nt matter so long as they get the reaction they are looking for, and she got what she wanted from him and I know that. The bad part about this all is his reaction to it all, I don’t know what he expected to happen and neither did I but I saw it in his face he was terrified. No matter what he says I saw it and he can’t emtionally handle what he has done I saw that also. I think he knows the respect for him is gone in the community as everybody knows I don’t know how he can even walk with his head up after all this. If I would have been the man in this situation I would have reacted so differently if I really wanted this to work, I would have put my arm around my lady and held her tight and said to her I think we should just go somewhere else and have a good time. I got nothing from him and that bothered me so what does that tell her? That she still has a shot at him for another round or false hope he is giving her I don’t know all I know is it did not feel right. I don’t know if he will ever really let go of her. She has filled his head with such crazy stuff and I don’t know if he will ever recover and be the real person he use to be. He said to me he wants the relationship to be better, that would be nice if he could let her go it would be better this is the ultimate invasion of ones home. If he thought this was so bad why did’nt he tell me he wanted to see some changes, he said nothing to me. I knew nothing about what he was doing why did he hide for so long and only came remotely clean when he got caught and blamed me for all his actions? He does not get it and probably never will he just wants it to go away like it never happened.
I have been the better person but it has been really hard and he says he is trying but I know in my heart that this will go by the wayside in time as he does not/can not face what he has done and I will never trust him just the way I am. How can you live in a world without trusting your partner? You can’t and I cannot get past this, just me. I can forgive it all but some things will never be the same and I don’t want to live like this for the rest of my life not being able to trust the one I have loved for so many years.
Have a nice day, I will do something nice for myself today.
March 8th, 2007 at 12:39 am
Sandy,
I think it helps me greatly to know I am not alone, and neither are you and eveyone else on this blog. All these cheaters are so alike.
I was so sad today just thinking about my kids and how innocent they are. I dread the day they find out about their dad, and what he is made of. Thing is, my dad did the same thing and honestly, I think he has a lot of regrets. My mom said he cries a lot about his infidelities and how it hurt their marriage and us kids.
I don’t know, maybe it takes people a long time to reflect on their life and they realize they jeapordized the one true person that loved them unconditionally. That’s my dream at least, to think it effects some of them. I know not all of them but on some level don’t you think if you are human, it has to?
She sounds like a real case! My H’s OP, a real winner….. never would have pegged her as the person he would cheat with. Don’t get it, never will.
Well, I will post after our trip this weekend. Should be quite interesting!
March 8th, 2007 at 8:32 pm
Hi all, just catching up with your posts. I am in a very bad state at the moment. He cheated with the OP again and I called the lawyer to file for divorce on the 27th. He of course came running home, crying, please just don’t file blah, blah, blah. I called the OP and told her a bunch of stuff she didn’t know and that he was lying to her about and she confronted him and he told her I was telling the truth and she told him to go blow! Ha! What a crock! Anyway, he is off at a hotel “thinking”. I am here taking it day by day and not sure that I just won’t go ahead with the divorce anyway. I am planning to go to Florida for a week to see my sister at the end of the month. I also told my parents about the affair, as I was going to divorce him so I thougth they should know. That was the biggest thing, so now that’s over I just have to really tell my kids and then the next step is just making the divorce happen. Not sure what I am going to do. Anyway, I am keeping up with you all. Take care, Mari
March 9th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Mari,
That took allot of courage to call the OP, I never did that but she called my cell phone and I never told him. She left me a message one day it was only two words, not nice either but that’s what she is just sludge from the bottom of the barrel. What was her reacton to the call from you? I wish you the best, I don’t know long this has been going with you but hang in there you will know when it is the right time to make your final decision and it is all up to you he is the one that made the fatal error in your relationship. How old are your children? I would never myself say anything to your children by yourself I think it should come from both of you together to let them know they will always be loved and cared for, it’s very hard on the kids to hear it from one parent. Just my thoughts. He should be a bigger man about this since this was his doing and not yours you are just trying to survive the best you can and I understand that. I think if you told your kids all this by yourself and then what if it works out for you both what are they going to think about thier Dad down the road. I think that breeds other things if they are old enough to understand but if they are not I would say nothing. To much pain all the way around for everyone. I Thank God everyday mine are grown and have thier own lives.
Liz,
Read what I said to MS (Mari) I don’t know if that will give you some other insight or not they are just my thoughts. Hope you had a nice weekend and all went well. You are right they are all so much alike it’s as if they attended the same schools on being a cheating partner, they all seem to say the same stuff maybe a little different but the same. I think they have learned to justify what they did to themselves/us/her no matter what and it will always be the person who is the closest to them that they blame. No matter what happens it is a no win for everyone involved, we feel betrayed, OP feels betrayed if they come home to stay. He is coming home and I bet she is wondering now what I have done to make this happen, I know that also. I did not do what she thought I would do she thought I would pack up and go but I believed somewhere in my heart she would do herself in and that’s what has happened here. Her true colors finally came out and he did not like what he saw. He will never admitt that to her but he did to me, when he said, “I made a bad mistake sorry it took me so long to find out”, that tells me something came to pass between them that was not a good thing.
Had a great day I am going shopping for me.
March 10th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Hi MS – so sorry to hear that but it sounds as if you need to take some action and that you are doing so – hope that your trip will bring you some distance, both physically and emotionally, so that you get a break from all this
March 12th, 2007 at 9:12 am
MS – Hi, how did you find out he was seeing the OP again? Did he get “sloppy” or did you have that same gut intuition once again and follow up on your own? I am just waiting for the bomb to drop again on my end. I think my H is lying also about “no contact” and here is just one example of why I think this:
Back in Septemeber I contacted her and told her I knew they went on a trip together. Gave her all the details, that he provided as well. This was shortly after he supposedly ended it with her for the “second time”. I wasn’t what you would call “nice” on the phone with her either. I had some choice words about what she did to my family, her lack of respect, etc.
Now, if you had an affair with a married man, and he abruptly ended it with you, and his wife called you on the phone and told you that she was aware of this, would you then call the married man? I think YES!! Human nature! My friends think so too. What OP would say to themselves, “oh, I better not call him, he said we can’t have anymore contact”……please. She just got chewed out by his wife who told her she knew details of the affair (that she never thought would surface!) I know in my heart she got right on her cell phone and called him! He denies this, OF COURSE! He claims “no contact” still. Maybe there is a 1% chance he’s telling the truth, but after all I’ve been through, I don’t buy it for a second.
I know this is hard for you because I filed TWICE and dropped both. I know it was becuase of my kids. They tear me up inside with all of this. I know I have to make this decision for ME and not them, but it’s sooooo much easier said than done!! I am glad you are going away! He’s in a hotel room THINKING? Gosh, I love it. I love how it takes the big “D” for them to panic and THINK! My H did the same thing, cried when I filed, he was in a tailspin. Problem is, I thought the tears were for ME but now after much therapy, I think the tears were for HIM. I think they were more about frustration that he got caught, screwed up HIS life (not mine or the kids, or he wouldn’t have risked US so badly in the first place for his own gratification). I see him in such a different light. I like ME more than him anyday of the week now. The OP, well she’s just pathetic and heartless to me. They make a great moral pair. UGH.
How did you parents react to the news about the affair? I told mine the exact day I found out. In fact, I told the world. I didn’t care. I was soooooo mad. My parents are “done” with him. He apologized to them the first time and told them he was 100% committed to their daughter and would never do it again……….he called the OP the next week, and started right back up……needless to say, they are “done”
Please keep us posted. I am thinking about you!
March 13th, 2007 at 10:26 am
I think there is something that drives them to do what they do a second time. They don’t want to give it up in one way and don’t know how to stay away either.
He was to long in the relationship with the OP (2 years)and you can’t stop it, I know I can’t. After all the, I made a mistake crap he got home at 10:30 and I said late night and he went off. Did not have the smell of her all over him like before but something came to pass and I have no idea what happened but something went down he was angry and agitated. So in my mind he knew he did something wrong at least that is how I took it as it was portrayed. As I said before I was not expecting much of this, I was hoping but I guess things are just the way they are and I will leaving as soon as it all sells and press on with my life. This is a day to day thing with him it’s just not fair to either of us and I can’t put stock in a liar and a cheater, it’s not worth the mental effort and neither is he. I guess I knew deep down that this would happen again just did not want to believe it, I wanted so much to believe in him. Foolish me!
Planning on having a good day of it shopping with friends and lunch.
Best to everyone.
March 13th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Sandy,
I think that maybe they seem to go through it a second time when in reality they never gave it up to begin with. My H was hopeful every time he said goodbye to the OP that this time would be the last time. I think that until they know “what it was all about” they can’t leave it for once and for all.
We are not foolish for being forgiving and hopeful! Unfortunately for us, we do not know the whole story until it plays itself out.
Have fun shopping!
March 13th, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Sandy and Nicki –
I agree with what both of you are saying. I think some of it has to do with control. I think they are not going to let their spouse dictate when and how the relationship will end. Do you agree? I think they want to do it on their own terms, not being forced into it. Even though they should have no leg to stand on in the matter!! Turn it around on them, how would they like it if we kept it up after we said it was “over”? They would lose it!!
Last night was interesting with us. I had a phone conversation with him at lunch. I was at the end of my rope and told him that he should go move in with the OP. He goes, “stop talking ridicilious! it has been long over and I wouldnt’ be here if I didnt’ want to be!”….so I basically told him that I’ve come to the conclusion after a lot of thinking that they both would be perfect for each other. They both have no consideration of children and other people. They both don’t value marriage. They both are selfish and liars, and they both don’t care who they hurt in the process! I told him I feel really good about me as a person, I am a kind, stong human being that cares about family, marriage and people and that I would have no problem finding someone for myself! Needless to say, he was quite speechless. Then, when I got home, he had to leave to play on his card league. While he was gone, I was on the phone with freinds and my mom and he tried to call but the line was busy…..so he left messages on my cell phone. All about how much he loves, me and can’t wait to see me and talk to me. When he came home, he was all apologetic and told me he loved me, blah, blah, blah. He seemed really upset and wanted to talk. (funny how it’s OK when he needs to talk!)….and I basically told him that he needs to fix a lot of his damage, or I am gone. Done. He totally fessed up that he thought it would all “work itself out” and I told him life doesn’t work that way. When you hurt people, it takes making ammends to them, apologies, explanations. Things don’t just get shoved under a rug and everything bounces back to normal. He finally agreed and seems genuine about fixing things…so time will tell!!
Do you think I handled it OK, or was I out of line?? Thoughts welcome!
March 13th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Well done Liz… I think you handled the situation well. I hope we get to the stage where I can say something similar to my h. I think it is all a matter of timing so it has the right effect. I hope he starts to open up to you. I had an overwhelming feeling that something was not right the last few days and couldn’t bring myself to say anything. I called him at work today just to say how I was feeling, he said that everything is fine just has a few work issues on his mind. Things have been really good and sometimes I get so anxious that something is going to happen to spoil it all. We still don’t talk about what happened and maybe it is all a bit raw still but I have a few unanswered questions that would put me at ease.
March 13th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
Liz – excellent job, in my opinion!I remember when my h and I were talking during the time when he was trying to explain why he felt that he had to stay in touch to be sure she was okay, etc. He said something about not wanting to be cruel – I said “this is what happens when this happens – someone walks away hurt” He tried so hard to escape that reality – like she was just going to graciously withdraw and assure him that she would be just fine – she actually did tell him that at the end, mostly just for spite – which frankly was fine with me – and she is okay, that I know from various sources – so that’s another lesson, she didn’t curl up and die because he said goodbye
March 13th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Jessi – I know exactly what you mean about things going well!! Over the summer, we would have days that were really, really good when we were trying to “work it out” and in marraige counseling. We would go on picnics and dates, etc….and then, come to find out….he was STILL cheating all along! That is why I am sooooo shellshocked when things go well. I always think in the back of my mind, it’s a sham! And, they did this to us! They put this seed of doubt in our brains. It’s not our fault, it’s theirs. I am so afraid of getting “burned” again, I can’t enjoy things normally. Like even all during the holidays this year, I was waiting to find out he had secret contact behind my back. I just couldn’t enjoy the moments. So, I totally understand where you are coming from! And the worst part, is will we ever be totally trusting and comfortable with our spouses again after an affair? My fear is no. I want to believe it, but I am just not “there” yet. Oh well, at least we are not alone in this!
Marlene – My H would say the same things like, “I am hurting two people”, or “she always had hope” blah, blah, blah! Any woman that dates a married man, is setting herself up HUGE for a big fall! They knowingly date someone married to another person and I feel no sympathy for them! So, have you heard from other sources that his OP has moved on? See, I don’t have the OP in my circle at all, so I have no clue what state of mind she’s in, or if she’s moved on, etc…part of me could care LESS and the other part is curious if she’s still wanting him. I wish I had a clue! Ha!
I think becuase my “D” day is approaching in 2 months time, I am starting to feel some things really opening up again. I know it’s becuase of the time of year, and I associate it with their lies, etc….ugh. Did you pass your D day, and was it OK? I think you did but I am not sure if I remember correctly!
March 13th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Oh my. Liz…that was perfect! lol I did that same thing! After finding my H was googling apartments and jobs near her, I told my H quite calmly that he needed to move in to an apartment near her, find a job near her and the two of them need to work it out. (she lives in a different state, btw) I was so calm when I said it that his reply was, ” Is this a test?” hahaha…goodness gracious!
Jessi–you know I think you are right. We can try and plan what we are going to do or say, but timing is everything. You will know what to say when the time comes and all you have to do is open your mouth and it just flows!
Marlene–are you dancer on the other board? If you are, you wrote the most amazing post over there today about confrontation of the OP. I don’t want to paraphrase it b/c I wouldn’t do it justice. Is there a way to do a cut and paste so we have it here too?
March 13th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Nicki – what is it under on the other post? I want to read it!
I think that’s great what you told your H too!! I think they really flip when we basically tell them to “go for it”. One time during the summer, in one of our marriage counseling sessions, he blurted out in an angry tone, “I wanted you to fight for me!”…it just came out of his mouth. So, it was TRUE, he really didn’t want the OP over me, he wanted me to pay attention to him, the way that she did! Maybe I am wrong, but I really think it was more about losing control of me than anything. When we tell them to go for it, it doesn’t seem so special does it? The fantasy dies and we are telling them to go live with a real, living, breathing human being that comes with their own baggage, problems, insecurites, etc. and I really wonder sometimes if I WANT her to have the “prize”. I feel like going out and finding my own “prize” that doesn’t lie and cheat…ugh.
I am in a pretty good mood tonight, entertaining myself basically! Ha!
take care!
March 13th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
Liz,
I just went to the other site to try and verify which board it’s on and it seems that all the posts from today are missing. I am pretty sure it was under the “Obstacles I am overcoming board”.
March 14th, 2007 at 7:25 am
Hi all – yes I am dancer on the other site and same thing happened to me this morning – it didn’t have any posts past the 11th of March – so I can’t even pull up what I wrote there and paste it here – but if this is what you are referring to, here is what I recall that I wrote:
First of all I advised someone to not confront the OP as a way of now “proving” that she isn’t as nonconfrontational as she thinks she has been all her life – if she needs to confront, do it, but don’t do it just to prove something – then I said that I don’t know if I will ever have or take the opportunity to talk to the OP but if I did here is what I would say:
“You did to me what no woman should ever do to another woman – whether she knows her or not. I know that you have had problems but you have set a terrible example for xxxx(her daughter, whose name I know) about how to deal with problems – I pity her when she finds out what you did – and she will – not from me, because I am not into messing up other people’s lives, but sooner or later, she will find out”
as far as passing my D date, yes I did, on Feb 16th – fortunately I had a therapy appt. the next day – it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be – I just tried to focus on the positive and that helped – we are coming up this Fri on a very old anniversary for us – 42 years ago on March 16th we started going steady in high school – we go out with friends on Fridays and will be there this week as usual – he and I both mentioned it to them last week so I know it’s in his head – what I hope is NOT in his head is that I believe that they have an anniversary of sorts on the 18th -the love poem I found while I was snooping last year was dated 3/18(it was written in 2005) then last year, March 18th was of course after my discovery and confrontation but I recalled the date and sure enough found a letter from him, again dated 3/18/06, to her saying what a wonderful person she is, what an impact she had made on his life and that he does miss her and will always love her (he said that she asks him that frequently when they talk), etc. So I know that date means something to them.
As far as her moving on…no I don’t think she has a BF or anything – but I have seen her and she looks just fine and am aware that she has a number of friends and family who support her – right now she needs a job and is still, as far as I know, looking for one – since she subbed as a secretary at the Board of Ed office for a number of years I am hoping that something DOES NOT get offered to her there because as the teacher union president, he has to go there from time to time. As luck would have it, one of my old friends ended up taking the job of Director of Special Ed and his office is in that building so I always have an excuse to go there and check it out – so far she has not been there – I too would like some confirmation that she is “done” so I keep my sources open
I totally get what you are saying Jessi – that little devil on my shoulder comes out and says, “yeah he is acting differently toward you and nothing seems to be going on but suppose it is all an act? – suppose he is just better at disguising and covering up?” It’s tough but in the absence of hard evidence, which I have always been able to collect, it’s also hard to accuse or confront – he doesn’t even take his personal cell phone with him anymore and that is on purpose – that was the phone they used to communicate – he is not too swift when it comes to technology so when I check his business cell I can see all calls – I honestly think he has no clue how to delete calls from his phone – also, that bill goes to the union treasurer so he would have to account for calls – he deliberately shops in a grocery store in a different town now because he knows that she knows his habits – so I have nothing to hang my hat on nor am I getting funky vibes but it is hard to not be suspicious and I am hoping that time will help
March 14th, 2007 at 11:45 am
Marlene- and All!
Last night I was lying in bed thinking about something, this past summer was my cousin’s wedding and I had been looking real forward to going. When we reconciled the first time, we didn’t go becuase he would be uncomfortable around my parents at the wedding. So, we stayed home and went on a “date”. I really was bummed that I missed the wedding, but I declined for “US”. I didn’t go “solo” but looking back, I should have!
I was thinking that he went to a wedding with the OP in September, of people he didn’t know, friends at her work. For some reason, things like this just don’t get better in my head. The “inequity” of the whole thing is the worst. I know if this is going to work between us, I have to “let it go” to a degree, but I cannont. Not now. It’s like his just being here isn’t enough. I need him to go “above and beyond” just “being here”. Even if he isn’t cheating anymore like he claims, I still need him to make this nightmare up to me tenfold, or I don’t think this is the person I want to be married to anymore. I need a proactive guy.
Maybe today is just another “thinking day” where I need to vent. I don’t know, tomorrow is my birthday, and I don’t want to be let down by him, but if Valentine’s Day is any indication, I think it will be a letdown. I will keep you posted!
March 14th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Liz–I know what you mean for sure! And you need to think away!! lol What it boils down to when the dust settles is us asking ourselves “What do I need to have in a marriage/relationship?”
Do you think that we have become so accustomed to putting their needs first (and the kids, and our families, and, and…) that we no longer know who we are, what we must have, what we wanted at the beginning, and how to go about getting what we want and need.
It’s a good start knowing what we don’t want though! That will go a long way towards answering the other questions.
Thinking is
March 14th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Nicki – I think you are so right! And, don’t you think the affair honestly puts you in shock mode for a long time? And it takes a while to figure out if this person is “worth it”?
I also read be careful of the honeymoon stage after reconciliation and that the old problems will resurface. That’s where I feel we are at. I feel like there is not a strong enough foundation upon to which to build!!
I think it boils down to respect and trust. Of which, I’ve lost both. How on Earth do you stay married to someone minus those two qualities? I guess it’s possible but I really think the person who had the affair has to go above and beyond. And if you need to talk, they have to let you talk. If they don’t they are just making you resentful even more. My H doesn’t understand this. He thinks talking about it doesn’t “benefit” me. I think the opposite, It doesn’t “benefit” him.
March 14th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Liz– My H and I went round and round on the talking thing. I totally agree about the shock mode (it’s like having an out of body experience!) I finally figured out that each time I ask, I am asking for a different reason. I have so much to process that it’s almost like I am a different person every time I ask. (and I hear something differently each time as a result) He indulges me now even though he will always add, “And you are SURE this is helping you?” LOL
Actually, I reached a point a few weeks ago where I felt like I had all the information I needed to know. It was like a wave of relief that came over! I could finally feel I have all the information I need to know and can now set about to figure out what I need to do with this information.
Now it’s only mild curiosity, immaterial, info that’s left (and what were you wearing and what was she wearing type stuff…lol)
I made his getting therapy a non-negotiable part of our process. I need to know why he did what he did, he needs to know why it happened, etc., and I am not the one who can help sort that out. The minute he stops therapy, I file. (and he knows this) So, to a large extent the outcome and a large amount of effort to help us heal in his hands.
I’m still here, and some days that’s about as much as I can muster. But considering how easy it would have been to bail out, that is saying something and he knows it!
March 14th, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Hi Nicki-
Wow, my H said the same thing about, “how can this talking possibly help you!?” and then he would tell me that I was “torturing myself and I needed to “focus” (if I hear that one more time to focus, I am gonna scream!).
And I agree with you, yes I need to go over it at different “angles”. He keeps telling me that he’s answered all my questions and that I just am not satisfied with the answers he gives me. Maybe not. Maybe because I don’t think they are 100% truthful. I think he sugarcoats a lot of things to make it seem less serious than it was.
I am on the brink of filing. I think it’s awful but I also am getting OK with it too. I think I married a guy I thought I knew. And when he didn’t quit the affair after I dropped the divorce, I really know in my heart he isn’t up to my “par” if you will.
I think when he said he thought the family would “work itself out” was a big flag also that he had no intention of trying to reconcile it for our kids and me. Again, he’s a coward in my opinion who can’t own up to his mess. He’s not man enough to swallow his pride and admit he was wrong, and hurtful and a liar. I just think I am too hopeful and I keep beating my head against a wall.
Have a good night and I will post tomorrow!
March 15th, 2007 at 10:02 am
Liz–I assume that “focus” is his code word for “get over it”, right?
I have questioned myself endlessly about why I haven’t filed yet. (am I weak? am I afraid of being alone? am I compromising my integrity by staying and, if so, why would I do that to myself? and…on and on and on!)
I have concluded that I have questions that need answered,and maybe, just maybe, it would be easier, and would expedite my healing, if I hung around long enough to get them.
I don’t even think that the answers will be found in what he says, In fact, I have become rather deaf in that regard. (like watching tv with the sound off) I am watching and evaluating his actions and the meaning behind this words. If that makes sense?
When I feel like he is giving me the best that he’s got (no matter how much or little that may turn out to be), then I will be able to decide if that is enough for me.
Maybe ask him “Is this all you got?” or ask him what his plan is to help heal the relationship. If all he has is “I am waiting for you to fix it” or he implies in his answer that he is hoping a magic wand will be waved then you have more clues.
My H used to think that he was the one good as messing things up and I was the one good at fixing them. All well and good, but there are some messes that I cannot fix and this is one of them. It takes two.
Just my thoughts of the morning :-)
March 15th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
All I can say is that when you afford them the opportunity to leave and they don’t they start thinking about you and what you are going to do. I don’t think he cares enough any longer what I do. No mater what he said he saw her monday night I could feel it and by his actions and attitude. I am just in a bad spot but I am not going to leave just yet if he wants out he’ll have to go and he might who knows. The OP has a hold on him or maybe just to much dirt and he can’t break loose, that I beleive is the case here and she will hold it over him, she has done everything in her power that she can do to me and I am still here and so is he so I don’t know what is going to happen. I believe n my heart this will not work out only because of all that has happened it went on for to long and to much shared with the OP and he is more comfortable with her than with me. I am having a sad day of it I guess it all just totally sunk in that it’s over for us both it’s a no win for anyone.
I will move on and have already as much as I would like this work the dishonesty of it all is beyond my scope of thinking. Planning on a nice life somewhere.
Take care of yourselves it’s the best we can do for ourselves.
March 16th, 2007 at 9:00 am
Nicki – there are a few code words and “focus” is the big one. Mostly I get, “you are in control, you can decide if you will get over this or not”, or “you have to make a decision at some point in time if and when you will decide to trust me again”
Basically, I feel like he says he is there for me and he will support me but I still feel like he expects me to do this by myself.
Then, he blames me in a round about way for not “letting go”.
Also, about the topic of filing. It’s the exact same thing for me. Somedays I think to myself, “you would NEVER let any one else on this planet lie and deceive you and disregard you this bad!!! So WHY do you let him?”
Am I more insecure than I think? Do I think I will never find anyone else? Or, is there this little hope inside me that he will see the light and make this amazing change? I also think gender plays a huge role. The therapist told me most men (not all! please don’t take this wrong guys)…..have a much more difficult time forgiving an affair. I think it’s becuase of socialization. Women tend to have to be more forgiving and understanding, blah, blah, blah. Do you think that has some truth to it? I think if I did this to HIM it would be world war 3. He’d be gone!!!
Sandy – I have asked him to leave many times! And he refuses to leave! He says, “don’t you think I would have left if I wanted to?” or “I am right where I want to be!”….I love how they think that option is totally secure. Like they can have an OP on the side, and the spouse will allow them to stay forever and have their cake and eat it too!
I am really down today also, maybe it’s just realizing that some OP acutally had a relationship with my husband. It’s the hardest thing to swallow, but I don’t have to tell anyone that!
March 16th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Hi Nicki – I think it makes a ton of sense to watch their actions rather than listening to what they say – as important as it is to talk, as we have all noted, it is what they do that matters more than anything else – I went through the same questioning – was I sacrificing my integrity, taking the “easy” way out (as if any of this can be called easy) – but what my friend kept telling me was that I could always opt to leave/tell him to leave – that option was always open and frankly it still is if something he does is of such concern that I feel we are done – I still believe that he and I can get by this but only if he is not in contact with her – and I also believe that I am prepped – that if I discover anything now I can walk away – I have given it enough, given him enough chances – the consequences so far of his behaviors have been losing her (if he has done as he said he has and truly cut off communication) – if he goes back on his word he will lose me and our marriage – and it will truly be his doing – so as terrible as an outcome that is, I think that I am at a place where if that is the way it is, it is
March 17th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
I could leave now without many reservations as I see it now they get into this type of life style for whatever reason they justify & cannot give it up in there heads and thier bodies just follow without reason. I don’t think any of them will ever have a clue whay happened to thier partner of many years. It is the worst thing that can happen we loose our self esteem & our integrity in the process because they have beat us down so badly without any thoughts how badly the words hurt. I think that he used me beyond anything for a long time when I did not know what was really going on and everybody else did. He paraded me in public as if to say see what I have my cake and eat it to. After I found out I felt so humiliated and ashamed of myself for being so stupid not to see. I never looked for this in him and I do not feel sorry for myself but I pity him and his sick mind, I do believe thier is brain activity that probably supports this as close to an addiction as you can get. Whatever trips that trigger is powerful to watch someone you have known for many years become a stranger in your home. His total thinking pattern has changed, ideals, morality, life style, attitude and behavior. I doubt if they can remotely come back to the person you once knew. He went to far for to long and I think you are right they do not know how to forgive themselves so it is easier to just continue on thier path of self distuction and they will distruct it’s just a matter of time.
On to have the best day I can have.
March 18th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Liz, I know what you are saying about the OP and thinking, gee they took so much from us. They don’t know what they took but all the things you use to do as a couple have been misssing here for a long time. Little things like sitting outside looking at the stars with a glass of wine, cooking outdoors together, a walk in a valley, movies, dinner out, interacting with other couples, companionship, talking about your day,cleaning up the yard with a beer after winter and most of all the intimacey they shared with another person and it was’nt you. Our friends are no longer there and that is his fault nobody wants to hear this crap or be around it. They don’t get it!!!Hard to swallow that they gave so much to another person while we sat and waited for them at home like we did. You are right if we would have done this to them we would have been out the door and they would have seen to it so fast it would make your head spin but they cannot relate to this because it is all about them and thier confused little minds, they don’t know what they want and when you afford them the opportunity to leave they look at you like you have lost your mind. They really don’t want anything accept thier cake and eat it to in most cases. I just cannot in my heart believe that he went with the town slut. What’s done is done but she must really feel proud of herself to think that she got such a prize and she got what she wanted from him no doubt about that but he is paying for it now. Hard to clean up your trash when you started the whole thing in the first place. He said to me you don’t have to be mad at her, I told him I’m not mad at her she did not do this to me you did she just went along with what you wanted and you let her and that is your fault not mine. They don’t want to hear that from anyone. They all have a walk on water syndrom, not me it’s all your fault or this would not have happened. They think like spoiled children that have no control of thier actions nor responsibility for what they have done. They can’t or don’t know how to fix what they broke so it’s easier for them to be defiant towards us. They must think we are just plain dumb not to see all things that they have done to us all and they walk off scott free in thier heads. Men are just plain not with the program and the ones that are have a great lives and attitudes, I’d like to meet that one man one day as my choices here were not good, good at the time but now it’s just the way things are. They are insecure people and we are thier blankies!! Hard to figure.
March 19th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Sandy,
Oh, I couldn’t agree with you more! And mine, I told him he went with the “bottom of the barrel” too. He picked a real winner for an OP! Then I told him, “you had to date her, who else would settle for a married guy and hurt two little kids?” She would! She did! Then I got to thinking to myself, “do I want to be married to a guy, who sacrifices his family for his own self-gratification?” I am pretty much “done”. Still hanging onto to this last bit of hope, but the picture is so much clearer to me everyday that he really IS selfish, and out for HIM and I really think the only remorse he has is that he got CAUGHT. Twice. I told him the other night that he was calculating and deliberate. That he took a “risk” with our marriage and family, and right now, he lost the wager.
I also tried to get him to confess to some more things that I know he did (not actual proof, but in my gut) and he will not come clean. He changes the subject and denies, and tells me it’s not “relavant”. I agree with you that I don’t think we’ll ever get that person we thought we knew back. I think once they have crossed that line so bad, a part of them goes with it for good.
We went to a party the other night with our freinds and I have never seen him act so quiet!! I think he was totally ashamed and embarrased to be around our freinds. Everyone commented to me after the party that he was “not himself”.
I also agree with you they want their cake and eat it too. Totally. I also agree with you there are nice men in the world, who don’t do this thing to their wives. The sadest thing is I wonder how many would turn it down, if they had 100% confidence of not getting caught. It makes me sad becuase the more people I talk to, have a similar story. Which means, A LOT of people are cheating in their marriages at some point in time.
How old is your H and the OP?? I forgot. Does he try to talk you into making it work still?
Well have a good night if possible. I will try too!!!
March 20th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Good Morning Liz,
He is 53, and the OP is about 20 years his junior. What a disaster she is just out for whatever she can get, she can have it and him too! He said to me the other day over a comment I made, I said “I love this place and how quiet it is out here” he said to me, “you better love it your going to be here a long time”. No other comment so who knows what he is thinking. I think deep down he knows that I am going to leave it just has not totally sunk in with him yet but it will. I believe he is so insecure in himself, now where I got stronger he got weaker and I will move forward it’s just a matter of time. He’s having a problem figuring me out and what I am going to do. Good for Him! I would love to do what he did to me in many ways but I just can’t, moral standards and all that come into play but I will do this in another way. Where do these guys get off thinking they can ruin your life and expect you to forgive and forget like it was a bad dream. They don’t have a clue how women think they are totally selfish people and always will be. Self gratification must be thier total being. They think they are invisable to the public and getting caught was not an option for any of them I don’t think they could see that far into what they were/are doing. They are cunning creatures both men and women who cheat, they lie, cheat, steal from the ones who have loved them and they don’t seem to care. Where is the remorse, they don’t have any because you know they have told you this is all your fault’s we drove them to it or whatever they say. What a scape goat comment is that!!! They just can’t take responsibilty for thier actions and don’t want to.
I have a friend who her husband did the same thing for 3 years, she told me she caught him he stopped seeing the OP and she bided her time to get even. She was really hurt like the rest of us but she did something so different. She made him feel secure at home and catered to his ego and then one day he came home the bank acc’s were cleaned out, house empty, kids gone, dog gone, his suit cases packed in the front yard, house sold and left no forwarding address. He searched for her for years but not a soul would tell him anything and to this day he never found her or the kids. He went off the deep end started drinking lost his great job blamed the OP for everthing that she ruined his life. He could not believe she left him after all those years. She found out from friends and family what happened to him but she never went back, she figured that what goes around comes around just in a different manner for us all. She changed everything and never bothered getting a divorce she assumed he got one. She never did marry again, raised her 2 children put them through college, I know them both fine folks, they now have families of thier own and she is happy. She is in her 60′s now doing what she wants to do and a very vibrant woman. The kids know who their father is and they were old enough at the time to see what happened and they never forgave him for it all. That took allot of nerve to go that far and like many of us we would love to do the same at one time or another. She said it was “Sweet Revenge”. Heck of a story and all true, she gives us all hope in different ways.
Have a nice day.
March 20th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Hi All!
Sandy,
What a story!!
I have a short ones that I know of personally, our old neighbor found out her H was having an affair, and when he came home from work, everything he owned, was on the front lawn, and his dog, was tied to his suitcase. She filed for divorce and never looked back! Today, she is happily married to a wonderful man. And another friend of mine, found her H and her best friend drinking wine in the family room together. Her best friend was supposed to go bowling with her that same evening and told her she was “sick”. Turned out she was having an affair with her H. Again, my friend filed for divorce then NEXT day, never looked back, remarried to a GREAT guy! I know him well! And the kids, never blamed her a bit. There are many stories like this and yours and we have to believe that sometimes things happen for a reason.
I am in a very “depressed” place today. It’s coming up on a year anniversary and I feel like I just found out about the affair yesterday. I feel just as terrible inside. I feel hopeless. I wonder what makes some people “move on” and others feel so stuck and hurt, and angry, and betrayed, etc. I wish I could just wake up ONE day, and have the affair not be the first thought in my head. It just is. I can’t explain it but it doesn’t “go away” for me. And my H blames me for this. He says it’s in my “control” not to think and obsess. Maybe he’s right. Is he?? Is it all my fault? I don’t know what to think anymore. All I know is affairs are very devistating for everyone involved. That is for sure.
I will try to be better, as best as I can be. I feel so exhausted mentally. I asked him to move out, for a separation today and he said, “no, I am not moving out, you move out!”. I told him I wasn’t leaving my home. He said he wasn’t leaving his home. If I want him gone, I have to file for divorce. He will not go “willingly” to give me time or space. This is where I am at today. Sorry so depressing but I just needed to vent!
March 20th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Hi All!
Liz–It is NOT your fault. None of it! You are thinking these thoughts for a reason.
First reason: Your h doesn’t want to be a part of the solution, imho (even if he is willing to admit he caused the problem..that’s not enough!)
Second reason: Your h may have been willing to answer questions for a short period of time (and he may have even answered them honestly!) but that’s not enough! He needs to keep answering them one million times if necessary.
Third reason: You need him to tell you how much he loves, adores, admires and/or respects. (you can fill this is with your own words) If he could tell you that the OP was a slut (and at least agree with you about something!) but don’t hold your breath on that one.
Bottom line: We who were betrayed NEED to be reassured (even if we have never had one minute’s worth of self-esteem issues before in our lives, we are struggling with it now)
Now some sage advise that was given me when I was at the same stage you were in: Let it go. You are on hyperalert and it is going to affect your health. Do you want to add the loss of your physical health to his already growing list of transgressions?
That advise was right on the money! I was able to let it go because I trust the universe to have my back on this; if my h slips again I WILL find out without all the Sherlock Holmes sleuthing. I had made it clear to my h what I had to have in a relationship, generally (like honesty and loyalty) and specifically what had to happen with the OP (like: no contact, etc)
I have played out all scenarios in my head and am prepared for any eventuality. And I am very sure that whatever happens, I gave it my best shot. He broke the relationship, but he didn’t break me! Make sense?
You are doing fine! Keep honoring yourself and your healing process.
March 20th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
Good advise Nicki, I agree, put your trust in the Universe and if he is doing the wrong thing all will be revealed eventually. I truely believe that men do not think as deeply and analytiacly as us when it comes to emotions and relationships. They also have the ability to put things in a box and shut them away and never think of them again. I am just taking each day as it comes,some are better than others and we talk about the future a bit more. I know deep down in my heart that if it happens again I will just walk away as there is nothing more I could do or say that would change it.
I just hate the way the thoughts creap into my mind and have to make a point to tell myself to stop letting them in. I am looking forward to the day when all of this is just a thread woven into the tapestry of my life and other positive things will be more constant in my thoughts.
March 20th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
Jessi, I couldn’t agree more! They compartmentalize more than we do…probably because, like you said, they don’t have the emotional depth. I hate to generalize, but I do know that my mother never held my father’s feet to the fire, never set strong boundaries, etc. Maybe we are the generation that are pioneering an end to the clueless, selfish man because we want, and know that we deserve, more, than our mothers did??
If nothing else, let’s teach our sons and daughters a new way to live and relate… Now that’s a legacy!
I don’t always know why things happen, but, when we are ready, we can find a way to make it work to the good!
Here’s a toast to all of the pioneer woman of integrity!!
March 21st, 2007 at 1:02 am
Liz, I know how you feel I felt I could not let go for a long time. I guess that in my heart I did not to believe the love of my life betrayed me, my trust, my faith, my love, my family, my friends and the list goes on just like yours. I just decided that the best thing for me was to do for me and get out of the house which since I work was not a problem there but to be in social scene with my girl friends just talking, dinner a night out for me. I started dressing differently for me not him, I changed my hair color for me, I have been a blond for many years just changed the shade, I am thin and look great so the new wardrobe suits me. One day I was getting ready to go out and he kept looking at me and I wondered what was on his mind, he said “boy you really great”, I said thanks pressed on and walked out the door without another word. I am ready for a new life with or without him but i will not take any crap either. Had enough of that for a life time. If you love the guy and want it to work it will take time and like Marlene said when they are ready to talk they will if ever but I know how hard it is for you, believe me I know. Hard to let go but they are different people now and have to work out allot for themselves if they ever can. I have known for almost a year but it went on for over two years and I suffered in many ways. My health took it’s toll which was not a good thing but I am back to my old self again and have no intentions of allowing him to blame me for what he started with the OP and believe me it is not your fault, it’s thiers. They love it when you argue with him it’s like a high for them they feel they have control over you and they love it. Just let it all be for a month and don’t bother with him or react to him and you will see a change because then he will wonder what you are up to and he should. I am off to bed talk to later.
March 21st, 2007 at 7:25 am
Hi all – well, a long story – I posted this on the other site on one of the topics so if you are following that one, you can skip this one! It has been 4 months since my H ran into her then followed up with an email, etc. and I discovered that. The only time since then that she has come into a conversation was the time in Jan when his passenger seat was moved back and he told me that if I was at all suspicious that he swears he had not seen her. As you all know, I have had nothing happen that makes me suspicious yet I know that since we live close to one another it’s hard to imagine that he hasn’t even passed the OP on the road while driving – but he has said nothing.
The good news is that he has not initiated contact with her and that he is not seeing her, so right now I am torn between clinging to that and wanting to follow through with my convictions.
Here is the bad news – and it all started with posting on this site – a blessing I think. I was online here on Sat night and he came in to give me coffee and saw the heading “INFIDELITY Insider” He asked what the hell was that and I told him – he went off glumly. A little later when I was off the computer he came in and asked why I am doing this – he asked, doesn’t this just prolong the bad memories? (how classic is that – if we don’t think or talk about it, it didn’t happen) I explained that it is helpful to share with people who have gone through the same trauma. A bit after this his personal cell phone, which he doesn’t take with him anymore, rings and neither of us gets there to answer – but when we both get there and flip it open his face drops and he says “it’s her” – So then we start to talk and I tell him that I have been happy these last four months and I think he has but that I am having a hard time believing that he hasn’t at least seen her somewhere and that as awkward as it is for him I need him to tell me because it’s very hard to rebuild trust after all this – same thing we all know and say. Now she has called – why? He first says that he has seen her passing in the car, once – she had already passed before it even registered who she was – and that he has gone out of his way to avoid times and places where she usually was in order to avoid even running into her – I know this is true – then he gets very upset and starts to cry and tells me that two days ago she came to school early in the morning to give him back some of the money he had given her when she was in dire straits last May (she had fled her house due to an abusive episode with her h) He said he refused the money – they asked about each other’s health. She told him that her H had been back for awhile but now she has filed for divorce. He said that she also told him that she noticed that she hasn’t seen him around in his usual places like the grocery store on Sat morning and he told her he is purposely avoiding meeting her. He said he told her that he loves me and that he is where he wants to be. She said that she didn’t need to hear that. Naturally, I got very upset and told him that once again, he didn’t keep his word about telling me he had been in contact. He said that he just did, although he realizes it should have been right away. He had actually told her that he wouldn’t tell me that she came to see him but he knows he has to – he was very upset, saying that now he is in the middle of all this – I told him, too bad – I am in the middle too but totally due to things that he and she had done, not from my own doing. I asked him to call her back in front of me and he said no. We talked more. I asked him what happened to her hating him and he shrugged and I told him that if he had asked me I could have told him she didn’t really hate him – she was just hurt and angry. After about a half hour, he went to his phone and said he was calling her – she answered and he asked her if she had called this number (his cell) I then hear him say, “it’s __, did you call?” Then he says “okay” then hangs up – he tells me that she pretended that she didn’t know who he was and that she said she didn’t call!!! We figure maybe someone was there and she couldn’t talk. We had an intimate night and I went up and down in my emotions – somewhere in the middle of the night I found my peace – I knew he went back on his word, but I hated to make something she had done come between us – either I have faith in his ability to figure this out or I don’t. The next morning, he told me that he knows that he didn’t say anything because in his head, by bringing her up, it jeopardizes our relationship but that he can see that in my head, it is jeopardizing it by not saying anything – that it’s like if he doesn’t say anything he can make himself believe that it didn’t happen – I told him about his needing to be transparent – I told him that he is a smart guy and he can figure this out. I also told him that I am taken advantage of due to my good nature and patience all the time and that he is the one person in my life whom I expect to not take advantage of me and to protect me from being taken advantage of and that my greatest fear is that he is learning that he can do this stuff and get away with it, that nothing happens – he said that this isn’t nothing – it is upsetting for him – he apologized again and said that he assumes that she will try to reach him and explain and he will tell me. He asked me (me!) what I thought was going on – I told him I had no idea but that I believe that her act had malice in it – it was not innocent, that if all she wanted to do was to return the money, she could have sent it to him. I told him that maybe she doesn’t believe him as far as his wanting me and our marriage. He agreed – he said that she may have hoped that seeing her would make him throw himself back into her arms and say that he missed her, etc. and since that isn’t what happened, maybe she will go away for good. He said he has seen her now and can say that he is not in love with her, he is in love with me and even though he “couldn’t” tell her to leave (Mr. Nice Guy, remember?), he just kept thinking that he wanted her to leave because he has tried so hard to put this all behind us.
So…I am stuck – part of me wants to stomp out because he went back on his word about telling me – but now we are splitting hairs – he did tell me, but not right away and perhaps only because the phone rang and he had to explain. Part of me wants to keep the faith because everything between us is so good right now. I think that what I have learned is that I should have been talking about this with him all along, from time to time, to remind him that it is critical that he tell me of any contact – I got trapped into his silence – not referencing it so that it could fade away – not that I am blaming myself – he is clearly to blame for this and I think he knows it – but I can see the fight in him, my beliefs against his beliefs about how to handle things – I can see it is very hard for him to surrender to my belief but I am thinking that each incident is getting us there – it isn’t that I need to win or be right, but I need to know. He agreed with me that maybe her goal was just to cause trouble, maybe she hoped that he would change his mind. I told him that if she didn’t like hearing that he loved me and wanted his marriage then maybe she just shouldn’t come around – I asked him if she is stupid or just screwed up – he said she is screwed up. I also told him that she has b—- doing this and if she is banking on my being a wimp, not doing something about it if she continues to be a nuisance, she has another think coming.
she has not yet called or contacted him to explain her bizarre behavior Sat night – in the meantime I am feeling partly that her little act may have backfired – it actually forced him and me to talk and I feel as if we ended up closer in some way.
Here’s my question – and I see my therapist on Sat. after a 4 week break – part of me feels as if he and I should tackle these things together as a united front – in other words, if she calls, we should both call her back – I think she would be very upset to discover that first of all he went back on his word to her and ended up telling me that she came and saw him and that he called her with me right there. But the other part of me feels we should not give her any attention – if she calls, don’t answer – if she shows up, he needs to get rid of her as quickly as he can – he said that he told her, again, he cannot see her and he cannot be in contact with her – what do you guys think?
I also told him how critical it is that he broke his word to her (about not telling me) in order to keep his word to me – that he needs to establish where his loyalty lies and which one of us is his first priority.
someone on one of the other sites said that he is getting his jollies out of having me and him aligned against her – he didn’t look too happy! but I wonder if there is an element of truth there because if he can shift some of the responsibility for making her go away to me, he looks less like a meanie? I think that is why I told him that I have faith in him that he is smart enough to solve this – I don’t want to go in and fix things for him, know what I mean? I will be interested in hearing what you all say….
March 21st, 2007 at 8:35 am
And there’s another thought that has crossed my mind that expands on what I was trying to say earlier…
There comes a point where we can let go of the outcome. Actually, if we are to have any peace at all, we MUST let go of the outcome.
Most of our struggling comes from the fact that we are rooting for a particular ending to the story. Every time we say, “Talk to me! Tell me the truth!” aren’t we really saying, “I want “us” to work?” They throw us enough info to get us to back off. But, it’s not enough to confirm that they want “us” to work. Sooooo…we go in for another round of “you aren’t telling me everything…”
Once we get exhausted from trying to “make it work”, then we can finally step back and say, “I really don’t care one way of the other. I have told you what I wanted to see happen here and I have worked really hard to communicate that to you. I am trying very hard to focus on me, my happiness, the kids well-being and I can rest at night knowing that I did what I could do to get “us” back on track. I now rest my case.”
I think this is another way of getting to, “I am okay with or without him.”
This is the stage I am at right now. What will be will be. That doesn’t mean I have given up hoping for a particular outcome. I just know it will be ok, and I will be okay, if it turns out that there’s a better way for me to live than the way I have been doing it for the past 25 years.
March 21st, 2007 at 8:55 am
Marlene,
I think it’s better to have a united front. It’ a reason for him telling you the who, what, where, when and how.
I honestly belive that the number 1 reason that h’s betray us is because they do not know how to comminucate with us when they feel troubled or confused or conflicted. ( Our conversations had been so superficial for so long that, I thought, “And once this problem is resolved, and the op is gone, what WILL we have to talk about?” lol)
I know we probably shouldn’t compare this to the way we treat our children, but I can’t help it. If my kids get in trouble I WANT them to come to me with all of the details. Not so I can fix the problem as much as it is to let them know I am always there, gently guide them to a solution, and reinforce trhe cause and effect of our actions.
In so many ways, our H’s are emotional 13 yr olds. Don’t you think?
March 21st, 2007 at 11:22 am
Marlene,
Wow, what a night you had glad you came through it OK. I think that a united front is great for some of us but there is something to be said for sleeping dogs. I think he can fix this also in himself he sounds like a fellow with some sence about himself and I know we have to let them do that for themsleves. Hard to see across the fence when you are the guilty party thier perception changes but if he is willing for you to be there when he makes the call to her it’s a start and it sounds like the two of you are off to rebuilding your relationship. Good for you! You just need to be yourself and everything will fall into place and you be the better person as you have been. You are a very inteligent woman and I understand you can’t play both sides of the fiddle when it comes to your realtionship with your husband that has to make it twice as hard for you than for the rest of us. Being a therapist is hard enough of a job but when it comes home to roost at your doorstep different story. Who would have ever thought, right? Just hang in I think you have a good thing going and I wish you both the best future you can have together.
If he ever gets on this web site and reads all this stuff I think he would fall off of his chair as I don’t think any man really thinks about the stuff we do nor reacts the way we do to situations. Maybe it would give him some insight also who knows what he would think but I would bet my socks his eyes would pop out of his head. He will get on the site because he won’t be able to stand the fact that you are here and he does not know what this is all about and I will bet he wants to know. Men don’t like women keeping secrets from them but it’s ok for them to do it, thier secret little worlds in thier heads. They are only fooling themselves, what a misconception they have about women.
Have a great day.
March 21st, 2007 at 5:13 pm
thanks for all of your support – as far as him coming on this site – I doubt he would do so even if he is curious – you know how when you brought your little kids to the doctor’s office and they were afraid of the doctor because they didn’t want to get a shot? one of the things they do is to cover their eyes because, in their heads, if they can’t see the doctor, the doctor can’t see them – that is what he is doing – if he doesn’t talk about it, maybe he can help himself believe it didn’t really happen – I really think that is mostly a guy thing – I think Nicki is right – they don’t know how to deal with conflicts and not feeling good about things and God forbid that they should talk about it – so instead they do something only it’s a terribly dumb thing to do – and Nicki, my therapist has advised me all along that I have to let go of the outcome so you are right about that – I “know” that in my head but I have to keep knowing it in my soul
March 21st, 2007 at 11:46 pm
Dr Bob posted a new topic why dont we move there over 200 is a little much to go through. i have been reading all but not posted just to learn but its getting waaayyy too long
March 22nd, 2007 at 9:49 am
You are right about that they cannot deal with conflicts because of thier guilt and if they have a problem I feel they think a stranger so to speak is the answer for them because they don’t know them as we do. They are different with the OP it’s all a fantasy in thier heads they are acting out the ultimate role they feel they can’t with you. They want change in thier lives but don’t know how to approach thier life time partner about issues they have with themselves. Some of them figure it out on thier own others can’t and I can see that. Most men think that counseling is a waste of time like here, he said “there is nothing wrong with me it’s all you and if you need help getting through this I will see you through it and take you to see someone”. How generous of him I thought you do what you want to do sleep around, sneak around and then blame me for your actions. What a crock!
We are the injured parties no matter how you cut the cake and it took me a long time to get past so much and for the gals/guys that can restore that trust to make it work out more power to you. I will never be able to do that here not because of him but me, it just went on to long and I was left alone for to many years night after night and I was so lonely and missed him so much. I told him all this I’m not sure he understood it all but I had my say. I also know he still calls her and destroys his cell bills so I won’t see them so I know they are still talking and that is another reason and maybe he is like you say trying to be Mr. Nice Guy with it all but that does not work here for me. I am just so done with it all.
I don’t know what is going to happen here at this point as now it is all about me and not him any longer. He did enough and forgiving is one thing forgeting is another. I guess it’s all the words that I can’t get out of my head to see him as such a cruel/mean person now and I never knew he had that in him. Now that I know it is there I will always wonder when it will come about again and that is my fear, I can’t go through this with him again and I won’t. What’s my options? I feel for me starting over is the only way I can have any peace for myself as hard as it will be to walk away from all these years together it’s better to be alone than with someone in my heart that I will never be able to trust again. I just wrapped myself around him so tightly that it’s hard to unbind myself from him, the binding is coming off slowly and my self esteem is back and back to the person I use to be not a 100% but working on it and when I am there I am gone. Can’t do this with a liar and a cheater as I know it will happen again once they start this other life style the intrigue of it all for them is the high. How much and how far will he go the next time will always be in the back of my mind. I will always have the thought of him with this woman if she was better and had more going for her I could understand it better but the town slut is hard to get passed. I cannot believe that he scraped the bottom of the barrel with such sludge and cannot see her for what she really is. He is so stupid to think for a min that she would ever be true to him and I know how she is so to me it had to be all about a new adventure for him. To bad for for him to be known around town now for what he did and is he is just an embarrassment to be around for me. I have no respect left for him and even if I could I don’t think in my heart that he is worth all this to try and make it work again to much hurt inside of me. He can’t fix what he broke and does not know how to even begin with me just by talking to her is enough for me to know that is is never going to end wether he sleeps with her or not is not the point any longer. He is coming home but that’s about it I think he thinks that’s a big step for him well it might be but not big enough for me. No contact for me and for him to be honest is the answer I just think it went on to long and he can’t let go. I don’t feel he can do that it has become such a patern for him that lying is just a way of life now for him and I can’t tell anymore one way or the other. Sad but true. I will have a better life I have allot going for me, I have my own buisness and lots of family support so I will be fine.
Good Luck to us all.
March 22nd, 2007 at 11:21 am
Sandy,
I posted this at the “big board” this morning, but I want to add it here as well. I totally get you about not forgetting and the dominant thought I had on my mind this morning matches yours. He is not who I thought he was. Doesn’t matter to me anymore how I missed it. I agonized over that for sooo long. Done with that. I have now come to some core truths: 1) He did it once, he can do it again 2)the blind trust that he had from me is a thing of the past. 3) I can forgive (if that means accept that he is seriously, enmotionally, flawed) but I will NEVER forget. 4) Trust now, to me, is something that he must earn every single day
Mu h is still going to therapy, but he came home yesterday and said, “I am not sure why I still need to go. I feel better now.” OMG! I don’t even want to have this conversation with him. Always, always, it’s about how he feels.
I am taking notes now. I do not have a dog in this race anymore and since the emotional charge (attachement to outcome) is gone for me, I can be more objective and see what has likely been there all along, but I was too busy or too distracted to see.
Hugs to all,
Nicki
March 23rd, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Nicki-
I was thinking the same thing that I am done agonizing over this. It’s like I wasted soooo much energy trying to look at what his character was, and how he could do this to our family, and how he could disregard me, etc. And I looked at it from a million different angles, and I never had a resolve that suited me in the end. I was still left with a feeling that I have no closure, and no answers. Once he said to me, “Some things just don’t have an answer” and that was the biggest cop-out he ever said in my opinion! I took it as, “just accept the fact that I did it and move on!”. I am really starting to move away from him in all respects, emotionally and now, physically as well. I read something that said if the betrayed spouse takes you back and tries to work it out, be very cautious of this. I know what they mean by that now. I think once all the dust settles, you really see the huge character flaw in them and parts of you look back through the years and think, wow, they were really selfish, or sometimes I just don’t think I had much of a marrige at all. That most of it was in my head of the American Dream of the house and two kids, etc.
I haven’t been arguing with him about the OP, but he notices me pulling away, and he keeps trying to pull closer, I think out of fear. I think he senses I’ve moved on emotionally and really despise what he did. It’s sad, but sometimes you have to face things and work through them in your head and that’s when acceptance comes in. I think a long time ago, you posted that you were not so sure if you wanted the “prize”. That’s where I’ve been for the past 6 months!!! ugh.
Marlene – that is incredible she called him right when you were there and I know how you feel about him not telling you of the past contact once again. It’s so hard to figure out what to really beleive from them anymore. Part of you starts to rationlize it by thinking they were only trying to “protect” us by with holding the information. Then, the other part of us, the “confident and self-respecting part” gets mad at ourselves I think becuase we allow this behavior from them!!! I think back of all the lies and chances I gave my H to come clean and he blew it every single time, except the very last time in January. The problem I have is he deleted the message and I didn’t get to hear it for myself. And…he has saved many of my voice mails to “let me hear myself”?? what is that??? That made me really mad! So, again, I thought he was sugarcoating her message. I am getting better at trying to not worry about her anymore. She’s so useless it’s pathetic. I just think of how much lack of respect she has for HERSELF! I also noticed how many times she called him after he broke up with her the first time. All the calls were “incoming” on the bill for a long time. So, she was panicking real hard, then obviously he caved into her when we had an arguement or something. He always said she “made it so easy to go back to her” (puke)
Sandy, are you doing better these days??? You have been through so much!!!
Are we changing blog locations?? this is very long, agreed!
March 24th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Nicki,
I was to busy also to see it all but now that my eyes have been opened I see nothing but a emotionally cripple/flawed/disgraced person and to me he will always be just that. No matter what is said any longer or what he wants it’s now all about me and what I want and I intend to make that happen for myself. I am also angry at it all but what’s doneis done is done and there is a bright future for me awaiting my return to the whole. I think I am going to have a coming out party for me with my friends when this day comes into play. I am looking forward to it with relish. He can have his slut and all the baggage she will bring with her and I can just hear what will be said amoung our old friends and such. I wonder if would even have the gaul to introduce her to his family my feeling is that will never happen. He lacks the strengh in his mind to face the music there and I know that. Going to be interesting what happens I will just watch from the sidelines and get a big giggle.
Going to do chores before night fall.
Hope you have a great weekend.
March 26th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Hi all – my therapist whom I saw on Saturday told me that he considered my H’s latest thing an “aftershock” – the OP clearly wanted to reinitiate contact on the pretense of returning money to him and perhaps even to test the waters, see how he might react
the therapist also said that a higher power is really watching out over us – first, my h’s coming in just as I was on the blog and that opening up the discussion and then her call – all of that lead to the revelation that she had come by to see him – I was soooo glad that he broke his word to her and ended up telling me but also sooo upset that he waited to do so –
the only good that came out of this was that I was able to say a few things that I had not before – regarding protection of me – I told him that I know that he likes to think that he was protecting me by not telling me of her visit to him but that the reality is that he is primarily protecting himself – protecting himself from my reaction – and I told him that I didn’t buy that he was protecting me all along – he said he thinks he was and I said, “how? – by not rubbing my nose in the fact that you were having an affair? gee thanks for not doing it right in front of me!” I told him that what he was really doing was simply doing what he wanted and just keeping it a secret from me –
I also told him that the night we were telling our son about it, I was upset that my H said something about not blaming the OP, that he was the one who had screwed up – I told him that unless he forced her, which I am sure he didn’t, she did something wrong too, she isn’t blameless and I am sick of hearing about her as if she is a saint or something – he said that he just said that because he was not comfortable with the way our son was reacting and he didn’t want him to focus on the OP as the bad guy -
my therapist suggested that I speak with my H about where we go from here as far as she is concerned – that we should decide together whether he should handle another attempt from her at contact (if and when one comes) by himself or if we want to plan together what to do – I was shocked when he attempted to call her with me right there as he has always been so protective of her and it was good in a way that she acted in such a bizarre way, pretending not to recognize his voice and denying that she had called – not for anything, but she is one of the most manipulative women I think I have ever seen –
as someone said it on the “big board” – she will clearly move on and get fixated on another guy as soon as she can – and my H will probably be glad both because it will remove the pressure from him and will let him think that she can ultimately be happy – because I know that even though he knows that what they did was wrong he feels guilty for having gotten involved with her and letting her down by severing the contact –
what I hope he realizes is that he never should have put himself in the middle and in the position of having to make such a painful choice – it was self destructive – right now he is still not smoking, which is a huge addiction for him, so I am hoping that he persists since that is such a self injurious behavior as well
anyway back to work – have you guys landed on antoher spot to post?
March 27th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
I am fine and just plugging along waiting for my day to come and it will. Pretty quiet weekend not much going on and I like it that way so I don’t get into anything with him suits me just fine.
Have been on the other site but it seems to me a bit more compicated then this one but will give it another shot.
Liz, How are you doing? Worry about you hope you has a nice weekend and all is going better for you. It’s hard enough in life then to be saddled with this kind of crap is just nonsence.
Marlene,
I know what you mean about making the OP the saint or someone who walks on water, what are they trying to say? I don’t know if they are trying to protect thier own image by building up this other person to something they thought they had or wished, if they think that highly of them it makes it easier for them to swallow in thier minds they are great people and the error in thier judgement makes it easier for them to justify it all to themselves. They gave me something not sure what it was but it was exciting/diferent/new and secretive. Who knows what they all think.
Just makes my mind tired to think of all the possiblities all the way around. I just think that on the whole of it all they make bad judgement calls and expect us to believe when it is all over just to forgive and forget. They don’t really want to give an explanation because if they tried they would lie to cover up their behavior I firmly believe that as they have done it so long it becomes part of them and honesty is a thing of the past.
Guess no matter what I have lost my faith in people being honest with me and I was never like that before. I now step back and think about what someone says to me and before I took what anyone said to me at face value till you proved differently to me.
I have made many changes some good some not so good but it will work out it’s all the anger and hurt but that will go away in time. I feel once I am out of all this it will be better for me to be the happy person I once was.
Have a happy day.
April 1st, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Hi Sandy and everyone-
I couldn’t agree with you more. First of all, I think they HAVE to make these people seem wonderful. Why? I really think it’s becuase they look totally stupid if they risked their family, their wedding vows, all the lies just to have an affair with an idiot. (which, I think most of them do, becasue what kind of people jump into relationships with married people in the first place!) my point is, they have to build this person up becuase that person is a direct reflection of them!! There is no way they can say, “yeah, I picked a real loser to have an affair with” I think it comes down to they are just trying to save face. They know they let down tons of people, their image is blown with friends and family, and the OP is the only one who is on their “side” becuase of course, they both lied together so they need each other at this point. My H knows that there is no way he can sell the OP to me. There is nothing I will agree with him on when it comes to what type of person she is. I told him flat out how I feel about her and her choices.
April 2nd, 2007 at 10:47 am
Hey Liz,
Hope you had a great weekend mine was OK nothing to write home about but fine.
You are right about them being a reflection on them and that is not what he wants, I don’t think he can believe that he made such a terrible choice in his life. Never thought I would hear that coming from him but in his own way he says little things and I act like I believe he acted not really hearing what he is saying and that bothers him. He asked me if I was deaf? I just laughed to myself to see the shoe on the other foot.
He wants to fix this but I truely believe he does not know where to start. Men, they just don’t get it women are thinkers and planners about everything it’s in our nature to be supportive to our loved ones.
One day I will sit back and look at this as the worst adventure in my life and I will survive it well you can count on that. Just glad the kids are all grown and have thier own lives.
Best to you and hope all works out fine as you have little ones afoot and that makes it harder to deal with.
Take care and have a good day
April 2nd, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Good Afternoon All!
My 2cents about the infuriating way that the OP is perceived by H’s…My H’s therapist told him that she was an escape fantasy and that, by definition, a fantasy is perfect. That perfection breaks down when they realize they never knew the person they projected the fantasy on.
When I ask my H what the fantasy was about or what was it about her that was so perfect he told me, “I don’t even really know her. It was all in my mind…about her being everything I wanted her to be.”
My H has ALWAYS had a terrible time getting in touch with his emotions. (I daresay he represses/supresses alot) He was lacking in our relationship what he could not give, NOT what I couldn’t give. (I am very verbal and in touch!)
It’s not about us! It’s about them looking to receive what they could not give to us.
Make sense?
April 3rd, 2007 at 7:12 am
Nicki – yes it makes perfect sense – we do form our impressions of ourselves in part by how others see us – that’s the “mirror/reflection” thing – so as the OP’s are offering our H’s their adoration, easy to do when you are in fantasy land, our H’s are thinking that they must be pretty wonderful if this person is worshipping them and then turn it around to make the person who’s worshipping them wonderful too – because that must mean they are even more wonderful!
Back in Nov. after I detected the emailing contact and he ended the contact, he said that he has always admired and respected me and if I still wanted to love him, then maybe he isn’t such a terrible person, despite what he did – so that’s another example of what I mean.
I think in his head he doesn’t cast the OP as a bad person but does see her as, in his words, “screwed up.” I think he sees her as a victim – at one point I told him that her getting cancer was of course completely out of her control – but her staying in a supposedly abusive marriage and getting involved with a man who is married were her (very bad) choices – not bad luck.
April 3rd, 2007 at 8:59 am
Marlene–I think that if I didn’t know as much as I do about psychology and spirituality then this would have taken a very different turn. Even knowing what I know didn’t stop me from going thru the “so if she is the fantasy then I must be a disappointent to you” phase. The repeated hits to my self-esteem were what caused me so much pain. When I was finally able to knock that off then I could see everything much clearer.
Do I sometimes wonder if all of this is a precursor to one day getting traded in for a newer model? On occassion, I do wonder about that.
Yet, if that’s what to be down the road, I will take advantage of that situation by getting one of those newer, improved, models too! lol
April 3rd, 2007 at 10:37 am
Another passing thought here:
Ask them what was missing in our relationship and then advise that if they want that they need to give it…
If my H thought we were drifting apart, then he needed to ask what he could do to draw us closer. What he did instead was run away from the preceived problem in hopes that starting over with someone new would be an easier way to go. The chicken’s way out! And, as he has subsequently found out, it is NOT the easier way to go.
I thought we were fine. I knew he had his problems, but never demanded that he be something he is not. I never expected perfection and a fairytale. He did.
For now we are both dealing in reality and that’s a good thing!
April 4th, 2007 at 7:10 am
Nicki – exactly what my H did – he was disappointed and hurt about things in our marriage but he didn’t tell me that clearly – he says because he didn’t want to hurt me, as if what he did hurt me any less! At one point last year when he was still seeing her as a “friend,” he told me that this woman had given him something he needed – I asked him why he had not asked me for what he needed and he replied that he just couldn’t – at another time he also said that he sometimes questioned his own self-esteem because he didn’t make his wants and needs known. The thing is, when he finally started disclosing that he was unhappy, back in Nov. of 2005, that is what started me snooping and suspecting. It was painful but I guess that I should be thankful that he at least revealed that to me even if he was too cowardly to tell me that he was having an affair. I think it was his dysfunctional way of telling me that something was very very wrong.
If I had to sum it up, and like you, knowing what I do about psychology, I would say that he thought that our relationship would just always work – without needing to work at it at times. For my part, I knew that there were things that should be better but I just accepted things the way they were – and that wasn’t right either, but it’s just who I am sometimes.
I think that he still clings to that thought in a way – that this will all work out without effort – but I also see him deliberately doing certain things that I know are designed to let me know that he loves me – a few months ago he saw me flinch when he mentioned he had parent conferences – the obvious reason was that I know that he met her in school because she was a parent of one of his students – a couple of days later, he mentioned that he noticed it and said that he should have mentioned it on the spot because he wants to deal directly with things rather than go off and brood about what they might mean, etc. So I think that is a good sign.
As I sit and read and write here is what I think – it is the people who are in marriages who think that they are working well who need to read all of this too – I know that no one wants to read about infidelity – like, maybe they think it’s catching? but I feel like if I had somehow read all this stuff long ago something would have resonated and maybe we could have prevented this
April 4th, 2007 at 8:22 am
Marlene–I think that, in my case, if I had stumbled on this site pre-affair, I would have never read anything here b/c I was convinced that it would NEVER happen to our marriage. (I would have bet money on it too! lol)
My H is emotionally autistic (I think I coined a new term here). He is in therapy now. His therapist is helping him lose the fear of feeling the full range of his emotions. Things are so much better now, however, I told him that I would file for divorce if he stops therapy. No doubt he passed this message to his therapist and, to my great relief, she told him that she agreed with me.
Of course, I love him or I wouldn’t still be here, but if he refuses to learn how to deal head-on (honestly) with life’s curveballs/disappointments then I will have to leave in order to protect and preserve my own sanity.
I agree with you when you say your husband thought your marriage would all work out without effort. My husband said that very thing to me. But, when you think about it, isn’t that the same flawed thinking that enabled them to grant themselves permission to enage in an affair? I can hear them thinking to themselves, “This relationship is effortless” It isn’t until it’s “not so easy” anymore, and the bloom is off the rose, that they begin to panic b/c instead of having just one messed up relationship now they have 2!
I am so happy to hear that your husband has turned his sensitivity dial up enough for you to see changes in actions that indicate there’s a change in his thinking!
One thing is certain, our relationships have changed (the relationship with our h’s AND the one we have with ourselves) and there’s no going back now even if we wanted to!
I never thought I would reach this point, and although it might be fleeting, I wouldn’t want to go back to the way things were even if I had the chance to do it. It’s so much more honest now…even if it’s ugly–it’s real.
April 4th, 2007 at 9:52 am
Good Morning Everybody,
I agree with you both Nicki and Marlene.
There is no going back and that’s the way it is for us both. He can’t come clean and be honest and does not want to. He does not know how to be an honest person any longer if he were it would be different. He can’t/won’t talk about it, does not want the subject brought up at all. Like it’s going to go away by itself and never come back. As I told him he went to far for to long and left me alone for 2 plus years without anything from him, his friendship, companionship, love, caring and the list went on, he did not know what to say and said nothing because he does not want to be reminded of the fact this was his fault not mine nor my choice in life, it was soley his.
You are right they cannot talk to you about about the changes they want out of fear of change not only from us but themselves. We all get involved in things we do jobs, family, chores and husband/boyfriend/fiancee so lots comes into play and we do not see what we think we see sometimes untill it is to late.
He cannot accept responsibility for his actions and I believe in his mind he justified them all to his liking, he is as screwed up as she is. Wish them both the best if that’s what he really wants.
I just cannot believe a word that comes out of his mouth anymore even if he were telling the truth I would always question, what is he really saying or doing he is such a good liar I can’t tell one way or the other.
I have a real problem with trust in all this he broke it and I don’t want to give it back for fear of being hurt more, what if it happens again. I cannot go throught this a second time with him to hard on me and my health. I changed allot and there is nothing left here for me as I see it I was just left alone for to long.
Later, wish us all the best.
April 4th, 2007 at 10:47 am
Sandy–I felt the same way you did. I would tell him that he “waited too long to choose me”. It’s a very disheartening thought. But, it is what I felt. But, when I think back over the 25 years, I realized that except for the moment that he proposed, I had many, many moments where I felt “unchosen” even when h