Learn from these real life extramarital affair coaching scenarios.
In the first section the person struggling with the marital infidelity summarizes the scenario or concern and what he/she would like to say to his/her cheating spouse.
I then outline some goals that help him/her break free from the affair.
The last and important section gets at shifting the focus away from the spouse/partner to him/her self. In other words, what does all this mean for the person on the receiving end of an extramarital affair? After that mental shift (which is NOT easy for someone in the pain and turmoil of perhaps losing one’s spouse, family, and home) I, the coach, offer phrases that he/she can relay to his/her spouse in a way that speaks directly of his/her concern and has the best chance of being heard and getting positive results.
Section 1: The “offended spouse” says:
Trust has been broken and it will never be the same. I know that at some point he will earn my trust back but it will never be the same level. This whole experience has taught me to think about my needs, think of the ways that the relationship has been unfulfilling for me and asking for what I want. It helped me find out about boundaries and how to figure out which boundaries I needed to set up. I just defend my space more I guess. If I find out that he is having another affair, it would be easier for me to accept the truth and walk away, rebuild my life because I spent enough time on myself and figured out what I want and who and what my sources of support are. I am interested in learning more about identifying and breaking the barriers that keep us from making an authentic and lasting connection. I think at the bottom of all barriers there is FEAR. How do we get over the fear to reach out and connect? My husband says I always have bad timing for these conversations. I feel very much like I am an invisible wife when we are together. We are just polite to each other. “Moving on” for him is to bury the past. I think it’s easier for the offender to bury the past. I have to say, there was more passion and more sex between us when the affair was going on because we really talked all the time about our feelings. Once he stopped the relationship, he avoids talking about his feelings and if I want to have this kind of intimacy with him, the door is “shut”. Sex is very blah because I feel invisible. It’s almost as if every move he makes to get close to me ( a hug, a kiss ) is very tentative, not really coming from a place of intimacy but it is more like a surface stroke. Why is he being so tentative and blah? I know I have too many questions but I need your help.
Section 2: Personal goals suggested by the coach
- Determine the pattern, the impasse, the barrier that precludes more intimacy.
- Identify the fearful part of me.
- Get to the bottom of “bad timing.??
- Explore in detail the kind of affair that you faced to help determine strategy.
Section 3: What the affair means for the “offended spouse” and what he/she REALLY wants to say to his spouse/partner having the affair:
- If the affair was “I don’t want to say no”" “I’m not sure I’m willing to live in a relationship where I struggle so much with being “invisible.?? I’m not sure when I will draw the line, but I’m almost certain it will be drawn, if I continue to feel the void.
- If the affair was “I need to prove my desirability”" “It is difficult maintaining and building our intimacy, the way it seems. I struggle with that?? feeling ok about myself. I wonder if you do too?”
- If the affair was “I want to be close to someone, but can’t stand intimacy”" “Wow! This has been a roller coaster ride. We move close, we move away. We seem to be pulling away now. I suppose this serves some purpose?”
- If the affair was “My marriage made me do it”" “OK, What the #%@# is going on here? There’s a part of me that wants to spit nails. I do NOT want to live this way. I’m royally #$% off at how this is going! And, I would think you might be #$#%# off too!”
What is your situation? Describe your situation. Let it flow. Don’t hold back. Then, ask yourself, “What does this marital mean for ME?” What impact does his/her extramarital affair have on my feelings, thoughts and actions? Then rehearse approaching your spouse/partner with phrases that convey the meaning and impact of the infidelity for YOU.
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January 8th, 2007 at 10:59 am
Sandy
I checked out that website and decided to write here as the other blog is getting so long. In checking it out i found some things that were so true that I didnt see through those things. I was in an emotional abuse situation but never gave it much merit, just lived with it I guess. Anyway I read a part where the abuser tries to come back making the promises etc, claiming their love. He did this on many occasions and after reading this it allowed me to learn that the reason he did it waas to try to regain control over me again. I guess I didnt fall for it as I would have years earlier because of the 6 children who were at stake. I just stood back from it and let time show true colors and it did and didnt even take very long. Once he realized he couldnt control me he ran far and fast. Even his recent attempts to convince my daughter we never had a relationship ever, I mean really 26 yrs, 6 kids give me a break. But it is their way of trying to continually keep you in an abuseve state by trying to hurt you whatever way they can and not face up to their own demons. It said affairs are about anything but love, there about desperation. So remember this girls, I believe Dr Bobs theory in that eventually their relationship with the op will everntually recyle the same. I believe he will eventually become controlling of her life as he did mine, no friends, telling me how to dress what to wear who to talk to using anger to make you co toe to their ways. She is young and may not have the intelligence or strength to see it and or leave it but will affect her personally. He will have her where he wants her but what will they really have. I have a newfound freedom and even though its been a huge struggle emotionally, financially more and more everyday I am a new person. There is hope I never thought I could get past it and many times I still do fall back but more and more as times goes on there are more better days than bad days. Even though I am alone i am more fulfilled in many ways. Anyone who thinks they might be in and emotionally abusive relationship should read the website you provided. Thanks it gave me a different perspective on this whole thing
January 8th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Shennie,
Oh my gosh, yes. He is verbally and emotionally abusive, and VERY CONTROLLING. He has always tried to control every aspect of my life and the kids. He hates the relationship I have with my parents and friends. He always puts down my appearance to make me feel inferior to him. I guess I was doing the same thing you did, you get USED to this treatment, and after many years you start to believe something is wrong you. My biggest heartache is the kids. I just cry thinking about being divorced and how they will adjust. Did your kids do OK???? Also, what exactly is the SURFACE STROKE? I agree with you that they will also try and control the OP eventually.
January 8th, 2007 at 9:41 pm
Shennie & Liz, So sorry for what you both are going through and are still going through. My husband is verbally abusive but he does it in the form of a joke. But if the other person isn’t laughing then it’s not funny. I’ve started to draw boundaries and when he goes too far, I leave the room. Of course, then he gets mad and says I take things too personally. I don’t mind jokes and there are things he can tease me about, but outright disrespect especially in front of others is unacceptable. And lately he’s started doing it to my kids. He told my 10 year old daughter in front of some friends that she needed to use deodorant b/c she smelled and then he laughed. She was mortified. Liz, if you allow him to speak to you disrespectfully, you will be teaching your daughters that it’s ok for their boyfriends/husbands to treat them disrespectfully and you’ll be teaching your sons how to treat their girlfriends/wives. About a year ago, we were all eating in a restaurant (when affair was hot & heavy) and he was being really, really mean to me and started quietly yelling at me. I calmly said, that’s it. You’re not talking to me that way. I got up & said kids let’s go. We left him sitting there by himself. I told my kids that it was unacceptable the way that he was behaving. They understood and I hope that it taught them about respecting others. He’s still verbally abusive but it’s more subtle now. I think that he is angry & miserable and I’m the easiest one to take it out on. Don’t worry about your kids. They will be fine. I’m sure it will be hard, but they need you in one piece emotionally. If your husband is draining you, then you will have nothing left to give them.
Take care & I wish you both well!
January 9th, 2007 at 12:00 am
Glad we are moving to a new section. The other blog was getting pretty hard to manuveur thru. I think the surface stroke is the cheater telling you what you want to hear and not really getting to the truth. It’s saying they are committed to you, the affair is over, “trying” to communicate, show you affection, etc. but deep down nothing has changed. It’s like just going through the motions but not really meaning it. They are still involved, still detatched and still cheating. I can say that my husband never has been abusive, verbally or otherwise. But when he is seeing her, his demeanor toward me and the kids changes. He is less involved, I guess. I can tell, because he loses interest in the kids and has a really short fuse with me and them over little things. It triggers my suspicions every time and I am always right.
I can say that this is my last cycle of him getting off the fence. I know that for my health both physically and mentally, I cannot go through this again. No matter how much he cries and begs to stay and ends it with her or not, I won’t be able to take him back. At some point I have to think about me. I have two small kids and as much as it will kill me to put them through a divorce and the back and forth between two houses etc. I know that in the long run I will be a better mother if I am mentally healthy. This relapse of him seeing her again, just about did me in. Things have been so great. We were getting along great, talking, sharing, loving. We had a great holiday. We made plans for a trip in April. We are going away this weekend together without the kids. All his ideas. Then he gets this “overwhelming” feeling to see and talk to her and he acts on it. He said he needed to find out if the feeling was that he needed to be with her but only found that as soon as he got there and talked to her he thought “What am I doing here?” I guess I should be glad for that. That he found that seeing her didn’t make him feel better or answer his questions of doubt. My only regret is that I didn’t grab him before he left and tell him to just stay home from work and be with me. That I didn’t go with my instinct and stop it before he left. I know I can’t blame myself, and he might have gone anyway, but the sick feeling started as soon as he left that day. I knew by the way he kissed me good bye and sat on the bed like he wanted to say something.
So here I am starting from square one again and starting the grieving process over again. Hopefully, it will go quicker this time. I am over the denial phase. Anger is coming, I can feel it. Acceptance, well only time will tell I guess. If there is a “next” time, I have promised myself that as horrible as telling my family, our friends etc. that we are getting a divorce, it won’t be as horrible as living like this. At least I won’t be betrayed and decieve anymore. At least I can get my self esteem back and self respect. The hardest part is the telling. Telling my family, his family and most importantly, my kids. It would be truely devastating to everyone, but life is not always easy and people will get used to it, as will I and the kids.
I have read alot about what to do with pre-schoolers and divorce. How they will feel and what to say and do. I need to protect them and make them feel safe. I won’t ruin their lives because their parents screwed up. I will put them first always. I will find the strength somehow. I looked at my beautiful little girl this morning and saw her smiling face (she is always chatting and smiling) and thought may you never feel this kind of pain ever in your life and may you always smile like you are now. I can only hope I will not have to go through with a divorce and that this time it really is over.
January 9th, 2007 at 2:49 am
Liz
You gotta check out that website that Sandy left it really opened different doors for me because even though I knew he was like that it didnt phase me that it had alot to do with how everything came about. I will explain it a bit and hopefully may shine more perspective on your own things.
In the prior two years before he left I became a volunteer for our local skating club, I took on a huge position which involved dealing with alot of people. There were meetings only once a month and when I would go he would grill me about it afterward and if I was home past the time he thought I should be I certainly heard about it. Most of this is usually done not in front of people or if it is it is people who dont matter. He rarely did it in front of friends so as not to give himself away, we had workers on our farm who were mexican and he definately did it in front of them, I guess to show them his power. He once let something slip in front of his brother totally embarassing me and instead of arguing I just walked out , his brother chastised him and came to me to apologize on his behalf. Lets just say they know when and how to do it so they dont look bad. Anyway the more I became involved the more he hated it, we also switched dance studios to a larger club(more People) and he began to resent that. We would go out with the other parents and we would come home and whine , they dont like me etc etc so as to discourage us from being involved. Even before this I had paint classes, he had every excuse in the book why I couldnt or shouldnt go, I missed 6 weeks and finally quit and it didnt bother him a bit. It never occurred to me that the more he thought he lost control of me the farther away from me he went and the closer to her because she could be controlled. Its so weird. But I have to tell you even through all the sadness I do have to say that if I want to talk on the phone I can, if I want to have so and so for a friend I can, there is a new found freedom in that you can again become who you once were.
MS my X did something to my daughter too which did come up in the disclosure of the kids. My oldest was 14 at the time and of course the teenage years upon her, anyway she bought a thong while shopping one day, he stole it from her and took it to the market where we sell our products and gave it to a lady who starched it for him into a candy dish, she returned it the following market and in front of my daughter and other kids, and fellow vendors and customers, flagged it in the air badly embarassing her in front of everyone. also making it seem like a joke but definately wasnt. Joke or no joke it is absolutely a form of control and power over someone.
Its not younger kids that are most affected by divorce, it is the older children. The age is directly related to how they will continue and the actions your x takes in handling things with them. I believe if they are 6 and under they are fairly unaffected if he continues to be part of their life and even so they have not yet developed huge feelings and adjust very well to any new environment as long as they are doing the things they like to do. If they are 12 or older they are scarred in ways, they have developed much deeper feelings for this person and truly look to them good or bad they will either hate him , or use the situation to their own advantage by playing both sides. The in between age depends on his relationship with them, my one daughter was 9 and did not have tremendous feelings but enough that she had no value for him any longer and not enough so that she missed anything she hadnt really become accustomed to. I supporse alot of this depends on many factors, their environment, their personal losses and how he deals with them and all of it in general. So there prob is no real rule of thumb but those were my experiences. We often think that when they are young it will hurt more but I think it is the opposite. My 16 yrs olds daughters boyfriend father left when he was 4 or 5 and his mother remarried. The father made bigger efforts when he was 8 to be a part of his life but the boy looked to his new father as his dad. He is now sixteen and has not seen his real father for many years by his choice and his step father he calls dad and is his real father for every intent and purpose that matter. For some of my kids they call him by his first name and for the others he is their father but not their dad. Hope that makes some sense.
January 9th, 2007 at 3:10 am
Joan
Ya the shoe does feel good on the other foot doesnt it, its a real gas actually. Play it up and let her wallow in her own bed you deserve to give a little something back for all her trouble afterall lol.
Sue, I hope for you everything works out the way you hope, What I have a hard time understanding about all of these situations is that once its found out it should go one way or another and not carry on for months on end. If they only had the shoe on the other foot how would they feel, I wonder what they would say if you asked how would they like it or what would they do. Maybe there is some merit to that, say you want to have a little chat and instead of you telling him what you think or want him to do, let him do the answering and maybe thats the key. its worth a shot. I mean think about it , like if you said okay well pretend it was me in another relationship what would you ask of me, how would you feel if I didnt end it. What would you want me to do if I said I want things to work etc. write some question that of course have obvious answers and without telling him what they are let him give them. They are not stupid and do know right from wrong. I know my ex if someone had told him of our situation like it was their own he would have choice words but since it was him he didnt. I did and thinking back it may have been of benefit to ask him how he thought things should go, just think about it at some point anything is worth a try at least with this theory you are not putting them on the defense and giving them the chance to make it their idea . You know the old that a great idea even if it may have been yours to begin with. We are all praying for you.
That boy who passed his Dad put a letter on his website today about family and love and his wife being the heart of the family and how grateful he was etc etc. brought tears to my eyes to see that there are real men out there. He said his boy got up out of his bed ten minutes before he passed, drugged to the nines for pain and hugged them, laid back down and passed on, it was so so sad, I cried so hard I had a headache for the rest of the day.but it gave me hope that their are good people out there somewhere and Id rather have one of those than the one I had. halleluia
January 9th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Hi all. I did post on the other blog last night, but will start posting here.
MS…..I am sitting here in tears reading your entry. I feel your pain in your words. I feel it easily as you describe exactly how I feel. Except for the telling part. I have not had any trouble with that. It has helped me to tell. It is all I’ve had for support.
Hang in there….whatever that means and know that you are strong and will be OK. If the kids don’t know anything yet and you do end up there, you will have another round to wade through. But I have to say, if you can hang in, it sounds like you and your husband might be able to pull through this. Read Marlene’s entries of past. I’ve recently spoken with a friend who also stayed through the back and forth and is so glad for it. Talked to someone else again last night who’s sister stayed and is so happy for it. These are the stories that keep me going.
Of course, I don’t even have him home. So I may never have the chance to stay through the back and forth. Which would be a shame. I don’t feel like I’m getting the ‘surface stroke’. There have been some pretty major changes for the better. But I am married to someone who has never been very good with delayed gratification. So how is he going to pull this off now? Maybe he can if he truly loses me………..but then what?
Enough about me. Another day. MS…….I’ll be thinking of you.
January 9th, 2007 at 9:18 am
Shennie,
Your post showed up after I had written. We do talk about all of that…..and often. This is where he makes no excuses. The excuses come when he is kidding himself to try to avoid the pain….which is inevitable. He knows that now, but it is a recent realization. He truly bought the line “I need some time to unravel this mess.” Honestly, I bought it at first as well (as I think I wrote at one point).
I now know that a relatively ‘nice’ ending is a fantasy. Time in this way is a fantasy. It just has to happen and we have to go through the pain of the next steps. Again……any ideas for web sites to help him through this? He wants the help and it is killing me to provide that level as well. I need to continue to take care of me and the kids. I can support him, but I can’t be his counselor. AND if she doesn’t move out for good………no support, counseling, or anything else. I’ll just be scraping myself off the ground.
January 9th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Sue, my husband and I have been looking for support for him online also, but haven’t been able to really find anything. Not really any forums for the one who cheats. I am going to look at IVillage.com today to see if they have any discussion boards for them. I bought Dr.Guzenburg’s book online, as recommended by Dr. Bob. It has a great section for the cheating spouse and a bonus book for them. He did say that it helped him quite a bit. The problem is they have to want to get help and read and get counseling. My husband wasn’t really ready till now. He said he was before, I think to make me feel better, but never went through with it. We did go to a marriage counselor for a time in the summer, but he was still in the thick of things, back and forth and as you well know, it wasn’t really going to do any good with her still in the picture. A waste of time at that point. We are supposed to make an appt with a new marriage counselor and individual therapy as well. We shall see what happens with that, only time will tell.
June D, Shennie, Liz, I am so sorry to hear that along with the pain of the affair, that you have to deal with abuse also. As I said previously, my husband has never been abusive. He actually has always been very loving and even when I was big and pregnant, always complimented me and tried to make me feel beautiful. I think that’s partly why I didn’t pick up on the affair at first, until he was way into it and I was pushing him away because I was angry and suspicious. I was thinking if he was this horrible person who verbally or physically abused me or my kids etc. I would just let him go, good riddance. Even at his worst, he only had a disinterest in me and the kids and a short fuse with us. Of course I was there to funnel the tension off by taking care of them so he wouldn’t lose it with them. I know that it’s easier said than done and that for all of us, we have our reasons for staying. I think that’s where therapy comes into play. Abusers lower your self esteem and make you think you are not worthy of respect and love. That’s how they get you to hold on. Control you. I’m not saying any of you should give up on your marriages because of this, that is for you to decide. I just hope that you don’t let him knock you down so bad that you think you are not worthy of a better life. I know I couldn’t see the forest for the trees so to speak, but once I clear my head and see that there is life out there without him and I can make it on my own, I can do it if need be.
In a way I guess affairs are all a type of abuse. So I guess my husband did abuse me, emotionally. I’ll have to think about that more. Thanks for the kind words and I’ll be checking in to see how you all are doing. Take care of YOU!
January 9th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
MS….thanks. I also downloaded that book over the weekend and just sent it to him this AM. He asked for it and I hope he’ll actually take the time to read it. He has already read an excerpt from it that was on another site and found it really helpful (the whole addiction thing).
However, still haven’t heard from him today and have no idea what that means….if anything. I feel like I’m going to throw up. As painful as it all is I just need a more defined direction right now. Clearly not making it through today so well…….
January 9th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Sue, at least he is making an effort to work back toward the marriage. It’s like they say, it ain’t over till it’s over. They have to really want it. They are the one’s who are weak, not us. Look at us, how strong we are! We have to be to be able to survive this. Don’t give up. Be his rock. Show him that you’re love is worth fighting for. I am hoping that if the addiction cycle can be broken with my husband than we will truely have a chance. Although, I think at this point if he reached out again to the OP, she would spit in his face, since he has given her the heeve ho like 7 times I think. If there is a next time of him reaching out to her, she will be the one with the ultimatum. Divorce me or else. She will be the one backed into the corner. And if that happens we can only see what he will do.
January 9th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Hi all. Desperate today. Trying to stay out of that state, but it crept up on me. Haven’t had an anxiety attack in months and had two full blown ones today. YUCK!
My husband did not call me today until tonight after promising to do so. However, his apologies are the why. He actually went to the OP’s counselor with her. SO hard to hear. However, so much of what needs to be done got done. He was totally honest (I do believe this) with her for the first time. Saying it was over was not it and we both knew it. Telling her his feelings for me was a different story.
He is still so conflicted and I hate it, but sounds so much more calm. Thanks me for pushing him to be honest and despite my doubts, tells me it was a huge step in our direction. Again, the last chapter is so far from being written. I feel better, but only because I have felt so awful all day. After that, not so much better.
Trying to hang in there. I could give more detail but I don’t want to put you all to sleep. We are both looking forward to more discussions tomorrow night. My deadline hangs in the air.
As always…….all thoughts welcome. Thank you MS….You got me through the day. Tomorrow……….
January 10th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Sue
I am trying to remember how long this has gone on for you and dont want to go back through all the blogs.
Wow went to a counsellor with her.I find that a little hard to understand in some ways. Are you and him also going to a counsellor. What is having her there going to accomplish I should think that he might go on his own rather than with her,and the same for her. Is this the trying to break it off thing because I am concerned that it may just bring her closer to her. I have never heard of this.
My heart goes out to you
January 10th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Vincent
I have a couple of kids the same age as the kids you have that felt the same way. I will give you some insight if you really want to repair the damage youve done.
Firstly if you have ended it make sure it stays ended otherwise the first time you step out of line it will take even more for them to have faith in you again. My x did that too, supposedly ended it even told them he was dumping her so to speak, they waited to see if it happend waited to see if they were important enough for it to be true. He didnt do it and kept us all on a roller coaster ride for months on end. the longer the ride the less chance you will ever recover anything. It has been 4 yrs and at this point he has caused them so much damage they do have not spoken much to him during this entire time. When they have he has only layed blame elsewhere. the key to that is accept responsibility and do not blame anyone else for your behavior. own it. Sit them down and have a heart to heart , but dont make promises you are not prepared to keep. My x never sat down with them to talk to them and face it all and it did not work to his favor to avoid it it only grew worse. The one child that was brave enough to confront him because she was almost the age of his girlfriend and was apalled about that part of it, tried to tell him so and he demanded of her that she not talk to him like that because he was her father and she had no right to talk to him this way. Well she did and he was only using a form of anger and control to belittle her feelings of morality and judgement.They never spoke again for over 2 yrs. There are grandchildren he will never see in his lifetime, so sad for him.
All I can really say is what you say you better mean or your sol. At this stage of your life what most people dont realize is it is very difficult to begin again. You will never have this same family to grow old with . You will spend your life dating finding someone else with some other persons kids and have a bish bosh of mixed family madness and just be going through life and the motions. If your sorry prove it and dont look back because if you do and the longer you do the more it will all be doomed to failure.
January 10th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Hi Ladies,
I am glad I found you all at this blog too, the other is sooo long!
MS, I totally know where you are “at” with the children and divorce. I am in the same boat as far as not wanting a divorce, but feeling hopeless, etc. If I find out my husband is lying again, or seeing her AT ALL, I will divorce him. No more chances. (he is well aware of this).
Also, has anyone been “fooled” for the 3rd time? I have been fooled twice now… and I don’t think I can emotionally handle a 3rd time, but I am well aware of the possibility, believe me. He said something the other night that upset me, he used the line, “do you really think I could get away with it again?” and I told him “yes!”. He tells me that his head was messed up and now he’s better, and stonger, etc. Do you think this is lip service and have your spouses ever used the line, “I am here aren’t I? If I wanted to be with her I would, etc”……just curious if he’s following a similar pattern to other men, etc.
January 10th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Sue, I am so sorry you are feeling badly. I am also having anxiety attacks from this last bout of him seeing the OP. My husband wrote me a very long email last night about how much he loves me and how sorry and ashamed he is about what he has done to me. Promises of getting help, truth telling, honesty etc. (He is out of town on travel for work) I think I am anxious because when he has been gone before on travel, this is when he can talk freely to her without me there lurking. It’s different this time as I can check his email to see if they are in contact. But, I am still sick to my stomach every minute.
My question to you is “Are you ready for the deadline?” Are you preparing yourself for if he doesn’t give you the answer you want? I just hate for you to paint yourself into a corner if you aren’t ready. I know it’s like how much more can I take, but sometimes the waiting, which sucks, is all you can do until he is really, truely ready to do ALL he can to come home. Does he know the conditions that you are going to make if he comes home? Do you know the conditions you will need to give him? My husband was never truely transparent until now. And even now I have my doubts, as I am never sure anymore what he would do to me. He has done soooooo many hurtful, deceitful things. Things I never imagined he or anyone could do to another person. I know this may be hard to hear, but pushing him into a deadline may not be the way to go. I always felt like I was the one doing all the “work”. He would just say yes to ease the tension, but until he did it on his own, it wasn’t working. All I can say is they have to do it on their own, their own timeline, etc. It’s so hard to let them go and just be there willing to talk and forgive. I know there is a point of enough is enough. Maybe you are there. As long as you can cope with the decision he makes then I’ll be here for you to talk to. I will check back often to see how you are. If you would like to email me I can give you my email address. Praying for you.
My husband will be home tonight, I think so not sure if I’ll be at the chat session. My name on there is trying to trust. Don’t know why I didn’t just use MS. Anyway, stay strong, take deep breaths and take care of you. MS
January 10th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Liz, 3rd time? Gosh let’s see this is like number 7 of him going back to “talk” maybe more. There are times that I don’t even know of that he was in touch with her and when he didn’t leave me she wouldn’t talk to him. All I can say is if you feel it in your gut, you’re probably right. Don’t do anything about it until you have proof though. Don’t accuse with just a feeling. Everyone’s situation is different so I can’t tell you for sure you won’t have to deal with this again. I know in my case it’s the addiction of the affair, this 2,3,4 wk cycle that he couldn’t break. He would go 2-3 wks with no contact and be fine, happy here etc and then get the feeling, need, whatever to contact her. He said he could not do anything to stop it. Now he says the last time he gave in to talk to her he realized as he was sitting there that he really didn’t love her and he thought what am I doing here. He said he started comparing us, and that what he felt for me was what he wanted. Only then it was too late as he had reeled her in again. So I found an email from her about it. (I installed a keylogger program on my computer that couldn’t be detected by him) I confronted him, I actually packed his bags this time. He came flying home from work, crying, apologizing, begging……Then came the truth! He has been the one to pursue her. He always goes back etc. It took us two days to figure out this addiction thing and we made an appt today with a new counselor. The old one wasn’t helping.
And Liz, those exact words have come out of my husband’s mouth about if I wanted to leave I would, and if I wanted to be with her why wouldn’t I just go blah, blah, blah. My husband never left except for a few days here and there. He always says, why couldn’t I leave, why didn’t I just go? He has told me that the very first time he didn’t leave was mainly because of the kids, but that after that he would say he was leaving, tell her he was and then as soon as he saw me, he just couldn’t do it. Anyway, you’ll have to decide for yourself if he is telling the truth. Trust is a very hard thing to earn back. Just one comment from them can send you reeling in doubt. I too have said this is the last time. Then here we are again. I guess the more times it happens the stronger I get though. Each time my plan for divorce gets further along. This time was different I must say. There is no hiding anything. I have all passwords, phone etc. I am not afraid to ask or look and he knows I will. Only time will tell the outcome. I wish you well. Take care.
January 10th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Hi, I was just wondering if we could share our ages, spouses and that of the OP.
I am 37, spouse 43, OP 47. Just wanted to get an idea of all of us since we’ve been corresponding for quite some time. Again, you all have made me so much stronger with your support.
January 10th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
MS – I got the same thing, “If I wanted to be with her, don’t you think I would just leave and be with her” and you know what I told him, “NO, you want us BOTH! You want your wife and family at home, and your girlfriend on the SIDE”. and then he just gets all defensive and flustered. Did he also tell you, “I’ve never realized just how much I love you until now” blah, blah, blah. Did your husband tell you that he would never “risk doing it again”? this is all the talk I am getting right now. And he confessed that he initiated all the contact too. Did your husband tell you that by asking details it wasn’t doing you two any good? Or how about, “we need to move forward”. It’s endless. I just want to know if it’s “for real” and I guess I won’t for a very long time. How do you get a keystroke program, and do you need to know thier e-mail password? How does it work. I am an expert on cell phone bills, just not keystroke programs! Ha!
January 10th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Shennie…….and all…..the affair started the first weekend in June of last year. I found out the last week in August (after much confronting and denying). He moved out after 2 weeks, was back for one and then moved out on our anniversary in mid Sept. for ‘good’. I’m 43, he’s 45 and she is 27.
The counselor they went to is her therapist. I’m practicing keeping my mouth shut with that one because they talked about how they would ‘seperate’ and not have contact. The therapist gave the OP the book “After the Affair” and was quite clear that the triangle had to be over. It seems he may have actually found a counselor through this therapist. Hate the avenue, but we were at a dead end.
I just don’t know what will happen. I believe I am prepared to hold to the deadline. We’ve done so much work that he now has to give her up and stop hurting me in this way if there is any hope of moving forward. He is making it increasingly hard on himself and I think will only do it with a deadline……if at all.
Divorce takes time, so we’ll see. I pray it doesn’t get there. I am willing to move the deadline for progress and a plan (not much of a move mind you), but have not told him that as he is very focused on having this done by Monday. We were all supposed to go skiing which I still want to do and let her move out while we are gone. Of course this is unfathomable to him. This is where I become not-so-good at charging neutral. I’m trying though. I’ve/We’ve made it this far I think I need to take a lot of deep breaths and see where the next few days bring us. I wish he could see that the more time he spends with her the harder it is for them to stop. Although she seems to have gone somewhere for last night and tonight (he’s having dinner here). So it looks like I’ll have to brace myself for Thursday-Sunday, skiing alone with the kids and having no idea if I’ll be single or not when I return. We do have counseling on Friday.
My poor kids…….I am almost guarenteed to be cranky from all the stress. Will try to stay positive. Thanks again for all the support.
BTW I was going to buy “Not Just Friends” and I remembered I bought a book in September (and read it). Turns out it was that one. He gets it tonight.
January 10th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
Hi All… I am 40, spouse just turned 46 and OP is 44. I have 3 children, 10,10 & 4. The OP has a grown daughter who has a lot of issues! No money, no husband, can’t keep a job or a boyfriend and has 2 kids (4 & newborn) with 2 different fathers who are not in the picture. Always borrowing money, needing help with the kids, etc. OP also has a lot of health issues. She use to be a client of my husbands about 12 years ago and they developed a friendship (never out of her office). He hired her to replace me as his controller when I had my 4 year old. He always liked her & she & I & her husband would go out together and had a great time. My husband has never been much of a family man-alway work and his hobbies (motorcycles, etc) but does love his kids and would do things with us. She has been miserable in her marriage for a long time and in spring of ’05 they worked closely on a project together and I think that she chased him (bought him things, etc). But he says it was all his idea but she was obviously receptive. Anyway, in May ’05 it heated up and he told her he loved her, etc. I figured out the affair in June ’06 but he denied it. Got proof (charged a dinner when I went out of town) and told him end of July that I was leaving. I believed that it was just an emotional affair-phone calls, e-mail, breakfast, dinners, etc). He broke it off and told me he loved me. I didn’t have him fire her but his business partner told her she would be fired if she crossed the line. I knew she loved her job and I thought they could just go back to being friends. I was naive but hindsight is 20/20. Anyway, they got secret phones, met on the sly, etc. I discovered it in Jan ’06 which completely baffled me b/c we were doing so much better. He had his moments where he’d be ok one day and distant & critical the next. It was still a roller coaster but far different that 6 months before that. Anyway, I told him in Feb ’06 after I put a recorder in his car & found out exactly what was going on. Got the attorney & everything. He cried & cried (never cries) and fired her the next day. Went to counseling & apologized and I thought for sure this was over. In a week he was calling her to check on her, see if she got another job, etc. Found a txt mail from her on his phone in March & told him to get out & threw phone @ door & broke phone. He told me he had ended it a few day b/f – lie which I discovered 2 weeks later when I got txt mail detail from Verizon. Called her husband (our friend) and told him. He was devasted. I was really hoping he would kick my husband’s ass. Very disappointed that he didn’t. I think that would have ended it. Anyway nothing changed. We moved forward but he resumed contact. Found something else & kicked him out for a week and he said he called her & told her it was over-loved his family, etc. Seemed sincere. Came home. Resumed contact through e-mail on phone but stopped when I noticed that kilobites were high. But couldn’t prove anything. Used calling card then to talk to her. I found calling card in Sept and told him to leave, but decided to wait til Jan 15 so kids could have a good Christmas. So, you see Liz, we all are talked into staying. I’m looking at my e-mail & thinking “What a complete fool I’ve been!” If he wants her, leave. But He wants me & the kids & the house, etc, too. But there are too many things now that don’t make sense & he’s still distant, won’t go to counseling though he did start attending a Bible study. Has been nicer the last few days. Maybe he’s b/t contact again. But I did start the marriagemax & I really like it. It’s 7 weeks & I’m going to try to not think about her until it’s over. But it’s really hard! Hopefully by then he’ll have given her up & if not, I should be strong enough to let go and leave. If we all had a crystal ball, we would know what to do, but we don’t & we’re all trying to make the right decision, especially for the future & for out kids. But I’ve done my absolute best for the last year & 1/2 (as I’m sure all of you have) and if he leaves, he leaves & I can live with that. Best of luck to all of you. I pray that your marriages work out but more importantly I pray that you have peace and that you make the decisions that will give you the best life you can have. btw… sorry I rambled so long… feeling a little down & appreciate your support :)
January 10th, 2007 at 9:29 pm
Liz, my husband said almost exactly all the same things to me that your husband has said to you. His famous words were “It’s over just get over it” “She hates me, are you happy?” “I just want to forget about it and move on” “You’re never going to trust me so we might as well cut our losses and just end it” Plus all the ones you mentioned and probably more. It’s funny, that affairs are so similar in nature. If I have learned anything from this it’s that cheaters have some kind of character flaw, I think. They all have similar ways of thinking and feeling. Strangers, yet so much alike in character. I wish there were a support group somewhere for them all to go and see that other cheaters say and do the same things they have. Talk about how they felt and how they got to the point they are at. My husband has been looking online for someplace like this for support but has found nothing. Maybe if Dr. Bob is reading this, he could start a blog for the cheaters to go to and feel safe. Somewhere they can go to post their feelings without judgement. There is alot of support for the offended partner but none for the offenders.
The keysroke program I bought was online at Spyrecon.com I think. You pay with a credit card and download it to your computer. Then you can use the “stealth” mode to hide it from being seen. Initaially, I had to delete it from the desktop icons, but it still is in the harddrive. The program will tell you how to access it and use a password you create to see whats been done. It works. Good luck. MS
January 10th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
Oh forgot. You wanted to know stats on ages and such. I am 38, husband 38 and OP 33. We have been married 11yrs, 2 kids ages 5.5 and 4 and dated for 5 yrs before we married. We also went thru inferitlity with my 5 y/o and for 5 yrs and ended up doing invitro fertilization with her then when my daughter was 8 mos old, I got pg on my own, oops! I also had 2 miscarriages before my daughter. It was a very stressful time and probably had alot to do with our relationship troubles and unresolved issues. Anyone else go thru IF? Just curious. MS
January 11th, 2007 at 12:02 am
Hey everyone….I know I was the last one to send a note, but it feels better to me to write here than on the ‘word’ document I’ve been keeping for myself throughout this process. If someone responds it makes me feel like I’m not writing into the abyss of myself.
My husband just left(after dinner). We had a truly bad lunch……all I did was complain (nice word) about all that was happening. I let the hurt, helplessness, frustration and anxiety overflow. We had a nice dinner. It wasn’t without its turmoil by any means. But he just called to say how much he appreciated me and my honesty and I feel like I’ve held on for another day.
Here is the best part of it. I told him that as much as I loved him, I loved myself more. WOW! I’ve been told this is a part of life for all my years and never could get there. It may have been a moment in time, but I believed it when I said it. How empowering. It totally took him aback….in a good way. Still don’t know what will happen as feelings and actions change from moment to moment, but this was a life changing moment for me. I hope I can hold onto it!
Given my anxiety attacks and self doubt of the past few days I had to share my momentary triumph. I hope someone out there understands.
I know I am not strong enough yet to make it through the next few days well. But I hope it will be better than in the past. It might be worse……if I could only know.
I went into today feeling OK not knowing the outcome, but just living today. I then gave into self doubt for the majority of the day and am ending up feeling confident that I’ve done the best I can do and that I can expect no more. How much of that is a response to him? I don’t have that answer. I pray that I am doing the right thing for me. I feel it, but question it nonetheless.
January 11th, 2007 at 1:25 am
Sue
Why on earth would he think its all unfathomable, 3 months is not all that long to go cold turkey , so does that mean he would be moving back, I am surprised since he is back and forth that she is putting up with it unless she is needy and maybe gets a different story of why he is going to see you. Have you ever spoke to her at all
Hey dont go skiing alone with just the kids , invite someone along that would be good company for you and make the most of it. Does he just not want to go or is it he pitys her if she has to go. Does that mean its his place and she lives with him which is why she would move out. Why not let her stay and him move back home maybe its the only way he can end it, and it may push her to get uninvolved. Wow I give you credit I dont know if I could charge neutral as good as you are. I guess it was maybe part of my doom but I say it like it is and its who I am and I like who I am. Her being pregnant didnt help one bit poor thing.
I am 45, my ex is 46 and she is 22(18 when he met her and in high school, eeewww) My older children find it disgusting. She is actually closer in age to her own child than she is to him, and only 4 yrs older than our oldest daughter. Well maybe when he becomes old and crippled and needs some viagra and she is hitting her thirty and fortys and rarin to go he will finally be sol, which I believe will happen eventually. for now they are one big happy family. rah rah.
Good Luck this weekend , hopn the best for you
January 11th, 2007 at 9:48 am
To Shennie
Thanks for your advice.This’madness’ on my part has ended and i sincerely tell you and anyone who reads this that it will never happen again.
As a backround only I say the following: I was working from home I live in Dublin I was on the net all day long and strted accessing porn ,this graduated to AFF chat site and into the local chat room.Here i met th OP also married and looking for no strings fun as I was. We became friends exchanged numbers and then eventually met.All through this time we had a text relationship going. I did not fall in love with her although she may have done with me .I allowed myself to be flattered by all the attention and returned it both verbally and by text.
She lives about 100 miles from me and after our initial contact there were 4 other meetings over a period of 3/4 months but we would have met had I not been discovered.
At the time I considered this was all about me and I let my ego be messaged.
I do not love this person and pray to GOD that I will never want to be ,dont mind ever actually be,this selfish again.
I am heartily sorry for the sad sick person I allowed myself to become allowing my sexual urges and ego take over my life.
If and when my girls are prepared to talk to me again,they wont at the moment,I shall tell them this .
I greatly appreciate your advice and thank you from the bottom of my heart.
My wish is to get my family back and I will do whatever is neccessary to do this including keeping my mouth shut for the time being.
I am fully responsible for this heartbrake and have taken full ownership of it.
January 11th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Hi All -
Just read your posts.
MS – it is amazing the same lines these guys use, almost verbatim! The worst part is when they tell you this the first time (after the first discovery of the affair) you beleive their lines because you are so devistated and in a “fog” that you want to think they have come to their senses. And, I’ve only seen my husband cry like 5 times in 18 years, so when he was balling his eyes out, I totally thought he was sincere! (wrong).
I know a couple now that is going through IF and it has not been successful, and it’s very hard for them. And, I am sure like you said, it caused stress in your marriage. Even if everything goes right with pregnancies and children, it’s still the most stressful job in the world. They say affairs happen shortly after having children. My husband told me that he “fell out of love with me” after our son was born. (but when I filed for divorce, now I am the “love of his life” go figure!)I think he cracked from the stress of a 2year old and a newborn. He is selfish and I also think the kids took away from his attention. (grow up). \
Shennie – I hope she dumps him for a younger guy! Karma baby!
Vincent – I wish some of the offending spouses could read your post. Keep supporting her. My husband wrote, “i love my wife” on the bathroom mirror while it was all steamed up and when i got out of the shower, I saw it and cried. He also sent me roses to work. This was right after I found out for the second time. the problem is, he stopped doing these romantic gestures. It is almost worse than if he had not done them at all. You have to keep it up for a LONG time. If you don’t, she will think you don’t love her, you are not truly sorry, and that you are possibly still seeing the OP. This is where I am at. I am still hanging onto hope, but becuase he isn’t going that “extra mile” it makes it much harder for me to forgive, forget, and “move on”. Just a tip.
Sue – I think that was fabulous, you said that, “I love me more” He needs to hear that and ponder that one. that he is not the center of the universe. Ugh, I am so tired of the selfishness on all of their parts! I agree, if it was us doing this, would they be patient? Probably not! It goes back to the character flaw thing.
Take care everyone. It’s a new year and we have to think positive, no matter how all our stories play out. We are GREAT people and we only live once!!
January 11th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Hey Vincent
I really can appreciate that you have chose to learn something from all of this inside of like most staying in a confused limbo state. Dont beat yourself up too much everyone does make mistakes, and for you at least you realized it and are owning it seldom do , I think many women on this blog wish their husbands felt what you do and so that they could work on it. Write your kids a letter if they wont talk to you and lay your feelings on the line they deserve it and you do owe it to them to let it out. What about your wife how is she with all of this, are you still at the home.
The grass isnt greener on the other side but it is through adversity like this that we can take what we have learned and improve the relationships that we have with the ones we have it with. so make that your life mission. Please keep all of us posted i am sure it would help people in the opposite position to know what you are doing from your perspective and how its all going and you can also keep reminding yourself by listening to all of us of the pain this infidelity can cause.
Obviously some things were wrong in your relationship to seek this out but the important thing now is to learn how to fix it the right way. All relationships have probs and it is important to deal with them and not make new ones. I wish you luck , keep us posted
January 11th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Hi all… MS, I went through IVF with ICSI. On the first try we got twins. We were exremely blessed, but they were a lot of work. Were premature & only weighed 4.5 pounds each. After years of hoping for a baby, we had twins. I became very disappointed over the years though b/c my husband wasn’t much of a family man. Would much rather work than be with us. Anyway, when they went off to kindergarten, I was lonely so we went through IVF again and got 1 baby. He seemed much more into her than he had the twins (1 is less demanding than 2) but also seemed to become closer to the twins. He appeared to become more of a family man. His affair surprised me at that time b/c he seemed so much more focused. Maybe it was a front. Anyway, he withdrew from me & the kids & said that he never wanted kids. Funny, I don’t remember forcing him to give me shots in the butt every night. Regardless, after almost losing the kids, now he really has developed a close bond with them. I know that there is a big part of him that wishes for his freedom. But I do believe that one of the biggest reasons he stayed is b/c he loves the kids & doesn’t want anyone else raising them. So, in one sense, the affair actually strengthened his bond with his kids and for that I am extremely grateful. Guess we’ll see what it does to us. Time will tell.
Liz, you were asking about a keylogger. I got one about 9 months ago. It’s not software b/c we have security on our computers that prevents spyware. I got a “bullet” that you attach between your computer & keyboard. It’s from http://www.exploreanywhere.com. But like anything, if it’s discovered, it’s not good. My husband discovered it and was really mad. But too bad. He admitted that he use to have an e-mail account that he used with her. Unfortunately, I was never able to get the info as he didn’t do it at home. Anyway, if the back of your computer is concealed then I’d highly recommend this. It takes no technology or understanding of computers to use. Best of luck!
January 11th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
June, my husband has said in the past that he was leading a double life. One at work with this person that ended at 5p and the nights and weekends with us. He also said he was living to work and now he wanted to work to live. He was trying to explain that his job took over his life. He worked non stop even at home, especially when he was chatting with her on his computer and I didn’t know. Then the text message boom happened and it was easy to say it was business. I was clueless. Such a fool. Anyway, he never said he didn’t want kids, he was always willing to do whatever we needed with the IVF but once the kids were here, 16 mos apart, then he got to overwhelmed and wasn’t getting enough attention from me I guess so he turned to the OP. I thought I was doing my part by not burdening him with kid stuff and really I just alienated him. Anyway, he is much more involved now.
Vincent, if I knew that my husband was as sincere and honest at you are I wouldn’t feel this sick feeling all the time. Although he says he is NEVER going to stray again, only time will tell with his actions as the key. It’s too early to tell at this point. Too many lies and deceptions to trust him fully yet. Keep trying with your wife and kids. Through your actions they will know you mean what you say. Best of luck.
January 11th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
I am still in the home but in the west wing…..haha
I wrote to my eldest on saturday but that was a bit soon I think.Today my wife got angry with me and I think that was huge but who am i to say?
I should say that I am an alcoholic in recovery and have great support from the fellowship
January 11th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Shennie,
She is NEEDY. But I am not at all sure she is ‘putting up with it’ at this point. We’ll see. She doesn’t seem to be around since the Monday thing. I am not going skiing (unless something changes by Saturday) as my daughter is sick and I think I’m coming down with it too.
My body seems to have had enough of the stress.
I have thought about having her stay in the house, but I am simply sick to death of paying for her on top of everything else. Not to mention it provides a built in reason for him to see her again as I’m sure the moving out would again cause an upheaval. It is also too close in proximity for my comfort level. That is why I forced the move out of the apartment we own. I just didn’t really believe she would move in with him at that point….silly me.
He came today to take care of our daughter as I had to work most of the day. While he was here he cleaned and did quite a bit of picking up. My daughter said he asked what he could do to help me and that he was crying a lot. I don’t have a clue as to what that means. He was still here when I stopped in for lunch and was very affectionate and positive. He called tonight and wants to see the kids and me tomorrow night after counseling (as well as lunch before). I think he had a break down as he was hanging up, but not sure. I wish I knew what he was thinking. I’m tired of asking right now as his head seems to run and circles and just creates more pain and stress for me.
I realized today that having a taste, the past month, of what our family and relationship could be like is what is causing me so much pain now. It was never terrible, so this has all been particularly hard to get my head around. However, as I’ve gotten more comfortable with ‘me’ and the kids have gotten more stable I was so much better prepared for any outcome. I feel like I’ve gone backwards in some ways as the pain is back in full force around the possiblity of losing this forever.
I can’t imagine what he will do as he truly seems to understand the deadline. He has not yet tried to move it although I did hint that a definate plan for the immediate future would work. Either he hopes to put this to rest one way or another this weekend, or he can not imagine how he will deal at all. Too much time thinking about what he is thinking. I’m losing myself…….FOCUS!!! Wow is this hard.
January 12th, 2007 at 1:49 am
Sue
Hey I think your ok, just keep your focus. if he thinks that its tough now, divorce and all that goes with it will put him into greater turmoil also not just you. You are right he does have to make a decison and prolonging it will only worsen the whole thing.
Hope you and your daughter are feeling better soon. Sounds like he is coming around. I bought this book on fenshui and it says if you put a family pic of a happy family occasion in the southwest side of your home will increase and regain feelings of intimacy as well as placing yellow flowers in a clay container,its suppose to also help resist tempataion of affairs. or it also says to help avoid an affair you can also increase the energy of the north west by placing a metal clock in this direction of your home. Its really interesting stuff. Has rememdies for all kinds of stuff so I am trying a few, dont know if they work but Im gonna try some. It cant hurt anyway.
I was also reading in a womans world that you should never have heart to heart chats or arguments first thing in the morning because this is the highest point of testosterone levels at that time of day and he will be more likely to be uncompromising and say not to favors etc. But because of this high level of testosterone that means his libido is peaked and the most passionate time for him, just a though At night the level is lowest and oxytocin known as the bonding hormone is highest which is when he will be more relaxed affectionate and happy. Just a thought Has stuff for afternoon and early evening too if anyone is interested. Funny how we dont think of those kind of things much but are probably true. Keep writing
January 12th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Sue – I know right where you are at with the stress issue and your health taking it’s toll. I am surprised my immune system still works at this point! I think your husband is “scrambling” big time, as he should be. I also have been doing way too much trying to figure out what my husband is thinking and i am going crazy once again. When he is really nice and affectionate, I think he’s trying to hide something (the surface stroke thing) and when he’s being distant and short tempered, I think the guilt is coming out. I don’t know, I have to put a deadline on this. I can’t go the entire year feeling this uneasy, and wondering about whether or not he’s lying and still seeing her. I decided to give it to the exact date of “discovery” which would be May 16th. If I still feel this awful, I need to make a decision of whether to stay or divorce. But, do I tell him this? Or just watch his actions and just make my decision based on those? I have been checking the cell phone bill on-line and so far it’s been clean. (but he used pay phones so it really doesn’t matter, if he wants to call her, he can!). Also, he told me the other night that the OP couldn’t stand checking up on her husband and following him, etc. (he used to cheat on her and they divorced). What really gets me is that if she used to be in our shoes, how can she do this to someone else knowing exactly what pain she would be inflicting on me. I could never do this to anyone knowing how horrible it is. I just don’t get people sometimes…
January 12th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Hi all –
Can you please give me some input to this. My husband swears up and down he has not talked to the OP (again, I don’t trust his word after all I’ve been lied to about)…..just in your opionons, I had called the OP back in September after we decided to reconcile for the 2nd time and talked to her on the phone. I told her what I knew, details about the summer, places they had been, and I told her that my husband came clean and told me this. She said a few choice words to me and we hung up mutually. Here is my question: he claims she never called him and vise versa. Don’t you find it ODD that she would just let that go??? Wouldn’t she be bitter that he told me all the details and you would think she would call him and yell at him, or at least say, “why did you tell your wife, etc?”….just my hunch and it keeps me guessing constantly. What do you think?
January 12th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
To Sandy.
Not such a good day today my wife rang the OP and hurled abuse at her.She then rang me(the OP) and hurled abuse at me for not beeing in touch and told me ??thank GOD’ that she wanted nothing to do with me but asked me to ask my wife not to contact her.
A bit more anger about which I hope is good but a lot of tension.Still no communication with my older kids??I pray a lot and hope to hang in while the hurt heals a little.
All I want is what is best for my wife and kids and pray that they decide that includes me.
A lot of praying I know but i need strength from somew
January 12th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Liz, I wonder the same thing about the OP, especially since this all happened a last week again and I called her and told her off. Then he emailed her the “it’s over, I love my wife and family, I’m not leaving email” again. SO SICK OF IT! Now silence, except for some extremely friendly like emails to do with work. She showed hardly any coldness at all which makes me suspicious, in itself. I asked my husband about this and he said he would have thought that she would have retaliated. He was expecting it even. We discussed this at length and then he said I am tired of worrying about her, it’s over and if she is trying to play some kind of mind game then let her play alone. She also, went to a friend of my husband’s at work, a woman, whom I know, and she, the OP is friends with now. Well, this friend emails my husband a how are you, are you ok, I’m worried about you message. blah blah blah……. So now we know that the OP went to this friend and spilled her guts and must have said that my husband is soooooo distraught and I’m such a raving lunatic(because of my phone call) that would she please make sure he’s ok. Well, my husband just deleted the message and isn’t going to respond. He said that he can’t control who the OP confides in, but he doesn’t have to participate. So in answer to your question, we will never really know how the OP will react. I would have retaliated, I know me. I would think anyone would, but I am not her and as long as I am not left without a way to check on whether they are talking, I guess I’ll have to swallow it. Hard to do, but no other choice except to call the OP again and I don’t want to start that. Take Care and hang in there. MS
January 13th, 2007 at 12:48 am
OK everyone…..I hope you are OK with my updates as it is very helpful to me. We had a fantastic counseling session….oh-so-hard, but oh-so-good. Followed by a not so good night.
I have ‘painted myself out of the corner’…I think that comes from liz..maybe ms….sorry for not having the patience to go back and read. In any case, it had an impact. I wasn’t sure how I would follow through but felt strong about my feelings.
Our counselor was able to have him explain his words more clearly….which were that he understands in his head what he wants and needs to do, but his dillemma (how do you spell that?) is in his feelings of wanting to work it out without ever going back to the OP. I know this may seem obvious in so many ways, but for him it is commendably real. I don’t know if I can do it, or if he can, but, again, the honesty and clarification is so helpful.
So what we came to is that he needs to tell me what he can give me in order for me to continue to hope for the marriage. This was a new idea to him as he was so focused on my deadline of the 15th (Monday). It was incredible to watch his reaction to all of this. Relief, tears and thanks (in me saying there may be another way). It does not mean that he will give me what I need, but it does ‘paint’ us out of the corner that I made. He said that he is very clear that it does not mean a long term unknown and that he was afraid to even bring up any alternative as it was not fair to me. I do appreciate that he listened to me on that one.
Now for the bad part. My minimum was that there would be no more ‘trips’ with the OP. He planned one for tomorrow based on my plans to go skiing with the kids and thinking it was ‘it’ in one direction or another. He thought that either way this visit with her friends would help him in the process and it would not matter to me……….what a battle this is! He does not understand the part about how hurtful it is. This leads into the part about the future and what that means in this kind of thinking. We discussed it ad nauseum…..despite us both being very sick……..bad timing.
In the end he is still going away knowing that I may say it’s over..although we both know the intensity of the feelings between us makes that almost impossible. Clearly I am not doing my job in this realm. However, he could not be more clear in his understanding. I am sad that he could not see how I feel without me spelling it out, which I thought I had done, but now see that I was cryptic in this regard. But reading all the literature I now know that none of us can assume that the other understands or knows what we are thinking.
I hope this note makes sense to you all. In the end he left on a ‘good note’ of loving each other and working towards the long term. He has promised a plan for Monday. Can he do it? I told him it has to be in writing, as crazy as that sounds…no misconceptions. Meanwhile I have work appointments that I have to keep. This is totally nuts. I think of those who are teachers and nurses…how do you go to work every day and deal???
I am pretty sure I will be writing over the weekend in a total turmoil, but am so happy that our counselor (I don’t think I followed this thought through in this note) put me back on the track of paying attention to ME. If I keep that I know I will be OK and make the right decisions. I know every piece of literature says not to go to counseling if the OP is still in the picture, and our counselor has felt the same way. But this has been really good for both of us no matter what and I think has expanded our counselor’s way of thinking. It does not mean it will work, but that we have gained a lot from doing it. I am so much stronger and he is so much more clear. Is that enough……not yet.
Hang in there with me…….please! I am so in the thick of it. We all are. I love reading your notes. It helps. OK….may be ‘love’ is a little strongf…….who wants to be on a blog like this? Let’s get our lives back…whith or whithout them. We can do it! (Keep telling me this!)
January 13th, 2007 at 3:07 am
Vincent
Just keep praying and let them take the time they need. There is alot of grieving going on. Do not bring it up to you wife as it may only instigate another call to her and it may feel like you are being defensive of the op which will only fuel her more. She needed to get this off her chest and tell the Op what she thinks and has a right to do this so just let it be. She wont keep calling unless she has a reason. It all may take time and you need to give it for them.
January 13th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Sue
Yes you can do it, and you will do it either way.
I am disappointed for you that he is going away with the OP,
I personally would have a hard time taking him serious when he still wants to keep her involved. When I look at Vincents true remorse for what he done that is exactly what it should be when found out. And I hope for vincent that he has the fortitude to carry it through because that is the key and tell all. I dont know that your husband can think clearly about where he is going when he is off with her, I guess you can only hope they dont get along for whatever reason. Take this time over the weekend to surround yourself with good things, flowers that are colorful, buy a plant, life whether human or nature provides an aura that cannot come another way. Invite a friend over for coffee if your feeling better, keep your head full of other things so your mind doesnt wander back toward thinkin of him and what he is doing.
I can see you are very strong and are fighting to maintain your strength and even with your downfall moments you will bounce back with a greater sense of strength again. Make it about you a little more and more and in that there will be some sense of fulfillment. The more you can be a bright shining star the more valuable you will become to yourself and to him.
You can do it
January 13th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Sue,
How is it going today? I am thinking about you and I agree with Shennie that how can he think clearly when he is with the OP? UGH. I love that you said “let’s get our lives back” because I couldn’t agree more with that statement right now. I feel like I am in constant “limbo” and it’s driving me crazy. Please let us know how it goes and I am thinking about you!!
Vincent – how are things today with your wife?
January 13th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Hi!
I am so sick today the rest of it doesn’t matter so much. I’ve had to work all day so that has kept me busy. My kids have been great. They’ve helped with the dishes and laundry and know that this weekend is not going the way they would have hoped (they do not know where he is, only that they are home and he told them he would not see them until Monday).
I feel a bit melancholy. Part of me says that if he is with her, who cares where they are? I guess I’m just going to enjoy a movie with my kids tonight, work tomorrow and try to ‘look forward’ to what he will say on Monday. He best not show up without a plan to present to me. We’ll see.
I told him last night I would text him hourly so that he could not forget about me tonight. He laughed and said that would be great. He said ‘really’…….so I just sent the first text. Let’s see if he thinks it’s good or gets ticked off. He called earlier and sounds very concerned about how I am taking this…..well he should be.
So beat…..need to go lie down. Thanks for all the good thoughts and comments. I am amazed I am sitting here writing this and not feeling like I’ve fallen off the edge of the earth. I may not be strong right now, but I’m not a puddle either. Thanks to all……
January 13th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
Hi all,
Things today are much as was.As i write my wife is out with her friend and all my kids are out aswell.
I suppose I ask myself why was I so weak that I had to go get my thrills away from home when I had all I ever needed right here.
I am trying my best to limit the pain as a blow by blow exposy of my carry on can only deepen the wound.
I accept her need to know and of course anger and indeed that any healing will take a long time.Am I correct in assuming that a belief that the lesson has been well learned is neccessary for any reconciliation? I suppose a part of me is thinking that if I was going to be thrown out it would have happened by now ….I was a selfish bastard but I will tell you people I am keeping bad company at this particular moment..I am on my own with my thoughts.
What is best for them will be best for me I just hope it includes me ….cooked dinner for the kids and they ate it so life is not as bad as it could be…once again thank you for your insights and your support .
January 13th, 2007 at 7:31 pm
Sorry I am anonomous
January 13th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
I’ve got a question….how do I access the chat room? I’ve tried a few times to set up a new account and it does nothing.
Also, I did not text again tonight. Suddenly it seems so juvenile and only makes me think about where he is. I think the one I sent was good….”thinking of you….”. You can read a whole lot into that and it will serve the purpose for now.
Watched “The Break Up” tonight. Why are these somewhat serious movies billed as comedies??? It is a definate ‘b’ movie but made me think about the fact that he may come around and I may actually walk away. I don’t want to do that right now, but I get closer daily. We’ll see what he has to give me!
Vincent…..I have not responded to you directly. I want to say that you need to keep your focus and good things will come from it. Being truly remorseful and expressing that is the first step. At some point expressing all the good will be even more important. If you have not yet seen a counselor to work through your own feelings I would suggest it. Or maybe you have good friends to talk things through with. Either way, the point is that we are all…no matter what side of the fence we sit on…our own worse enemies if we dwell in our own thoughts and feelings too much without a real sounding board to talk them through. It is the same ‘slippery slope’ that begins this mess, but it is another mess that is created. Good luck with it. Keep talking.
January 14th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I have been reading your posts with interest. At last someone can understand how I am feeling. My husband has been having an affair for the past 2 and a half years but I still can’t let go of him. He moved out for a few months at the start of last year but asked if he could come home. I took him back only to find out just before Christmas that he never stopped seeing the OP. He totaly messed up our Christmas and has hurt his whole family. We have a 15 year old daughter who overheard a phone conversation between him and the OP and kept it a secret from me for 5 months. He and the OP just shrug off how devistating this has been for a child. Sometimes I feel it would be better for her if I just moved on. He is having a terrible time facing what he has done and the mess he has made. I called the OP and told her to get her nose out of our family and give us a chance to work through this. Our daughter is very angry with him and they must have had a bit of a confrontation yesterday afternoon and he has walked out. Got a text from him saying he just cracked it and will be back one day soon. This has been going on for so long, he says he wants to stay and work this out but I just don’t think I can live like this any more. I am 53 and want my life back. I can see that he is struggling and feel that if he would just start taking a long look at himself we could work this out. I feel like I am standing at the waters edge, I know the water is cold but once I take the plunge and jump in it will be okay. I guess in my heart that I just don’t want to make the wrong decision but when is enough enough.
January 14th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
Thatis a long time. What does your daughter say to you. And out of curiousity how old is the OP. and how did she deal with you when you asked her that. In my experience the Op has no respect for you or your family because their relationship is based on pity for him because of you or your lack of a relationship that led him to this. Does your daughter want you to stay. I am not sure what you mean when you said he cracked it. Maybe just wait and ssee what he says when he returns and how long he is gone and if he is with the OP or on his own. Just take care of yourself for now
January 14th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
Great day today ????..wife and I made love am I a blessed man ? most certainly??.
January 14th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Vincent
I am happy for you , that is a good sign for sure but dont forget
it doesnt mean she has let go of her anger completely. she has been hurt in the worst way possible and is not over just yet. But it is definately a good sign. She will likely ask alot of questions and even though you should be honest I would suggest avoiding detail, some things stay in heads forever no matter what. The less you can get away with saying the better because what you dont know dont hurt. That does not mean lie in any way do not do that, I just think sometimes if you get into it too much it can be really hard for some people to overcome. I can only say for myself that even though I asked many questions and wanted to know the answers when I finally heard them I was not left feeling very good and sometimes wished he hadnt said them or just made it less important than it came out if that makes any sense. It seems your rel may be on the road to recovery keep us all posted
January 14th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Thanks for your reply Shennie. My daughter doesn’t care what way we go as long as we are moving forward. She has told her dad that he needs to get help and put in 100%. The OP is 46 and I agree with what you say… she has no respect for anyone including herself. She was in a bad relationship and used my husband to get out of it.Her kids have told her that they won’t have anything to do with her if they end up together and my daughter hates her. Good solid grounding for a relationship!!! Cracked is a term we use when you get angry with some one.
I have asked him to make an appointment to see someone to sort himself out… If he can’t do this I guess it is an indication that he can’t committ 100%. I have been looking at what I need out of this relationship and I am not so sure that he can give it to me. I will wait and see what happens when he comes home…. he always runs away when things get hard.
January 14th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Jessi,
So sorry to hear. I’m at my wits end at 4months of knowing and 7 months of affair…..and thinking how could it be that long? Don’t know how I’ll do much longer. I agree with Shennie..what does your daughter say? A very large part of me wanting to move on is not only what this is doing me, but the kids. They seem to have the same sentiments as I. They, of course, want it to work out, but are feeling like the limbo is beginning to get worse again.
My husband said tonight in response to my statement “I don’t know how I am going to do this”,he said, “I don’t know how I’m going to do it either, but we can work it out together.” Such hopeful words from someone who is was sneaking a call into his wife! Good God…..
I’m hanging on for his plan proposal tomorrow night. But my hopes are not very high. His twisted thinking probably means he feels he is giving me something wonderful and in essence it will be more of the same. I know I am being pessimistic, but the roller coaster is running again.
Remember the articles about being ‘the rock’? I keep wondering how in the world to do that. Or maybe I’m not supposed to be so much so when he isn’t living here and is still with her. Maybe that is when I am supposed to be throwing the towel in the ring.
Too much going on in my head to write it all, but I am getting more and more able to say ‘no’ and ‘yes’ depending on MY needs.
Jessi….talk with your daughter. And then talk with your husband. Keep the lines of communication wide open and do what is right for you.
Vincent…..that seems good, but remember that there is soooo much more to it.
January 14th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
I know all about the roller coaster Sue. When I read about the ones that had the affair I wonder what it was that made them realize what they were doing and what made them want to really make things work out. My husband says he wants to stay but I feel like the one that is doing everything to make it better. I am convinced that he has a huge problem … mid life crisis or som such thing because this affair has turned the sweet, caring guy that I married into an absolute mess. His thinking just doesn’t make sense for someone as intelligent as he is.
We found some letters written by our daughter and the words she wrote about him, I would be devistated if she said those things about me. She just wants to get off the Merry-go-round as it isn’t any fun. She appears to be happier when he is not around, if he wants to keep his daughter he has a lot of work to do with her as well. Not sure if he is capable of looking past himself.
January 15th, 2007 at 7:17 am
Hope all goes well for you Sue and you don’t hve to stay on the roller coaster as long as I have. it hasn’t been all bad but when I found out that he was still seeing the OP when he came back I was angry… this could have been all over and I would have been settled in my new life by now if he hadn’t been so selfish. Still hasn’t returned home, my daughter and I have had a very peaceful day without all the stress… maybe we would be better off without him here.
Vincent, I hope it works out for you if only my husband could face what he has done and help me heal.
January 15th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Hi All,
Well, yesterday was not so good. My daughter overheard us arguing and my husband and I got in a huge fight, then of course, the affair resurfaced (like I’d hoped it wouldn’t since I was doing so good). We said a lot out of pure anger and even discussed divorce (me, not him – he doesn’t want one). Anyway, in the afternoon we talked and I cried and told him I didn’t feel he was supporting me enough EMOTIONALLY. He honestly thinks that just by being there and not seeing the OP (so he says) that should be “showing me” his commitment and remorse, etc. I told him that he just doesn’t understand that it takes constant reassurance after all the betrayal and I can’t just trust him. He says he understands that, and doesn’t expect me to just trust but he says I have to pick a point when I am going to decide to “begin to trust again”. Does this sound familar? Anyway, my daughter was crying (due to the arguing) and I told her that mom and dad were having problems and we were trying to get along and work on them. I also was upfront with her and told her that sometimes mom and dads that argue get divorced and they get along better when they don’t live together. Of course, this was the hardest thing I’ve ever had to say to my child and her response was “just get along mom”. So the GUILT is eating me up. She doesn’t understand any of this, and she doesn’t know anything about her dad’s affair. Then she told me her biggest concern is that if we get a divorce, and we marry other people, that the other person will be “evil” and mean to me. Again, that devistated me (because I can’t stand the OP). A huge part of me thinks I am staying in the marriage so that my kids don’t have to deal with the OP in their life, or anyone else for that matter. I am so protective of my kids. My husband said he totally gets vibes from me that I am in turmoil with my decision to stay and that he thinks we need to do it for US and not for the kids. I agree with him. A part of me does still love him and I do want this to work. I just feel like I am a total basketcase after all he put us through and now I feel like it’s all on me to pick up the pieces of something that I didn’t create. Sorry to vent all of this but I just feel like you all can relate to this chaos.
Sue – is it tonight that he’s coming over or calling you? I pray this goes well for you and the kids.
Vincent – Yes, that is a big step because intimacy is very important, although, don’t be surprised if she cries, or gets upset. I did. I also think it stirs up emotions that she isn’t prepared for. But, it does show she still loves you or she wouldn’t allow her self to be that vulnerable with you. Please keep supporting her and complimenting her.
Shennie – I got WAY too many details also. NOT GOOD. I totally agree with you. At the time, I totally thought I wanted every single aspect, and I made him tell me everything. And, the way that I am wired is I don’t forget details. I think it’s almost like you are d’d if you do, d’d if you don’t. If you don’t ask, you fill in the blanks yourself, which is dangerous, and then when you do ask, you get fueled all over again. My husand says it’s so hard becuase he thinks I never get the “answer I want”.
January 15th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Jessi
About your daughter, she prob wont bother with the Op much as she said , but I must tell you this is great news for the Op. To him she will use it to bad mouth you and play on his sympathies, but in reality she will not have to deal with his kid in the end which inside she will like whether she admits it or not. Whether or not she is willing to accept the OP it is important that you encourage her to allow herself to demand what she needs of her father even if it means requesting the Op not be present. My x has tried forcing his new on the kids, (the young ones) and recently they are now resenting it because they want the time with thier Dad not their Dad and his new family(they have a 3yr.old) When they get together the 3 yr old is demanding and takes the attention from them, he was told to make their time with them but he cant seem to do that when he only sees them twice a month for a day. Its about them not the kids. The OP would love nothing more deep down than to erase his family but they wont tell him that.
If he runs when things are tough chances are he wont deal with it.
Sue
how did his weekend away with her go. Is she moving out. Im not sure what his statement means I dont know how I am going to do this, What keep both ya he probably doesnt. You have given him enough time to sort himself out. But it is no wonder her cant when she is still involved . I am praying for you that he makes the right choice for your family, Keep us posted
January 15th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
I think today will be a turning point of sorts. I just realized that yesterday was 20 years for us. So sad. I woke up this morning totally calm and feel clear. He must have a plan that includes the definitive end to the affair or it is no plan at all.
This morning I seemed to just KNOW that the kids and I have a nice routine and we enjoy each other. We all want him to be part of that, but if he can not be, he really can not be. The so very hard part is knowing that he wants to be. He does have two counseling sessions for this week. Maybe if he has a plan he can get the support he needs to follow through.
This weekend for him seemed to be just more turmoil of missing me and being anxious that the end is near. No movement on the OPs side of things. This is why I am so clear. He sent an email to me at 3:40AM as he could not sleep. I don’t think I could upset the apple cart any more than I am.
Liz, I’m sorry I can’t remember…are you in couples therapy? From your note it sounds like you would both feel better in changing how you argue……..not trying to keep more in, but finding a way you feel more comfortable letting it out. You seem to be trying so hard but feel so guilty when this happens. I know the feeling well. I also don’t have the added burden of keeping the ‘secret’. That must really take its toll on you. Take care of you!!! (This, coming from me…….well, take it for what’s its worth!)
January 15th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Sue,
we were in couple’s therapy right after I found out the first time and we were in it all summer long but he LIED and was still seeing the OP so I filed again. We went to one joint session about a week ago and that was it. I honestly think he needs his own individual therapy because he has a lot of other issues besides the affair as well. (controlling, type A, verbal abuse…need I say more?) I am in therapy for myself and I do think it helps tremendously. It sort of puts it in perspective that you cannot control your spouse and you need to be the best person you can be regardless of what the outcome is. (again, easier said than done!)
He sent you an e-mail at 3:40 with the OP there sleeping? I forget, have you ever me the OP?
Has anyone had any confrontation issues by running into the OP? I just wondered becuase I live in such a small town, that I am bound to see the OP at some point, and I want to mentally prepare myself. I don’t want an all out screaming match, I want to stay composed and come out looking like the “better person”. I am just afraid actually seeing them will trigger huge emotions? Any tips or stories to help with this if it happens?
January 15th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Liz……..I agree. The individual stuff is so important. I need to do that soon myself. Everyone is getting it but me.
Oh…he e-mails and calls me with her there…..of course she doesn’t know it. He soooo needs the counseling. We had a long talk this afternoon. Not the big stuff as this was only on the phone. He is a train wreck and a half. I told him if he tells me he can not decide where he wants to be then the decision is made. If he can not decide how to make the decision happen…..we have something to work with. We’ll see.
As far as a ‘run in’ goes. I did meet with the OP early on and go back and forth about doing so again. It went as well as could be expected at the time. I have a friend that did have a run in with her. She bartends and my husband and the OP went in one night. My friend and the OP got into some short of a yelling match over me. My husband walked out before it started as he could tell it was going to be ugly. My friend lost her job over it. I feel badly, but I have to say I don’t think I would have done that. If the OP is immature…..that’s her problem. I am no longer 12 years old and have no intention of acting so (although I do at times when I least expect it). I guess if I ran into her unexpectedly my concern would be that I would pass out on the spot. I tend to become ultra-calm in those types of situations and say something really clear and to the core of the problem. It usually either works or comes back to bite me huge. I’m not so good at keeping my mouth shut.
As a last note…..I’m seriously thinking that if I need to end our marriage I should go meet with them where they are living. Talk about triggering huge emotions. That should do the trick for me. Of course, I don’t want to make myself more miserable either, so I’m saving that idea in my back pocket hoping to never need it.
January 15th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Sue,
I have known the OP but not personally so to say. The worst part, is I never liked her as a person, so when I found out it was her, I almost DIED. I couldn’t believe she was the person he picked to have an affair with! Not to say that ANY person would ge “good”, it’s just that I never liked her to begin with, so when your husband tells you stuff like he thinks he’s falling in love with her, etc. it’s so hard to swallow! (as you can relate!). The bar where he hung out at with her, the bartenders and waitstaff were totally against her and that she was seeing a “married man”. They almost lost their jobs also for getting involved. Doesn’t it amaze you how many people their inconsiderate act actually effects? Tons!
As for you, YES, you need to give him a total ultimatum. I gave my husband the choice, me or her. Period. He “picked me” but….again, do I trust he isn’t still talking or seeing her on the side? I am not sure. If I find out, I am DONE. I know it will tear me up if it comes to that, but I have to be prepared to do so. I gave him 2 big chances and I am not giving him 3. Then it will be 4, then 5, etc…you get the picture.
Please keep me posted!!!! I am praying for you and your family.
January 15th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
What a viscious cycle this all is, its so sad. You know its funny because they keep you hanging on, they use your love for them and they know they can do it. Even when mine disappeared, even 2 yrs after I can remember memories would still draw me backward even though he was not coming back or even that I wouldnt have him by then. Love is a strange thing becasue even knowing all that and that I hadnt even seen him for 2 yrs plus I was still being drawn back to thinking about it even so can you imaging, the power of love is so great that it can control your emotions even if they are not good for you and you dont have to even want them. Its like a catch 22 damned if you do and damned if you dont.
As for seeing the Op if it were me and there have been occasions where she is in the vicinity, of course she totally avioded coming near me, rightfully so. but I decided that she wasnt worth the time of day. I would not give her the power over me, I refused to even look her way becasue well she just wasnt worth my time. I juust held my head high even though it was the hardest thing I had to do and acted like she didnt even exist like she wasnt right there because I wanted her to know that I could rise above her in some way. That she didnt have the power over me she thought. Other people have stepped up for me too and humiliated them both in public many times so I guess I didnt have to, it just makes you out to be the bitter ex. If she thinks you want him she will even more. If you tell her she can have him then she might wonder how valuable he was in the first place. its the old you know people wanting what they cant have thing. Well she has him now and she can keep him, in fact they deserve each other. and hopefully one day will come back to bite them both.
January 16th, 2007 at 12:37 am
Shennie…..I hurt for you. The pain in your words is palatable. I hope it ends soon. You have come so far. Keep thinking of you and it will come further. I really think you have so much to deal with (I don’t know that I could ever deal with what you do) that the pain and suffering has lasted longer. You simply do not have the time to heal yourself. As your children get older you will hopefully be able to take more time to be quiet within and deal with the pain. How do you do it??? I am so impressed and in awe of you.
I feel badly talking about me now, but need to do it. Tonight was the in between that I did not expect….yet thought it was a possibily…just could not imagine how. He worked hard at being honest and insightful and did a really great job at both. We talked about the fact that he is not begging and how much that matters. I would have thrown him out the door with that. His issues are real and what I guessed at, but never ones that he has been able to express or I was willing to broach. What that means is that he told her that he is not willing to get divorced….ok not what I wanted in the “I love my wife” department, but a lot further than what I had expected.
He also had serious insight into his own issues which I have know about for some time, but never in a million years thought he could come to it. I’m sure she helped him do it (but I don’t know that) and that kills me, but if it is a means to an end I’ll take it. He has gained the time of the counseling appointments this week from me and knows that this is not a long term process in the ending of the affair. We talked about this so specifically that I feel good about the process. Whatever the outcome I feel confident that I have been oh-so-clear and that he totally understands me. He has also been clear….on and off…depending upon what is going on for him…..and I totally understand that. What it all means in the ends is still an untold story.
Love is hard. It is on so many levels. What I hang my hat on for the moment is that we both agree that this hard earned love is worth something. What may totally mess it up is that the easy love of the OP is so inviting. The funny thing is he says that with this time it is less inviting. But it is still causing him so much turmoil. That is when I question the physicality of the process and the honesty. OH……….the simply sucks. Sorry, but it does.
I love my husband in a real sense….for who he really is and can be. But I truly do love myself more. Finding that line will be the bitch of this process.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Sue, I hope that your husband can be stong enough to do what is in his heart and from what you have written it’s coming home to his wife and family. Not sure that going to see them where they live is a good idea. What do you plan to accomplish with facing them them together now, maybe it’s too soon for that. Suppose your husband says he is not coming home now and you follow thru with divorce plans, what will you accomplish except making yourself sick and putting him on the defensive.
We are going to a new marriage counselor today for the first time. Our other MC was a little to far away and not convient to get to. So we chose someone close to home. A little apprehensive about re-telling the story but have so much hope that he can help us resolve so many issues.
We had a really good weekend. We went to on a little trip together overnight and the kids went to my parents. We had a really great time. I refuse to let my thoughts of them together ruin my life anymore. I was wallowing in self-pity on Sat and had a “talk” with myself about what I was doing to myself with my obsessing. I HATE the thought of them together, I HATE the thought of what he said to her and promised her and planned with her, but those plans and promises to her went no where so I have to hope they were only words and nothing more. We traveled alot before kids and still went away for little weekend trips after, but this trip was like it was before we had kids and all the bad stuff started. We had fun, laughed, shared and it felt so good. Maybe letting go is the key, letting go of my obssessive thoughts and anger. If I just knew for sure he wouldn’t start talking to her again……….I know nothing in life is for sure, but for him to say to me, it’s over now, move on, well it’s not enough. It’s like putting a bandaid on a huge gaping wound. Not enough to heal it and the wound just keeps oozing and festering. We need a MAJOR bandage and time. Hopefully we will get there soon.
I asked my husband what he was expecting from therapy this time around and he said to get us to move forward. I want this too, yet I think that until we resolve the issues that led to the affair and have led him back to her on and off, moving forward is still in the future for us. How do you move forward with so much unresolved anger, hurt, frustration, looming. Maybe it’s me that has the unresolved issues, but I truely think he has issues of his own. Things he needs to deal with in order to stop this “addiction” cycle and understand what it is that draws him to her and away from me. I think about living the next 40 years with these thoughts in my head and I know I won’t be able to do that. I need to deal with the pain and trust him again. The trust issue will have to be resolved in time, I know, but it’s not like I haven’t tried. I just keep getting burned. I love my husband and I know he loves me, if love were enough, we’d be fine. The fact is, loving someone, doesn’t mean that you’ll end up togther. I will always love my husband and even if we divorced I would always consider him my husband. He is IT for me. Other people may come along and I may feel love for someone else some day, but never the way I feel about him. I don’t mean to sound fatalistic, like I don’t think it’s going to work out, because I think we have a great chance at making this work. It’s just so hard…….and painful to work through all this stuff. Some days I am not sure I am strong enough to do it. Take care to all of you today, I’ll let you know how things progress. MS
January 16th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Sue
Dont feel bad for me, There will always be times when you are drawn back to the pain, move on or not its only human. When I look back upon my life it is not really him that i miss it is my dreams that developed over the 26 yrs we were together. its the dreams that are the hardest to let go of, the expectation of what the future was going to be in growing old together with so many children at hand. Diverting myself to dreams of the opposite has been very hard because the children are here with me and can easily prevent those things from happening. I look at it this way God has truly given me a second chance in life and I accept and welcome that but sometimes making it real is another story. If I didnt have all these children moving on could be so easy as it was for him. starting over with a clean slate. But face it I have 6 yes 6 kids to carry into that new dream and I feel there are very few men that could accept that regardless of what else I have to offer. Its a big bite for anyone to chew even me and there already mine. Dont worry about me Im ok its just getting through it and educating myself on my choices and how to reach them is my goal. Deciding what new dreams to have is the biggest feat because of circumstances they can be hard to reach. With children its hard to make your priorities about yourself so I just have to bide my time until the time is right, patience is my virtue and that can be difficult. It does help me to help all of you and I hope in some small way I have done or can do that. I think sometimes until your new dreams are in place its hard to not feel past pain. Dont worry Im ok being here with all of you helps me to see things I couldnt see when I was in the middle of it as most of you are now. And its allows me a chance to reflect and confirm where I am and it is the right thing. I hope some os this makes sense.
January 16th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Long shot= I am trying to convince my wife that this issue was totally my fault and down only to my selfish behaviour for a short period of time and not symtamatic of problems in our marriage which was and will be wonderful.
Any body any links that might help thanks..
January 16th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
To Marlene,
As for reconciling how I allowed this mess to happen-pure self centeredness??.I really never thought true the implications of being caught.
I suppose I never knew how much my wife needed me or me her.As for my personal development i am just trying to understand how I could have been so selfish so as not to even consider the implications of my actions.
For me the other woman was a ??thrill thing’a living on the edge ??never needed just wanted.
A betrayal of a physical nature has cuased a deep wound I never really thought about and it is the fact that I never considered others that has me searching my soul to find out how I could have been so selfish.
Today has been a not too unexpected step backwards as my wife confided in her eldest sister who has been abroad and now feels that she has been too easy on me.
The girls are still ignoring me but I have great hope.
January 16th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
It is amazing to me how so many people can be experiencing the same problems in life and yet each of us feel so alone.
Sue-I think Shennie is right, don’t go and confront them. You will end up looking desperate and crazy. Take the high road and concentrate on yourself. It is so hard to stop obsessing about him and what they are doing. I am going to an al-anon meeting in 15 minutes. My therapist keeps insisting and after going to a couple, they seem to help. Is that something you can do?
My husband has been seeing the op for two years now and moved out 2 1/2 months ago at my prodding. After him coming and going I brought up ideas Friday for him to think about while he was with her. He says he can’t see his future w/o me, so told him he should start thinking about what IT will be like. Asked him has he thought about splitting up the assets? What address is he staying at (a friends) so I can serve papers? The roller coaster is over and he is not to come and go anymore like he has in the past. He will see the kids two weekends a month and will take them, not just spend time here at our house. Sunday he came over to take our daughter to an appointment and said he wanted to move back in. The stipulations are, he is not staying overnight until he has set up a marriage counselor appointment and has stopped seeing her. He needs help doing that. Well, he left saying he would call yesterday: he did not. And he would call today after seeing his therapist who is to help him break it off. Still no word from him. They feel so bad, guilty and ashamed for what they are doing. So change it and start doing what is right to improve how they feel! I am so done with this. I told him that and I would not call him. I think this is an obsession for us because we want what used to be and cannot control or get it back by ourselves.
One of you had a bad Saturday, been there so many times. Too bad we all can’t be together instead of being alone. I hate that. It just makes matters worse. Our kids need us yet I can’t get it together to be there for them. Time to move on my brain says yet my heart isn’t quite there. I was really mad Friday night when I talked (calmly) about this. Giving him scenarios in a way where he has to make decisions without appearing as ultimatums. I didn’t expect him to say he wanted to move back. Well, if he wanted to where the hell is he?
Thanks for letting me vent. I don’t always write, but I read your blogs and want you to know how much it means to me sharig our heartache. Everyone says think of yourself, do for yourself. After 20 years that is so foreign. I pray for all of us to get through this and feel better. The sun is out today in Chicago and it snowed slightly last night. It is bright and that is how our futures will be. Bless you all.
January 17th, 2007 at 12:34 am
OK….another day….another night. I never wanted to go over to ‘their’ house to confront them. It was a thought to put me into the ‘never again’ stage if I felt I needed it. But you are all right. The pain I have avoided on that front would be pain I would have a very hard time getting over. So why do that to myself? I should decide ‘for me’ and go with it.
I had an interesting time tonight. I don’t know how else to phrase it. My son needed a new picture printer hooked up to the computer to complete his school project (despite our combined words to not expect it…he is 12 and did). He called his dad twice to come and do it. On the third call he said he was on his way. Never talked to me and I did not believe it.
He came and stayed. I was totally out of sorts and could not figure out why. This is a good thing…..right? But I somehow felt off center and did not know what to expect. this all while I’m thinking about my conversation this morning with my 11 year old daughter who told she is not so sure she ever wants dad to move back in! (She sees her dad more now than ever and we have a routine she is comfortable with. She also said that she believes the worst is over….unless he marries the OP. This is too much for an 11 year old!)
Well, that (my being out of sorts) led to a conversation after the kids were in bed that he was not comfortable with. Thought we would just ‘hang out’ and not have the deep conversations. Although I must say that I agree with that because there is only so much of this all of us can handle at one time, I was still out of sorts.
He was put off, but hung in there with me to help me figure out what I was feeling. In the end it was simple. I was happy to have him here, but could not ask if he would stay after the kids went to bed as I could not handle another disappointment. I am so ready to call it quits. I share this because I want to write it down, but also because I think it is such a good example of something so minor in some ways that has become so big because of what I am (we all are)going through. Working this stuff out is a total bummer when we aren’t even at the point of really having a marriage.
I am not so optimistic right now, but not bummed out either. That scares me a bit. I am sooo hoping he comes up with something big this week because otherwise I believe I will put the end to it. And then he might step up the process and I won’t be as receptive……another vortex.
Not trying to project. Just what I am feeling and thinking. The day to day thing is so real.
Shennie…..feeling badly about what you are experiencing is probably an extension of what I am feeling. I have a hard time functioning and am so in awe of what you do…..really. I am strong on some days and not so much on others. I think this is probably what we all feel. Unless you are in the beginning stages…in which case you feel strong only when you are so angry you can’t see straight.
Jean……write if you can. I really ‘enjoyed’ (again….who enjoys this?) reading your note. It helps. You sound strong and not just venting. Although I think we all probably sensor our words to some degree. As always……focus on you. Those words of advice continually bring me back to the ground and make me feel better. It just is not always that easy to do. Hence this blog.
I hope you all are sleeping! Because I need to and still am having a hard time with that. My son wants to do his science project on sleep because he says he can use me as a subject as I regularly go on 5-6 hours. UGH! That hurts! (Not that he knows it!)
January 17th, 2007 at 12:51 am
Hey Jean
Good for you for holding the power of your own, I know its contradictory to what your heart says but in the end you do have to be true to yourself. You are right if thats what he wants then where is he, words words words they are full of them and actions speak not words, when i told my ex that he said he would fight with both barrels loaded and the proof would be in the pudding with tears rolling down his face and I didnt see him for two years or more. Ya the proof was in the pudding all right , just more words,they test us to see how vulnerable to them we are, if they still have control can they manipulate us with our love for them . I am proud of you that you are holding your ground and being true to yourself Jean. While it is hard to stay it is harder to walk away for sure. and let the ball be in their court not ours. then and only then can we really become what we truly are inside, Your right It would be great if we could all get together and have a huge yak/cry session then get totally blitz lol. One day well have to convince Dr. Bob to just get us all together for a conference and he can write yet another book, called moving on how and when lol Take care Jean and the best of luck to you.
January 17th, 2007 at 9:31 am
Sue
I feel deeply for you as you are in a very confusing stage right now and limbo is tough because you dont knoow if your coming or going. Even when you get past it all it never really leaves your side whether you forgive the person or not there will always be times where your emotions run off on you whether you want them to or not. I do believe that it is a normal human reaction. The big thing for me right now is the future and growing into the best person I can be. I have a big heart for people in general I love to help others and I have realized that I do like who I am as a person . The more confident I become with that side of myself the more things improve. I talked with my mom yesterday about this blog and how it really has brought alot of light to myself. Even though I am past the stages you are all in you dont see some things when you are in those stages but its much easier to make sense of things when you overview others going through them. somehow the pieces all start fitting together differently and through that insight you can continually make new realizations that you could not do when you are in the middle of the storm. I feel so deeply for you and your situation and I know how long it takes to work through things, mostly feelings. Let me ask you something because its something I have realized more and more. Are you more afraid of attempting life on your own or of staying. Is it him you will miss the most or your dream of what you thought your future would be. (dont ask yourself the second question if you are in any emotional state) I dont miss him anymore but I do still miss my dreams and the hardest part of missing those dreams is that not only cant we replace them really , but we really cant start over due to our ages and that we already have the children so its all about making new dreams and can take forever to decide what you truly want them to be, becasue for a woman , the dream of family and growing old together I believe is stronger for a woman than it is for a man, no offense guys. Letting it go is hard and finding a new one is even harder.
As for your daughter saying she didnt know if she wanted him to move back, one of mine was 12 at the time and in fact she said dont you dare take him back and she never waivered from that feeling. I really was shocked and had to take a step back from it to absorb what she really meant, it wasnt just her anger for it all as much as the morals I brought herup with. Iknow that when she grows up no one will walk on her for sure and that she will choose very wisely because of what she has been exposed to. Sit your daughter down and ask her why it is she says this for real, it will also bring you both closer together and will give you more strength as well. Thinkin of you Sue
January 17th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Shennie, funny, when I was going through infertility, I posted on a message board on ivillage and chatted frequently with girls who were also going through IF. We became pretty good online friends after years of posting, chatting, email and phone conversations. Some of us decided to meet in Chicago for a girls weekend and we had a great time! So when my husband found out I was posting on this blog, (I told him) he laughed and said are you going to go meet these guys too and talk about how horrible your husbands are?! We laughed, but I told him that actually, most of the gals on here amazingly don’t say that their husbands are bad or horrible etc. Most of the time they speak lovingly about them and show genuine concern, hope and faith in them. Made me think what great people we must be to have such horrible things done to us and still be able to speak in such loving ways about the person who did this to us. I wonder if this is some character flaw in us, or is this a trait that people in shock and devastation project to hide our pain. You’re right, we’d make a great book!
Sue, I am so sorry that your husband hasn’t made the move home. We went to our first counseling session yesterday with a new counselor and he told my husband that it takes, on average, 6mos to 2yrs to get over the emotional attachment part of the affair and that’s with no contact with the OP!!!!!! If there is continued contact then it can take even longer and may not end ever, in which the marriage will then fail. I was totally depressed, as my husband works with her and we can’t really afford for him to quit his job without finding something comparable. And with the workforce the way it is, we may have to wait a long time for him to find as good of a job as he has, unless the OP quits! Anyway, the counselor had some good things to say and gave us a few marriage “tests” to take and we have another appt for next Thurs. He wants to see us weekly and then separately also. He wants to focus on our communication skills as a couple and talk about the affair in sessions and then move on from there. I think he sees $$$$ in his future from how screwed up we are!!! ha ha.
My husband travels for work and this was when he would be able to talk freely with the OP so when he left today for Iowa, I am in a panic. Not so much that he will talk to her now, because I don’t think he will, but more that him leaving brings back so much pain of the memories of before. I need to get past this. We had a fight last night about this. At the end he said ” What do you want from me?” I said I want what you can’t give me, I want for you to guarantee that you won’t start up with her again and that you won’t WANT to. He said ok I guarantee it. I don’t want to start anything with her again. I wan’t this to be over as much as you do. I want to move forward. We made up this morning before he left, but I feel so deflated. Hopeless in some ways. We all hope that our situations are going to be the ones that work out. That our husbands will be the men that we thought we married and do the right thing and build happiness again with us. Are we all fooling ourselves? Can we really move on after all this hurt? 30 yrs from now, are we going to be blogging about flashbacks and obsessive thoughts? I can’t do that. I hope this counselor can help us move on together. He also said to me “So you have major trust issues then?” I said absolutely and although I think my husband has now been upfront and I can see pretty much everything, I still have my doubts. When that will end, one can only know. Well, that’s my story for another day, I will try to chat tonight and would love to chat with you all if you can. Take good care, MS
January 17th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Hi All!
Gosh, reading your posts has helped me SO MUCH. We haven’t had any arguements since Sunday morning. He’s been very nice, helpful and I honeslty think he’s trying very hard to make ammends. The problem I have is I think the reality of what he did has been setting in daily and now that the anger is subsiding, I feel sooo depressed. I actually have a Dr. appoinment tomorrow and I want to talk about going on an anti-depressant. My therapist doesn’t think I need one. She thinks these feelings are very NORMAL from what I’ve been through. I also have a family history of depression and so I sorta lean that way regardless. Has anyone taken one since discovering the affair? I hate taking medication of any kind but I am so worried that I can’t just snap out of this.
He tells me he loves me, and I don’t believe it. Or, maybe I don’t WANT to believe it becuase then I let myself be vulnerable again, only to get hurt again. I know I’ve built a huge wall around my heart since he did this to me. I feel like he doesn’t realize the lies are what have damaged me the most.
My therapist is getting me the book “Not Just Friends”. I can’t remember who read it, but I decided to read it. Any other reading suggestions that can help?
Shennie – I think I am totally at the point also that do I really love HIM, or do I love the DREAM of growing old with a family intact? I think it’s the second and that worries me. I know I would be OK without him but something won’t let me give up. The constant feeling of uncertainty and confusion about my own feelings is making me physically ill. I just feel like there are no tears left sometimes.
Sorry I sound so morbid today, I hope tomorrow is better. It has to be. I have to be strong. You all keep me going and give me hope.
January 17th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Things are difficult here at the moment particularly with my 18 year old daughter.She is a fragile young woman and has taken a severe beating over this as it was her who discovered my infidelity.
There has been little communication and she is missing school and is very down.For myself I have done a lot of work this past week or so and re-alise that my own self worth was a major issue here and how I never re-alised someone could need me that much.I read here often of ??how could do this’if you really loved and cared for the people in your life?
I have no simple answer but know that it was to do with me and my issues and not theirs.
Healing will take a long time this I know but I am glad I have been discovered as I can now not only stop being so selfish but try to exorcise the reasons I allowed this self will to determine my actions.
I do believe that these moments are life defining and I know I will emerge a better person it just kills me to see the harm I have done to others.
It is possible to be sorry and to ensure that you never do this again ??I must go forward from here but would give anything to turn back the clock.
January 17th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
MS – I just read your post and I feel the same way about not wanting to be kicking myself 30 years from now asking myself the question “why did I stay with this guy?” Are we kidding ourselves? They all seem to say the same things to “make it u” to us. The same comments. I asked my husband the other day, “why won’t you ever cheat on me again?” and his response, “because I won’t”. What I wanted to hear was something like “Because I love YOU and would never dream of hurting you again, etc.”…….see, this is why I don’t think I can do this. A part of him seems very genuine and remorseful, but can these men (or women) ever truly change???? Also, at one point I asked him if he was in love with 2 people and he said, “Is that possible?” I wanted a “No, of course not” Now, he denys loving her and says he loved BEING with her. What the heck is that? It’s a man trying to backtrack in my opinion.
I would love to meet all of you someday. I hope we don’t lose contact!
January 17th, 2007 at 8:02 pm
Finally got to the computer to check the postings. Thanks for your words of encouragement. I slipped though. After my husband came over Sunday and said he wanted to move back and I gave boundaries, I still have not heard from him. A dear friend suggested I had shut him down by giving stipulations and I should once again call him to open the door. I have been such a doormat for so long I thought the boundaries were good and showing some backbone finally. Other friends cheered. What did I do? I called him when I swore I wouldn’t. I hate myself for slipping once again. How can he take me seriously if I try to detach and then become needy? Of course he had his phone turned off so I had to leave a message. So much for trying to be tough. Did I say I hate myself? I have done everything I possibly can and now I am second guessing myself. Bottom line, if he truly wants to come back then he will regardless of how guilty he feels. He will find a way to break it off with her. (he said he needed help and didn’t know how) I hate this obsessing. Some days are better than others and today I am very weak.
I agree someimes we may be focusing on the disapointment of losing our future and being fearful. This could be a big portion of our misery. However, I do love my husband and want him to come back. I think the love is diminishing and that is good because the hearache lessens. Interesting how so many people describe their husbands as a mess, and remorseful and crying, etc. Sounds like my husband. They think they are so unique. They should be reading these blogs so they can see how many people share their situation. Vincent, I like your writing, it gives me hope that my husband is returning. Actions speak louder than words though and he still hasn’t called after saying he would and wanted to return. Disappointment, hope, disapointment, hope. What a cycle. I am so sick of it. Hope this weekend is better than last. God Bless you all. Jean
January 17th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
MS Your right that we are not here to say horrible things about our spouses but we are here to understand why were here and to find understanding, not that I have never had some choice words for him because I have and he earned it quite frankly. Yes the $$$$ signs Im sure are part of it, I could never afford it and I have found that through time you work through things in our own ways, read read that can help alot to educate ourselves on human behavior in general. I am starting a book I read a long time ago about kids called Dare to Discipline, I think that even though it relates to kids its a clear message of how we define the things that go on, like you Jean how you said you broke down and called and how you thought maybe you had too many strong borders. but you are only falling back and questioning yourself because it didnt have the immediate outcome you wished for but it doesnt mean you didnt do the right thing. Like telling the kid he cant have any candy so he wails and wails so you are tired of listening and you break down and say ok just a little piece and of course the wailing stops, you have solved the immediate problem but at the same time you have caused a bigger problem for next time this happens, so dont be down on yourself Jean because you didnt get the results you wanted now doesnt mean you wont eventually and if for some reason you dont it does not necessarily mean it was you who did something wrong, you could have done something totally different than you did and still had the same results, there are no easy answers really you just have to be true to yourself either way to be happy in the end with or without them.
Liz as much as we hate to cry, crying does help it allows us to vent and let it out and can sometimes be the best medicing, I know it doesnt seem like it at the time and can also be very physically draining as well but if you watch your patterns after you have a so called bad bout you gain a renewed strength, its people that hold it in and dont allow it to come out that end up in worse shape in my opinion.
Something that I think we all have to realize is that first and foremost it will NEVER leave your relationship even if you reconcile, it will always remain, you have to decide now if your strong enough to live with it and move past it because if you cant then dont waste the next however many years torturing yourself and your family. There is no easy wasy stay or go, I know a couple that early in their relationship before they had kids that she cheated on him it was a very short and only sexual affair but he chose to stay with her even though she thought he should move on he didnt want to, They stayed together for another twenty years and this always hung over their relationship no matter what, they had kids and a good life but he always held it against her and she lived with it because she thought she deserved it for what she did so put up with having it held over her, in the end he ended up cheating on her and the marraige eventually broke up, so it was unfortunate that they didnt break up years earlier , so if your spouse is truly sorry then dont hold it over them forever because it will doom your relationship. everyone does make mistakes but without a real second chance there really was no hope. You absolutely cannot recover with it over your heads. So if you are giving the person a second chance then give it and take your chances if it happens again end it immediately. Either way there is always going to be some kind of hurt and pain.
I want to tell you all that if you really listen to Vincent ironically and not his remorse or sadness but the real truth behind his words then you will realize the realities. When he mentioned all the things he hears like if you really loved me then how could you do this to me, understand that your partner has not thought of the fact of who will be hurt and was not done purposefully , it is the selfishness that vincent spoke of that doesnt allow a person to see all the side effects of what they are doing in the moment but a time does come when it all comes out and I do believe Vincent is truly sorry as he stopped all contact right away and is absolutely acknowledging the damage to others, I have seen that in very few others that are spoke of here sadly and for that I dont feel that many of these relationships will work in the end but all have to go through the motions to arrive at a place where they can and will move on its the point of acceptance that the dream is done and that is the hardest point to come to because even when it is over the dream for some stupid reason still remains and thats a real catch 22.
To Vincent, read and research for your daughter, one of mine was older also and school was the first thing to go down and only gets worse, the sooner your wife and you resolve and find a way to work through this together the sooner you can both help her because the only way you can is to take the stand together or you daughter will not likely recover and will affect many of her relationships to come that is a very crucial age and you must be vulnerable to her and show her you are human and that you are truly sorry and do whatever she needs you to do to make it right, ask her and dont stop til you get an answer, own your part in it and never blame anyone else and she will learn to own her own actions also in her own future.I do commend you for acknowledging yourself here and stopping it all when found, if you are strong enough to do that I believe in time your marraige will survive but it doesnt mean it wont be easy.
Jean I must repeat again do not blame yourself for being strong and standing up for what you believe, it is not wrong and another action really could have the same results, you know sometimes I think they take those opportunities to use as a scape goat to put that blame back to control you and make you feel like if you did this or that it would be different, but would it really, it isnt about what you did or didnt do, its about what they are doing or not doing dont ever forget that , if he had been doing what he should have to begin with then you wouldnt have done what you did and you cant beat yourself up about it. so please dont put this back on yourself you dont deserve to do this to yourself. just keep telling yourself that .
January 18th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Quick check in with eveyone. I think my husband finally found a counselor today. Yesterday was a total bummer on that front……he is begging for help in how to move forward and this guy insisted that he talk about his relationship with his mother while growing up and how that impacts his need to please her now…..give me a break! I have a degree and am trained in this stuff and can tell you that I really believe there is a time and place for everything. At these crisis points in our lives action matters. Psychotherapy can come later if needed.
The woman today sounds like she was much more interactive and helpful. He came here right afterwards and has not looked that good in months…really. He was so relieved. It then came out that he told her last night that the feelings are just not there. I’m writing this because I can not really believe it…..when is the other shoe going to drop? But he seems much more grounded and confident. Maybe he really is beginning to move to another stage like Marlene had described.
As always, time will tell. Hopefully I will be able to provide the time. We are definately on the day to day plan right now.
Headed out for a bit with some friends, hoping to laugh. Laughter is good!
January 18th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Sue, that’s a huge step for him and you! Hopefully with a few more sessions with this counselor he will see that he needs to just make a clean break from her. Have a great time tonight. Laughter is the best medicine! Take Care MS
January 18th, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Just got back and had to write. These friends are the best. I haven’t laughed like this in months. Literally! And the subject matter was not very funny…..just an ability to laugh at our own foibles and take life at face value. Bright women with a unified goal to live for themselves and better the world they live in as best they can in the meantime.
Again……..WOW!!
So I got home and my husband was thrilled I had such a good time. He still looks better than he has in ages. This counselor was soooo good for him. He is going ‘home’ to further the discussion of loss of feelings. I hope we can keep on this track as we both felt so good tonight. Mostly about ourselves and then about each other. And this is after he had to deal with the nightmare of homework and bed with our kids. Which is good because if we do not work out he has that all to himself on a few nights a week. And he knows it.
On that note he brought to light the fact that we co-parented through the homework and bed routine two nights this week and it worked out well. He is right. We were fighting against each other in the past and are so much more aligned now. I hope we can have the chance to work this through.
I hope I am not driving you readers crazy with my roller coaster. I am honest and it is what it is. I am still committed to not doing this nasty thing for very long…it is now day to day. But today was a REALLY good day. And I’m taking it. Smiling is not a bad thing.
Thinking of you all.
January 19th, 2007 at 10:20 am
Sue – how is going today? Not so good here. I couldn’t do my full week of not fighting about the OP. I went 4 days and then this morning, whamo. I think it had to do with me going to the doctor yesterday. I had a full physical, my blood pressure is up (it hasn’t been normal since May, when I discovered his affair). I told her the whole story, and she talked me into a full blood test for all diseases, etc. To be on the “safe side”. It’s humiliating to think I have to #1 go through this becuase of HIM, and #2, pay for this (my insurance isn’t the best) becuase of HIM and the OP. It’s so humiliating and awful. I know it triggered everything again and opened up a lot of wounds (that are still very fresh!).
So, enough of my sob story. Today is a new day, I have 2 amazing kids and I have to focus on what is GOOD in my life. I feel like if I am depressed, it gives him (and the OP) the power over me. He’s just one person in a world of many and he made the bad choices, not me. I have to think positively.
I also love my friends and they are my rock. We laugh all the time and whenever I go out with them, I feel so much better when I get home! (and he’s jealous of that relationship with them, and he knows they all know what he did, and so I think he feels threatend by them in some way, like they are going to “corrupt” me or talk me into leaving him). I will never give them up for him and he know this. Not that he expects me to, or has ever told me this, it’s just a feeling I get from him. Snide remarks, etc.
Anyway, enough of me, have a great weekend EVERYONE!!
January 19th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Liz/Sue and all
Hang in there, brighter days are ahead. Im sorry Liz for you to have to go through that humiliation,thats another thing that does come with this that is often overlooked or ignored and its good that your are checking it all out to be safe. I hope all is ok.
Keep those friends close, its through times like this that you really find out who your real friends are and sometimes you would be surprised at who is behind you and who is not. It really does help to keep them. Thinking of you all and hoping the best the future can bring,
January 19th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Liz,
I’m feeling good today, but he has to give me something else…will he? I meet him in a half hour for lunch and then counseling. What a downer it will be if he has nothing to give me. I do feel positive.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. When I first found out I ended up with Lyme disease. I discovered the lyme because my body and face broke out in this horrible rash and then the left side of my face went numb. Talk about scary! I went into the dr.’s office and could barely talk through my tears. Luckily my dr. was very supportive and comfortable with me. He checked in a few times after that and that helped. Especially since I had to be on steriods…….talk about crazy. All while my husband was telling me I was creating a crisis to get his attention! Those were dark days.
I’m thinking you have absolutely NOTHING to be humiliated about. Angry, but humiliated? You did nothing wrong. And yes, there are physical responses to this kind of intense stress. That is why it is so important for us to forge through and take care of ourselves. I had a really insightful moment for you and just lost it! Too much going on in my head too…..
Bottom line…..take care of yourself. Focus on how you will help yourself and your children to be happy no matter what happens and NOT on how you husband and the OP continue to affect you life. They will affect it less if you can do the first. And I know you know that I have a hard time following this advice myself, but it does help to be constantly reminded of it as it is real and true.
Well, off to see where the next day, week, year? of my life may be headed……..
January 19th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Shennie, Sue and All – thanks. I am praying all is OK. My doctor was sooo supportive of me. She thought it was wonderful I was being proactive and nobody in the office made me feel humiliated. IT was all self-induced on my part. Now, today, looking back, I am proud of myself for going and taking care of my own health, for ME. Something I would never normally do so maybe I am becoming stronger each day!
Sue – don’t ya wish HE would have had the rash and not you! (ha)Again, the dark days can only make us stronger and come out into the LIGHT!
Shennie – I totally know about finding out who your friends are. Just two quick examples: one of my husband’s good friends, actually confronted me and told me that he totally disagreed with my husband’s actions and even thought he was his friend, he thought he was totally wrong and that he considered me to be a great friend, and that him and his wife would always welcome me in their home and still be my friends, no matter what the outcome. So, I was so pleasantly surprised by this guy becuase I never knew he had that in him! On the flip side, a super-close girlfriend of mine, who’s husband is good friends with my husband, sorta shut me out immediately cause she didn’t want to “rock the boat” between the two guys. That’s when I knew how deep our friendship ran. So, people I thought I could count on let me down and people I never expected to stick up for me, did!! life is funny that way!
January 19th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
Liz
You hit the nail on the head because I had the same experience, a couple who were good friends with us both and her and I good friends apart from them, well they also had six kids too so it was a real hoot when we all got together anyway as soon as it happened she would not even say hello, so I just didnt bother with her, about a year late apparently she was doing the same and left her husband with the kids to be with a guy who was 23yrs old and livin at home with mom and dad, I saw him and he looks like such a kid, it was then I understood why she shut me out, then there were others that I never expected to be were there and are to this day so some good does come out of it too i guess. Im sure all with be fine and you have alot to be proud of
Sue I am sorry you had to go through that how awful and that he thought you were doing it for attention or whatever i am sure made it all worse for you on top of what you were already going through. I hope your lunch and counselling went well and that he had something to give you. Keep us posted
January 19th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Well, after such a good day yesterday it was hard for me to get down to ugly reality today. So counseling was just sort of ‘nice’. We all acknowledged it as such and agreed that he is much better (not good, but better) after his session yesterday. I also got a referral for myself and have an appointment set up for the week after next. No real plan or decisions, just a lot of honest talk and laying things out on the table. In its weird way it is helpful.
I feel sort of numb right now. He came over tonight and stayed longer than any of us (including him) thought. But it was just because and it was good (and I think he is facing ugliness going ‘home’ so it was easy to stay.
He helped me talk through my current anxiety a bit and I do feel less anxious about the weekend. Things with him and the OP are not good and he thinks that is the way to work through an action plan that he will be able to keep in the future. It sounds like he is being somewhat and mostly honest in hopes that she will come to some decisions herself without him having to slam the hammer and feel even more guilty. This part is hard for me as I do not think it is realistic, but would love it to be so. I think (but don’t know) that I am beyond him needing to proclaim his love for me by being mean to her. That season has come and gone. If there is hope for us I think it is in it ending for good and within a time frame that does not lose me entirely. No more and no less. The how is extremely unclear.
I also think that the more comfortable I am with whatever way things go, the harder it is to put so much energy into waiting. It is sooo draining. But when he is ‘on’ with me and the kids it is so rejuvenating. I do want that in my life. The risk continues to be so big.
We’ve talked a lot about what has happened in each stage of this and I think he does understand that I was not ‘making a crisis’ in the beginning. But that I was also asking for more than I would have if the situation was not so dire. This is a growing and learning process. It will serve us well in the end, but the damage that continues to be done is stuff I still wish would stop. I can stop it or he can. And in that lies the difficulty. Our current needs for ourselves are in quite a bit of conflict with what would help us as a couple get through this. Our timing is off and I guess that is more the norm than not.
I had to back up again tonight and focus on me. That helped with the anxiety of the weekend. The fact is that I am busy working most of the weekend and I really do not have much time myself. But I am prone to obsession about what he is doing when not here. This is not helpful for any of us. Balancing the reality of time with the feelings of what is happening is almost impossible.
Our counselor is worried about the damage that is being done to me in the meantime that I am not aware of. I am too. But who could know until I am able to assess it when the cloud clears?
I asked him tonight if there was any realistic way this would end soon. He said ‘absolutely’ but also that he does not know. YUCK!! I have to say it is great and also disconcerting to have a husband who is gaining so much insight…and liking it. It leaves me more unsure about how to proceed while giving more info to assess and determine how I should proceed. Listen to myself. That is what I keep saying. Unfortunately I am getting mixed answers and they all still revolve around the ‘what if?’. I guess that means I am not done yet as I still see enough hope and strength in myself to continue…..for another day.
If any of you have read this far…..I have a bit more. On the friend front. I totally agree on the ‘surprises’. I think I’ve said this before. That part of this is truly good for me. However, I have to see my oldest friend (31 year friendship) on Monday and she is the only one who has run up one side of me and down the other for hanging in there. I don’t quite know how to deal with it. I am so not in a position of defending myself…not do I want to. But I don’t like the prospect of not being honest. I’m thinking we just really can’t have a good friendship right now. She has said very clearly that her passion is because she loves me and has no tolerance for me being treated this way. That is hard to argue with. I know my motives, but how I am being treated is what I struggle with as well. It just is not black and white, but she does not see how those things can fall into the same issue.
All responses are good! Thanks to all. Liz and Shennie, thanks for hanging in there with me.
January 20th, 2007 at 12:37 am
was able to log on to the chat room tonight…it was really good. do it if you can/want to. i think i found the problem i was having with it. your password can not be associated with your log in……..not sure, but it was how i finally got in. dr. bob was working on it, so it may have been something else..just a thought.
January 20th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
Sue
I really feel bad for you that you continue to be in limbo so to speak. It seems he is not ending anything because well he hasnt had to so far. Dont be too hard on your friend she probably does have your best interests at heart but because it is not her heart it feels different, its the giving advice thing and not being able to do it yourself because she may not be able to do that either. I am sad for you because it almost seems that he is married to the OP not you and waiting for her to leave him or something. Its like a game for him and keeps you both in some kind of limbo. My hopes and prayers are with you for whatever is best for you as I am not here to judge you as only you know whats right for you.
January 20th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
Shennie,
I agree. Wish it weren’t so. Except that I don’t think it is a game for any of us. The heat is on. We’ll see. It is up to me to continue to be in this mess this way and I don’t think I have much more in me.
He wants to be out of it too, but is in the swirl about what that means. And, why wouldn’t she be out of it???? Again, we will see.
Thanks for your kind words. I don’t see judgement….only reality of the situation.
January 21st, 2007 at 1:02 am
Sue
Im glad you didnt take offence to anything I said, the last thing I would ever want to do is make anyone here feel worse. I know its hard enough. Hopefully he will figure things out and you can begin to rebuild your life. Just start doing that in whatever way you can in the meantime so you dont think too much if you know what i mean. I;ll be prayin for you
January 21st, 2007 at 2:51 am
Vincent… I read your words with and wonder what is it that made you see what you were doing to your family. All I want now is for my husband to put in the same effort as you seem to be. How do you handle it when your wife doubts your efforts. What can I say to my husband when he thinks he is doing the right thing but I still don’t know if he is being truthul. After all he has been telling me lies and half truths for over 2 years. I would be interested to hear what it is like from your side.
Well he finally returned on Tuesday night with a long explanation of where he was. Only he knows if that is the truth. We went away for a few days with our daughter and enjoyed the time together. When I got home there was a note in the mailbox suggesting that he spent Monday with the OP to which he denied. Got no idea who the note was from but it has thrown me in a spin. The OP and her whole family are all very strange so I guess it was from her or one of the family trying to mess with my head. That is the only explanation that I have because if it was from anyone else there would have been some truth in it and he swears he was not with her. The lies hurt more than the infedelity.
January 21st, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Sue, it’s hard when you tell people about the affair, because friend or no friend, you really never know what their response will be, will they just listen and not judge your husband, will they be angry with you for sticking it out, will they go on the “attack” in your honor etc. Plus, when you and your husband reconcile and you move on and forgive, they may not be able to and there will always be that scar in their relationship. Then when you want to get together with these people you husband will be uncomfortable and add to the stress of things. This is partly why I didn’t tell anyone but my best friend and my husbands parents. I knew my BF would just listen and be supportive. She cares for my husband too and he is the type of guy that people would NEVER believe would do this. His parents and my best friend were SHOCKED to say the least and didn’t really believe it until I told them he confessed. It is totally out of character for him. I told my inlaws partly because I needed them and partly because I knew my husband was going to need them. My MIL and I are very very good friends and talk daily. There was no way to hide it from her. My husband was little put out that I told her, he thought I was just trying to get them on my side. (A comment that came from the OP no doubt) My MIL made it very clear she would never allow that person in her home and told him that he was always welcome, but he would have to come alone. My MIL is not someone to be reckoned with. She can hold a grudge! Anyway, my point I guess was that while getting support from friends and family is great and sometimes the only resource we have, it’s a double edged sword.
In your situation things were different though, because he moved out with her. So everyone was going to know eventually. In my case, he never left so it wasn’t people finding out he moved out, just me having to bring up in conversation, “Oh by the way, my husband cheated on my and blah, blah, blah….” Hang in there Sue, he seems to be moving closer to coming home, although, I still don’t get why he just doesn’t say “Bye, I am going home and I love my wife” plain and simple. So much better for you and him and really the OP too. She would not be able to interpret anything incorrectly. She would have to accept it and she may put up a fuss, but if he is really committed to coming home, then what else would there be left to say. I know this is probably nothing that you haven’t thought yourself, but sometimes it takes someone else saying it to make you think. I wish your counselor would just tell him, if you want this marriage to work and you want the healing to start, you need to end it now!
I enjoyed chatting with you the other night! Hope to do that again soon. MS(tryingtotrust) on the chat.
January 21st, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Wow thats so weird cause my m/l also said she would never let this girl in her home, now they are all one big happy family, i never see or talk to them after 26yrs as a fam and we were also really close , I was the favorite d/l . Its amazing how things can change , hope that doesnt happen for you MS. It didnt happen here til after about a year and I was surprised when it did cause it greatley affected their relationship with their grandchildren.In fact we were told not to come for xmas after the kids had been there every year since birth, they were shocked but it was because him,her and their new baby were coming so they didnt want us there because the kids didnt even know they had a kid yet and this was the beginning of his hiding out for the next couple years. The only thing I think you can really count on in the end is you, becareful putting yourselves out there too much. But every situation is different so we each can only deal with whatever comes our way.
January 21st, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Shennie, my lawyer told me the same thing, basically blood is thicker than water etc. My husband can’t have anymore kids because we took care of that after my son was born. His OP told him that she didn’t want any kids of her own, how convient since she knew he couldn’t have any, but he doesn’t want anymore, I know that. They would never deny my kids coming to their home, but I am sure as time went on they would accept the inevitable. Although my MIL is pretty disgusted. She wonders if she did something in his upbringing to bring on this selfish behavior. We are in therapy and have session this Wed. so I suppose alot of our communication skills are going to be analyzed. Yesterday, he was quiet and brooding. A trait he exhibits when he is in his “mood” about the OP. I asked him about it and he says he was just crabby and tired from his trip the day before. I can only accept what he tells me I suppose. Even though inside I feel like it’s just that he didn’t want to be with us. Each day is a challenge for me to stop reading into his moods and just take them at face value. Very hard to do knowing the history of things now.
Today I asked him about a lunch that he had with her and a client a few months ago, that I found out about after his last encounter with her. I needed to know why he HAD to take her and this client to lunch and when would that be happening again. Which clients might that happen with and how to avoid it. I was met with anger again, didn’t want to talk about it, I keep bringing past stuff up, etc. So right now I am blogging, and he is watching football and playing online poker. Maybe in his email, or somehow communicating with her, who knows. I have resigned myself to the fact that I cannot control his actions and that he has to decide what he wants and take the consequences. We have been round and round so many times it’s getting really old and tiring. We cannot last another round, at least I can’t, so if there is a next time it will be the end for us, this I know.
Do any of you feel with each lie and deception, a little part of your heart gets broken off and you get dull to the pain. Like numbness sets in? Each time I have taken him back, I feel more distant from him rather than closer. I get stronger too. Stronger to just accept it being over. I don’t know if it’s because I have had time to accept the situation and figure out I will be okay alone or if it’s that I am not as interested in him staying anymore. I know I love him, I know I want us to work things out and stay married, I just don’t want to be hurt and made a fool of anymore. Anyway, hope everyone is having a great Sunday. Take care, MS
January 22nd, 2007 at 12:54 am
MS….oh so know what you mean. Obviously my situation is different, but the feelings are the same. I am at a place where I feel more numb. I don’t know what that means. We had a really nice time tonight.
I don’t know how to express tonight in short terms. It has always been my downfall that I can not be brief. I will try. We were honest and hard…..and most importantly, calm. He feels mostly (but not completely) done with the OP. All for real and good reasons. We even talked about the fantasy vs. reality piece. He is not totally clear on that yet, but a good part of the way there. She does not seem done in any way. This bothers me for a variety of reasons, but we talked about that too.
I’m bumping up against the end wall and he knows it. The numbness and self protection has kicked in again in a way that he feels and can acknowledge. So it is still day to day. And this does not even begin to touch what might happen if we have a chance. We both know that.
As far as telling other people go….all I can say is that all you say, MS, is true. But I have had overwhelming support for us to work this out without the judgement. And we have been together socially with our closest friends on New Year’s Eve only to find out that we can do this. We talked about it as a group (as strange as that may sound……not a group counseling thing, just real and forthright) and we are all so OK with how we each feel. The feelings have a range, but there is not the uncomfortable feelings that I would have expected. It is amazing what mature individuals can pull out. I’m not sure I would so ‘big’ if the shoe were on the other foot.
Great Sundays sometimes mean hellish Mondays. We’ll see…….as always.
MS……love the chat room. I had lots of laughs the other night on top of the serious stuff. Thanks for that. It helps.
January 22nd, 2007 at 1:49 am
MS
Well if she cant have any kids then likely will not be able to form that kind of relationship with them anyways. And if you M/L is wondering what she did as a parent or whatever and trying to take a resp for it somehow then she prob wont bail on you, and I do hope for you that doesnt happen. Its weird cause as for my ex in laws I havent seen them in person since last xmas and before that was the same. Even so I still do things for them for who I am in this life, send bday, mother day xmas occasion gift cards etc. its just who I am and just because they have treated me this way I choose to not be like them. Maybe in time when I feel I have made my point about who I am i wont bother with them anymore because well they havent earnedit or are much worth it at this point. But I will at least walk away knowing I did my part. I actually feel sorry for them that they dont have it in them to stick up for their feelings or have their own opinion or values really. it is truly their loss, I do think they know it as there have been a few occasions where comments were made to indicate it. But I think they are doing what he wants them to do and not what makes them happy inside and well thats their choice.It sounds like yours its ok and I hope it stays that way but just protect yourself somehow for you anyway.
Each lie makes you more numb and more resilient to believing anything they have to say. thats the prob with lies when you begin to not beiieve much of anything they say, and even if you just listen everything becomes very skeptical. That makes it really hard to move on with them. For me it got to the point where everything was a lie and it wasnt just to me but soon became everyone including her, she was willing to not look at it in her desperation for him. and I think it will come back to haunt her because he was able to get away with it and will likely treat her that way come the future. Whoever said it earlier about the lying being worse than the infidelity was right because you really dont have a clue what you are dealing with and if its a lie then what your doing also becomes a lie, so sad really. and your not the fool he is
January 22nd, 2007 at 4:00 am
MS your last paragraph could have been written by me so I know exactly how you feel. I had a great session with my therapist today. My challenge from her is to take a back step on trying to fix things and create a life for myself that will work with him or without him. I have to stop snooping through his things to look for proof, as she said, he always slips up and I find out anyway. She has given me a chart to fill out every day to state what sort of day I have had. I have to stop putting my life on hold waiting for him to make up his mind. Have had a good day today and achieved so much. Like you, this is his last chance and if he goes he goes and I will be okay. In fact I know I will be much better than him even if he is with the OP. He hasn’t worked through any of his issues where as I have taken the opportunity to discover a lot about myself. My guess is while I am facing this challenge of creating a life for myself I will see him in a different light and see that he really hasn’t got anything to offer me. Just stay positive and look for fun things to do and be happy around him, even if you are not just act happy.
It has been very helpful for me to have people around that know how I feel and can read their stories, it also frees me up to enjoy my friends as friends and not have to talk all this stuff with them.
January 22nd, 2007 at 9:52 am
MS – everything you wrote, is EXACTLY how I feel in your last paragraph. When I took my husband back for the first time and we decided to “work it out”, I look back now, and I was in total shock mode still. I was scrambling, like I was in “overdrive”. I was editing my words, I was making dinners, we planned “dates” and picnics, we played cards with friends, I dressed “sexier”…all these things to win him back (that’s how I totally view it now). I was doing everything possible to figre out where “I” went wrong (instead of totally looking at it as HIS mistake, and HIS character flaw!). I was still angry, hurt, disgusted, etc. but I was also trying my hardest to work on the marriage at the same time. I didn’t want to lose my family most of all.
OK, now we speed up a few months and I discover, all the while I am doing this, he’s still calling her, telling her he loves her, and cheating on me. They took a trip together, went to parties together, dates, etc. So, what did I do, I filed for divorce once again. Then, the weakness spot in me, saw his tears, heard his sob story about how his “head was messed up” (seems to be such a common response of a cheater!), and how reality was setting in for him and he wanted his wife and family and not the OP. So, I was once again, relieved of not getting a divorce BUT, this time, I don’t do all the above in the first paragraph of my blog! Why? Cause I am NUMB for one, and 2, if he’s STILL cheating, I am not going to get screwed over again emotionally, and 3 I am putting it “all on his actions”. Right now, I view it as he has gotten a second chance (most people would have been GONE) And, guess what, yes, he’s physically home, I have no proof of him cheating on me, but I have lost so much respect for him and I honestly, have become much stronger and I like myself better than I like him. So, he has a different wife this time around, and I think the changes in me intimidate him! He sees my conficence, my weight loss, I still go out with friends, and I also think now he’s worried I might cheat on him! (I would never, but he eludes to this probably out of guilt).
So, I am right where you are at. He has totally chipped away at me little by little, lie by lie. I am the same way, I am not interested in our marriage at all like I was 6 months ago. I see his selfish nature for reality now. I never thought he would risk me and the kids and risk our family for the OP, but he did. And it was a conscience choice. And his comments that used to hold water with me about “I didn’t know where my head was at” or, “I wanted something for ME”, etc. my sympathy level is gone. I might agree with his statements, but I don’t feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for me, the kids, and all the people that he hurt along the way. I don’t feel sorry for the OP becuase she was just as selfish as him. She didn’t care that 2 little kids lives would be effected, and she didn’t care that the guy she was sleeping with was married at all.
Can you tell I am NUMB? ha!!!
And Shennie and everyone else – my MIL and I were extremely close for almost 20 years. I was the favorite DIL. When the news came out about my husband and the OP, his whole family took his side. Nobody ever called me to see how the kids and I were doing. My MIL is dependent on my husband emotionally and I think she figured she couldn’t get on his bad side, she might need him one day to take care of her…(my opinion). Yes, it hurts but I learned I can only count on ME and that I don’t need them in my life, if that’s how they treat me. Beleive me, I am over it.
Last thing – my lawyer told me “guilt dies fast and turns to anger when there is an affair”. I totally agree. Anger is a defense mecanism for what they did.
January 23rd, 2007 at 6:27 am
Things progressing slowly ,kids not really talking to me but my wife wants to put this behind us (how lucky am i?)the OP has contacted me in response to my wife’s texts but I have told her I never want to see her again.She is a woman scorned but I have made my decision I never really knew how much my wife loved and needed me nor how much I love and need her.I hope the kids will come around as they witness my wife and I getting on with life.
January 23rd, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Hey all, I guess this is not really my place, but since no one was in the chat room at the time to moderate, I feel I should at least inform people that it really isn’t nice to make another person feel alienated or abused as a result of the choices they make. I met a woman on there today who cheated on her husband in a cyberaffair and was blasted by more than one person. She,like Vincent above,is trying to make amends and is truely sorry for what pain she caused. She and her husband are in therapy and are trying to work things out. Aren’t we supposed to be here to support eachother, not judge? I can’t imagine that it was any of you wonderful people that have been blogging here, but if you see someone ganging up on another, please try to intervene. We have all had enough pain to last a lifetime don’t ya think?
I just had to say something on her behalf. I know we all have some bitterness toward our cheating spouses and their OP, but lets turn the bitterness into something productive, like using our own experiences to help others in similar situations. If the people who attacked her would have listened to what she had to say they might have learned some things about their own spouses and how they felt. I certainly learned a few things. Hope you all are doing well. Take care, MS
January 23rd, 2007 at 9:30 pm
MS….I whole heartedly agree with you note. Wasn’t there, but would say the same thing if I read you correctly.
I’m finding that my husband is doing better now that he is beginning to deal with his shame and guilt. I wonder, from what you’ve said if that is a good part of the problem with your h. Just a shot.
I’m in holding mode again, but much better today. I got some sleep last night and things look better. We’ll see, but it certainly helps to take care of me. What a hard thing to do!
Hope others are having better days as well.
January 24th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Hi all -
I am doing better today, yesterday I got a call from the doctor, and all health tests were NEGATIVE!!! (whew) I can breathe now……I’ve been exercising daily and trying to eat better and get more sleep. Basically I’ve just been trying to get my health back to where it was prior to last May (discovery!). I’ve been reading the book “Not Just Friends” and wow is it very insightful! It really makes you feel like your thoughts and your spouses are so NORMAL! It says it is very common for the betrayed spouse to feel very ambivilant (MS and Sue, if I reacall, I think we can relate to this) where you become sorta numb to your spouses actions, etc. I am in that stage completely. Is this marriage worth saving? Can I get over the affair? Is he still cheating behind my back? And…if he ISN’T, does it matter now after all the damage he’s caused? UGH.
It also shed some light on the WAY that the affair ended. It makes a big difference if the cheater was busted, or if they confessed themselves. In both instances with my situation, I caught my husband. The book says if the affair doesn’t die a natural death or if the spouse doesn’t end it on their own terms, chances are, they will continue contact. That is exactly what I am nervous about. Anyone have a situation where your spouse willingly confessed???
January 24th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Sue, my husband is trying to deal with the shame and guilt too. He has guilt for what he did to the OP also, so that’s a big issue right now. She didn’t do anything to him, so it’s been hard for him to “dislike” her and be indifferent to her. The last few days he has been quiet and closed off. Of course I immediately think he’s seeing her again. He works from home now since the last incident and yesterday he had to go to the office for a meeting. I was, needless to say, unnerved. Everything was fine when he got home, but in the past I have looked back on these incident and see it as a cycle for him. He gets anxious and brooding not talking to her, quiet at home or distant even, then gives in to his anxiety and talks to her, and is relieved and out of guilt I think, becomes more loving to me. So when he came home yesterday and was so loving toward me after a few days of distance, I thought, RED FLAG!!! Then this morning he woke me up to tell me he was feeling anxious about her and wrote her an email about a business thing that he had told me he was going to write the night before. He said it made him feel better to get it done. The thing is, that the email was about a business subject but the original conversation with her about it was in a personal conversattion they had. I read it, he asked me to, and I told him, while I understood why he felt he needed to write it and I know other business emails were in our future to her, I thought this one was not a good move for him, because first it wasn’t necessary, he could have just let it go. It wasn’t a crucial thing he needed to discuss and there was emotion behind it for him because it made him “feel” better.
Anyway, we are going to our counselor today so maybe we can discuss it more there. It was a big step for us, however, that number one he told me about it and number two, let me read it and discuss his feelings with me. I am however, uneasy that he was having these thoughts about her and anxiety. I wonder how long it will take him to get her out of his head? I am thinking a long, long time. That make me sad. He did say that this time was different for him, because the feelings he was having weren’t like before wher he HAD to see her and talk to her. Just had her on his mind for some reason. We are on the 3rd week of the addiction cycle since his last encounter with her so I am on high alert! This is when he typically can’t stop the urge to reach out to her. And then we have the email he sent. Just another form of reaching out you think? I think so. He also told me that next week he has a two day sales meeting at work and has to be in a room with her and others all day and was not looking forward to it. This was also a first for him to share his feelings about seeing her in a close setting at work, but as you know I can’t predict or control his actions so those two days will be hell for me. I told him to sit near the door, so if was feeling anxious if a break came he could be the first out the door to get out of the situation. Didn’t know what else to say. I so want to be supportive, but do you know how weird it is that I am having to help my HUSBAND get over his feeling for another woman? Just boggles my mind. I am so not prepared for this. Glad to hear you are hanging in there. Take care, MS
January 24th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Ms I totally agree with you about what happened in the chat room
esp since the person is trying to learn and grow from it like Vincent. Everyone does make mistakes but when someone acknowledges it they should be supported not chastised, I havent been in any of the chat rooms how did you find it. It must be really hard for you to be subjected to his constant involvement with her. It is something you should bring up with the counsellor, his advice to you husband will go farther than yours because its coming from an independant source. I cant imagine what goes through your head and cant blame you at all for being anxious about it all I would be too, trying to put your rel back together and dealing with that too ugg. It seems so conflictive and must make it hard to move forward. At least he is involving you in the process hopefully thats a good sign. Good luck at your session
January 24th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Shennie, the chat room is accessible at the top of this page to the left. There’s a box that says chat. Click on it and it will take you to a box to sign in. You need to create a user name and password. Thanks for the support, I’ll let ya know how the session today goes. MS
January 24th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Hi all, just an update on our counseling session. We took a few marriage compatability tests last week and after analysis by the pysch. he told us that we differ on a few key issues, one is communication (that’s a surprise) and our children. We touched a little bit on these issues but mainly focused on the email thing from my previous post and the anxiety we are both having and for me depression. the couns. wants me on an antidepressant, so I am making an appt with my internist. I know he is right and if a med. will help then I am all for it.
He also told my husband that he needs to get in control of his obsessive thougths about the OP. That this is triggered by anxiety and relieved with contact with her. He told him to tell himself to STOP when he starts thinking of her and do an activity to get this off his mind, and if he can’t do it then he needs to take a xanax. He thought that it was a step in the right direction today though with him telling me about the email etc. from the post above. No real epiphanies. I know counseling is a slow process and we need to work at home on a lot of issues. It’s just so difficult and exhausting somedays. Plus when one of us doesn’t feel like “working” on things at the moment and the other does, we face a new challange, resentment. All in all, we are still plugging along, and both have hopes of coming out of this better together than we ever have been, so that is progress I guess. Hope all is well with all of you, MS
January 24th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
MS Can empathises with you. It feels strange for me as well as I have to support my h in getting over his feelings for the OP. He has got himself in such a mess. Her daughter left an abusive message on his phone as she blames him for splitting up her family. Then I get a message on my phone from the OP’s h to tell me his daughter tried to commit suicide and puts the full blame on my h and threatened to do something to my h. My fear is for my daughter… I hope nothing is done to her as payback. My h has got himself involved with a screwed up, violent family. After all this happening last night the good thing that came out of it is that he opened up and talked about things. Admitted that he still felt strongly about her and it will take time to get over her. He also commented on how I have stuck by him through all this and admires me for that. Some positive things came out of the discussion. Talked about her being like an addiction and what happens on a day to day basis the important thing. (Thanks Sue for that one and the marathon analogy in the chat room… he could relate to that.) My h contacted the OP to tell her what her h had done … like you said MS was that just an excuse to relieve his anxiety of not seeing her… he should have just let it go. At least he told me. There have been a few subtle changes in him.
He made an interesting comment last night. I used the Dr Bob.. I to have sometimes thought that I maybe better off with someone else. His reply was that he would be better off than me because I would have to find someone. I was able to confidently reply.. No, I would be the one that would be better off because I have learnt a lot about myself over the past 2 years and I wouldn’t just be trading one relationship for another. I would have the opportunity to be happy on my own before I found someone I wanted to share my life with so that someone would be rather special. Not be compeled to jump from the frying pan into the fire with all the problems of that family!!! So all just hang on to the thought of how much you have all grown and the compassion and forgiveness you have in your hearts… this makes us all very special people. To be able to forgive is a very liberating thing and I think people don’t realize that until they have been placed in the situation where they have to be able to dig deep within themselves to find forgiveness for something that someone heas done to them.
January 24th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Hi All
Jesse – good for you! you are SO right about you being better off than him if you were to find someone else. I would not be based on lies, secrecy, deception, etc. His is. It’s not reality based. You are very strong and I am sorry you have to go through this also. I’ve been in your boat but fortunatly not had to deal with the OP’s family calling or flipping out. But, doesn’t that show you what a mess he’s got himself involved in! I agree that this has to make all of us on this blog much stronger people! I can’t see how any of it makes them or the OP stronger, unless they realize the harm they truly caused, they are still living in their own denial, etc.
Stay strong.
January 24th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
I agree anonymous… the denial they live in stiffles them. I have asked my h to change his phone number so her family can’t contact him. He said he would but hasn’t got around to it. I think this denial is a way of getting around what is happening as the reality of the situation he has created. It is avoiding admitting that he is the one responsible. I feel an incredable calmess within me and have told him that sometimes I feel like it would be better to take myself and my daughter right away from this. He said don’t do that as he feels that he has turned the corner. Maybe soon he might realize that there are a few things he needs to do to make me feel that it is okay for me to trust him a little.
January 24th, 2007 at 9:27 pm
Hi all – I have been checking the other blog, and then decided to try this one, which is now almost as long as the other! So I am catching up…way back someone asked for some facts: I am 56 and my husband is 57 – the OP is 48. My husband and I were high school sweethearts and have been married for 36 years – the affair started in the summer of 2004 and I discovered it in February 2006. We have one son who is 26 and lives on his own. I confided in him last May because I was also (like Sue) preparing for a deadline and I felt that he should be forewarned. A few weeks ago, after discussing my son’s current problems with his own girlfriend with my husband, I suggested that we tell him together about the affair and we called him and did so – so although my husband doesn’t know I had already told him, at least he knows that my son now is aware of what he did – I had written about this on the other blog.
Liz – I am glad you are reading “NOT Just Friends” and finding it helpful – I told my therapist this past weekend that I think it should be required reading for any couple contemplating marriage.
As I skimmed through all the comments, a couple of things came to mind – yes, I take an antidepressant and have done so since April – it primarily helps me to sleep better. Back this past summer when things were improving between my husband and me and going not so well between the OP and him (that is, I think their efforts to be “friends” wasn’t working because she was getting demanding, etc) he informed me that since she had so many problems (and at one point he said he told her that he could not solve her problems for her and that he thought he WAS her problem) she also went on an antidepressant.
As for encounters with her – well, my husband and she do not know I know her by sight – they both know that I know her name and where she lives – I know that she knows me by sight. I have kept it that way because this is a small town and it allows me to encounter her by chance without her realizing it so I can observe her covertly. I have tripped over, by coincidence, one habit of hers – going to the Starbuck’s in our neighborhood on Wed. nights with a girlfriend – on two or three occasions I have deliberately run errands in the same place and stopped in there, wanting to have her see me and hoping she will recall that I exist and am flesh and blood too. As for her illness (breast cancer) and her marriage (abusive husband, she has filed for divorce) – well, she looks fine to me and I would rather have it that way.
Hmmm – the relapses – how many? Well in my mind there were 2 – kind of. In early August he told her he wouldn’t meet with her anymore – a few weeks later, I found out he wasn’t where he said he was (a friend of mine helped me out on this one – I was following a “hunch”) and called him on his phone – he first lied, then I said “the heck with it” and called him again and asked if he was really where he said he was and he told me no, he was with her “trying to end this once and for all.” A week and a half later, she called him – he answered – he told me about the call, I blew up – so he ended all contact on Labor Day weekend by writing her a letter – but – he said that he intended to call her at some point to see how her health was – not to start up again, not as a friend but just as one human being to another – so that was hanging out there for a couple months. He said he would tell me – but – turns out he didn’t tell me – as he later explained, he bumped into her in late Oct. and had started emailing – knew he should have told be but couldn’t bring himself to (more than likely because he didn’t want to endure a “scene”) I saw those emails and although it was clear from them that the love affair really was “over” as far as they were concerned, there were allusions to songs that reminded them of each other, blah, blah – so it was a true blessing that I discovered them – I, by that time, had enough strength to blast him – he never knew what my proof was, though. Someone said never to accuse on a feeling and I totally agree. Anyway, he paid closer attention this time and could finally see it through my eyes. Someone back awhile ago said that she wished that her husband would think about how it would be if the tables were turned? Guess what? They can’t – they just insist that their circumstances are “different.” Little do they know that they all say the same things! I, as did someone else on this blog, told him that I don’t have another one of these in me and I think and hope that he believes that.
As far as the OW just accepting the ending? Well every case is different – but in mine, she wasn’t going to let go until he really made her mad – and the way he cut her off this last time wasn’t cruel but it was abrupt – and she went ballistic on him – I think she scared him by showing up at his school and waiting for him to come out so she could blast him – maybe it dawned on him that this was real and that he wouldn’t like it if people he worked with saw this altercation, etc – in the email she wrote later, she called him a “wimp” for being “scared” that I might see them – as well as a few other choice things – she told him he may think he loves me but it’s a joke, that he isn’t in love with me and he just thinks he loves me because we have been together for so long – she also accused me of “setting him up” to reveal that they had been in contact by confronting him – damn straight – I did set him up – to tell me the truth.
As far as whether it’s discovered or they reveal it – yes, I wish he had revealed it – but I started snooping because I started listening harder to stuff he was saying – when I mentioned that to him he said that he thought he was “trying” to tell me in a way – he is not a great communicator, doesn’t express feelings well (and will not go to counseling because of not liking to talk about his feelings) but he has improved through this process because we have had to talk about all this awful stuff.
Hope this hasn’t been too long – I haven’t been able to get into the chat room either but will try again
Good luck and hugs to you all – take good care of yourselves – I’ll be back or will find you…
January 24th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
OK…again……you are all saying things that I can so relate to.
Liz…I have/had that book (gave to my h to read) and I don’t remember reading about the part of how it ends. Everything I remember says that it must happen immediately and with finality. I have been struggling with this as my h believes what you have said and has been moving steadily in that direction. I also believe it but have wondered how much I am allowing it to continue by hanging on. Of course, when thinking this through I can say I am not allowing it to continue…I can only ‘allow’ what happens to me. This thought actually makes me feel much better.
MS…..I say ‘yeah for you’. That sounds like huge progress, even if it doesn’t feel like it. I also do some of that supportive talk with my h and find it very bizarre. However, some of my more ‘evolved’ friends find it very encouraging that I am able to have some empathy without sacrificing my own feelings. Heady stuff, but it somehow makes me feel so much better knowing that we can talk about it and that if we have a future together it won’t be so fraught (at least not as much) with the ‘elephant in the living room’…I’m not so good with elephants.
Jessi…glad the analogy helped. It sounds like a corner is being turned, but definately in the beginning stages. Still, very significant.
Actually, all of these situations (mine included) sound like they are on the continuum of increased honesty and realization of feelings. The hell is in not taking backward movement which always seems to exist.
Hope the foward momentum continues for us all. Yes, we are strong special people. That is a good part of why so much of the world does not understand. Their strength has never been put to the test. Lucky them.
January 25th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Right on target with your final comment Sue, but I would say lucky us… we are really learning how strong we are and not everyone gets that chance. You need to forgive before you can heal… be empowered not bitter, be strong and love yourself more than anything else.
January 25th, 2007 at 9:54 am
i am going to write on the title above this a future tinged with hope as it seems thats where most are and this one is getn long again.
January 25th, 2007 at 11:26 am
Marlene, glad you found us, funny, I was just going to say lets move to next blog section since this one is getting so long. 36yrs married? Wow! I’ve been married 12 yrs this June and am 38, H is 38 also. I have told my husband that while I know he feels his youth fading and isn’t dealing with the aging process well(he feels out of shape, needs to lose a little weight, has a few aches and pains, chronic heartburn etc) I cannot stick around and let my life stay on hold for a man that may just say to hell with it and leave anyway a few years down the road. I’m only 38 and I still could meet someone and be married for 40 yrs to someone else. I told him last night that his “longing” for her that causes him anxiety is really beginning to urke me and while I am glad he told me about his feelings, a big step for us, I am concerned he is getting “stuck” in this cycle and I can’t do this forever. Either the cycle has to break or we do. I’m not sure what kind of deadline to put on myself. How long do I allow him to grieve, feel, long for her?
He says it’s different, not that he wants to be with her or anything, just thinks about her, good and bad and what he did to both of us and puts him in a panic. Now I am a rational person, realistic even, I know that he isn’t just going to turn this off like a faucet, but if he was truely happy with me and being home, don’t ya all think he would just be at least indifferent to her by now. They haven’t had a physical relationship, meaning sex, since June I think, so what is the draw to her. She isn’t anything special to look at, and from what he says she complains alot about her family and always has a problem. Maybe that’s it? He likes to be her helper. Give her advice, and she listens.
I’m not giving up on us, I think that counseling is helping, but I have wasted a year of my life now, on this crap and I want more from life and love. I don’t want a divorce, but I want the man I married. I told my H last night I didn’t really know him anymore. I mean I know his likes and dislikes, the things that please him, and irritate him, but I don’t really KNOW his values anymore, his philosophy on life, he plans for the future. I thought I did, but since all this, I see we must have very different views on marriage, fidelity, family etc. The really important issues. We need to be on the same page with this stuff or what is there to fight for? I hope to see you all in chat soon, it’s so good to share this all with people who understand. Take good care, MS
January 25th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
HI EVERYONE!!!
MS – you and I are the same age, in the same boat. I keep telling myself, “OK, I’ve wasted a year on this hell of the OW, infidelity, snooping around, crying, roller coaster emotions, etc. Now I feel the ball is in my H’s court. I too, keep thinking, unless there is a major turnaround, I am heading for the big D. I DON’T want a divorce anymore than you, I never envisioned that for my life whatsoever, but, I can’t go on like this much longer either. I think I am still young, and could still meet a wonderful man and have a “life” ahead of me. I am not giving up just yet, but I can tell my patience is wearing very thin at this point!
Jesse – I couldn’t agree more with your comment that as painful as this infidelity stuff is (and I don’t wish it upon anyone) I have to say, it brings out an inner strength that I never knew existed down deep inside of me. I am actually becoming impressed with myself! Ha! As many tears as I have cried, and as much anger and pain as I’ve endured, some inner strength has made me a more confident, head strong woman. I KNOW what my morals are, and I have goals. I know what I expect now out of life. So, the old saying,”what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” really holds water!
Sue – the book just basically mentioned that if your spouse was CAUGHT in the affair, it most likely won’t end abruptly. The affair has to die it’s own natural death. So, basically there is a big difference if they confess or if they are discovered. And, my H was discovered by me both times. And yes, the book absolutely says it has to END ASAP.
Marlene – must be something about Labor Day Weekend! Ha! that was the turning point for us too :)
January 25th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
To all. Love your notes. I agree with being thankful for feeling stronger…..just feel a bit bitter on occasion.
Today I was talking with my h on the phone and found myself feeling very annoyed. Nothing was being said or done that would have caused it. All of a sudden I started to cry and realized I am close to being done living like this. Now, I know I have felt this way and said it many times, but this was different….it was not pre-meditated…..it just was.
I think I scared him….I know I scared myself. We are having dinner tonight. I don’t know what will happen. I really don’t want to move on when he is making so much emotional progress…and towards us/away from the affair. But I am getting more and more numb. Being involved with him while he is living with her is beyond by comprehension now. I think I am moving toward my strength to be alone. I think I have too before the scars are too large. We’ll see. I hope I can hold our for my counseling appointment next Wednesday.
Won’t be in the chat room tonight…unless it’s later…..as he will be here. Of course, it probably would do him some good to go to the chat room. He is someone that just might. Well…….maybe not. My space! Have a good night (or day for those of you in other time zones!)
January 25th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
Okay so…….My H comes home from work today and says he talked to a friend of his, who is a woman, I know her, and she is a friend of the OP. Anyway, he says he talked to this person, I’ll call her Amy(not her real name). Amy knows about my H and the OP of course and she and her H have been the only two people that my H told about the affair. He went to this girls H for the name of a lawyer months ago. This guys first wife cheated on him and they divorced, but didn’t try to judge my H, just gave him the info he requested and said just be there for you kids. Anyhooo, after this last retreat and ending at the beginning of Jan, the OP goes to this Amy and tells her he ended it, I called her nutso etc… and that the only two good things at work were Amy, and my H so now she doesn’t have him and she is leaving the company!!!! Holy cow! Jump for joy! So my H tells me this and a few other things about the conversation. He said that Amy just wanted to know how he was doing and that I must be relieved that this is finally done and my H says he’s doing fine, stressed, but ok and that I am relieved. So my question to you all is “Why does this bother me and why do I feel uneasy and distressed by this?” Is it because I feel like people are talking behind my back? Am I just paranoid? Maybe it’s because I am so embarrassed that these people know and they don’t really KNOW me so how does all this reflect on me? I feel like some kind of reject who couldn’t keep her man happy so he had to look elsewhere for happiness. I know it’s not my fault, and he’s the one who cheated and I didn’t DO anything to make him have an affair, I’ve written these things myself to other people in support. It’s just it all sounds so good on paper, but living it and believing it is another story.
I just can’t figure out why I am not happy now that it’s finally over and she’s actually leaving his work? I don’t know if I am still in fear mode. Fear that history will repeat itself again or fear of letting myself be happy so I won’t get hurt again? This is silly, but I love country music and today I was watching a video by Brad Paisley. The song is called “She’s Everything” I think and the lyrics are “She’s everything I ever wanted, everything to me, when I talk about her I could go on and on and on. She’s everything to me.” Something like that, and I just sat there and cried because if he was listening to this, I don’t think it would be me that he was thinking of. It made me so sad. I just don’t feel it. It’s not that he isn’t affectionate and loving to me. He is. It’s not that he doesn’t want to have sex with me, he does. It’s not that he doesn’t tell me he loves me or says nice things to me, or compliments me, he does. He leaves me a note every morning now, about loving me and thinking of me, etc. It’s this overwhelming feeling, that I am not the one he is thinking about during his day or when he hears a love song on the radio, I am not the one he is wishing he was coming home to or the last one he wants to see at night and the first person he wants to see in the morning. It’s like I know he is mending a broken heart, mourning the loss of this person. And I want to know why? Why, if you love me as much as you say you do and want to stay married to me, then why mourn? Why the sadness and far off looks of remembering something? Why isn’t this love enough? My love. Why am I not convinced that I am not settling for something less than everything? I don’t want to settle and I certainly don’t want to be some consolation prize because my husband wasn’t strong enough to divorce me because of how things would change and what people would think. Does anyone else feel like this? I need more than one session a week in therapy, I’ll tell ya. Enough poor me, hope all is well with you guys. Don’t think I’ll be at chat tonight, Grey’s Anatomy is on. McDreamy, yum, yum, even though he was technically a cheater! He’s easy to forgive. LOL! Cya, MS
January 25th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Hang in there Sue.. don’t make any major decisions when your emotions are running high. With my therapist we are working on developing a life for my D and I that will work with or without him. I am also unsure if I want to stay or go and throw my heart out into the universe on the chance of meeting someone else. All I do know is that I have had enough of this limbo so if I start creating my own happiness doing things I want to do then if I decide to leave it will be a gentle weaning myself away from him and I will already have my new life in place. I have stopped snooping into his things, told him that I wasn’t going to do that anymore and it will be on his consceince if he is doing the wrong thing by me. Feel good about that. Going to tell him today that I am going to move on with my life so don’t expect me to be moping about waiting for him to come out of his gloom. I am happy for him to be part of my life but don’t be surprised if I have moved on if it takes him forever to stop wollowing in self pity!!! I don’t want to get to the end of my life and regret that I spent too much of it waiting for him to get real.
MS your story sounds so much like mine, I wonder if the man I married is able to return or if the OP changed his values so much that they are no longer in line with mine. Must talk to him on that one.
What is the title and who is the author of the book you mentioned Anonymous.
Don’t know if I will make it into the chat room over the next few days, in a different time zone to most of you and have a busy weekend.
Thanks for your notes and encouragement. Love to all, keep strong and remember this year is all about you.
January 25th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Sue, I gotta say, I don’t think I could hold it together in your shoes. Maybe a little distance between you and you H would do you and him some good. Maybe you are making it too easy for him to have the best of both worlds. You don’t have to go to the extent of divorce, maybe if you tell him it’s hurting you too much to spend time as a psuedo couple. You either want the real thing or don’t expect anything more from me than “friendliness”. Maybe he needs to miss YOU a little more. My husband said something last night about when he thought of leaving and would come to tell me he was leaving me, he just couldn’t do it, because he couldn’t stand the thought of not seeing me every day and seeing the kids every day. I said sometimes I wish you would have left and maybe you would appreciate me, us, more. Maybe you would have realized that you couldn’t live without me. And if, on the other hand, you realized you were happier on your own with whomever, then we weren’t meant to be and we wouldn’t be happy ever anyway. It just sounds like the stress is getting to you and you can’t be strong indefinately. You are only human after all. Maybe taking a “break” from the stress of him would do you some good. Now I’m not saying you don’t have to have ANY contact with him, I mean you are going to counseling right? But maybe the nights he comes for dinner and what not, you should make and excuse and do something for yourself. Just tell him, if he can’t cut it off then you need some down time from all of this.
this may sound kinds stupid, but is he lying to her when he comes to see you? I mean does she know he is coming to spend time with you and not just your kids? Kinda like he is having an affair with you and you are the OP now? I see a little role reversal here, and maybe this will work in your favor, since he is living with her and the stresses of everyday life will end the fantasy. Not all wine and roses when the laundry is piled high, the bills need to be paid and dinner isn’t a cozy little restaurant on the other side of town. Anyway, maybe I am totally wrong here and please forgive me if I offended you, I don’t mean to. I just hate to see you hurting.
Also, I can’t believe that your counselor is not telling him to break it off clean and come home? All the books I have read and my counselor, say the affair has to be OVER to start any kind of healing in the marriage. Even with my husband “ending” it, we are still dealing with the aftermath of his feelings about ending it and he never even left. We have a LONG way to go to recovery. What is he waiting for with her? Why can’t he leave? What is holding him there? I am sure you have asked him all those questions. Not sure what he answered, but if you are starting to break down from the stress of the situation, then you won’t be good for yourself, your kids or him. I am worried about you. Please keep me posted on how you are doing. MS
January 25th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Hi all – to MS – yeah, watch out for that helper stuff – my husband’s OP had a lot of problems many of which he told me about – and she had much less education and independence than I do and I think she hero-worshipped him – here is one of my thoughts re why it’s hard for them to get “by” it – if they do really feel that they are over the feelings for the OP, then what does that mean about what kind of people they are? see what I mean? it’s better for them to think that they really loved the OP and that they feel bad about hurting both of us – otherwise they are just pr___s who were having a fling and playing around – they can regret what they did but still miss the affair because of how it made them feel about themselves – when you come right down to it, it’s all about how they feel about themselves isn’t it? I think the breakthrough comes when they really start figuring out how WE feel and can empathize – then maybe it becomes more of a feeling that, yeah, I really loved that person especially for how she made me feel about myself but we can’t and shouldn’t always act on our feelings and impulses – and if I really love my spouse, then maybe there is some way that I can feel good about myself in my marriage
Best to you all!!
January 26th, 2007 at 2:06 am
Sue I was thinking along the same lines as MS… maybe you are the OP’S OP now and your H is having the affair with you!!
January 26th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Hey, ladies and gents, some of us have moved to the #4 Quickie blog. Then we don’t have to scroll so far down to read and post. Cya later, MS
May 25th, 2009 at 1:57 am
Morning Guys. I’m trying to find a KeyLogger Software .. Anyone have any ideas of website or where I can get this?
September 10th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
had recently herpes virus found in my blood. what I haveto do??? I’m in panic…