Comments on: Relationship Tips: 16 Practical Dramatic Ways to Know if He/She is REALLY Changing http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/ to Survive and Cope with Infidelity and Extramarital Affairs Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:25:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Confused http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-18396 Confused Wed, 02 Apr 2008 15:26:07 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-18396 LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE I am having trouble dealing with a habilitual liar/cheating husband. We are coming up on the two year mark since my husband has been with the OP. I have recently filed for legal separation and wanted to speak with a lawyer about changing it to a divorce. I found out my husband was cheating on thanksgiving, 2005. Since then I was very naive and believed everything he was telling me (though inside I felt that something was off). I ended up getting pregnant within a couple months and went through the most painful moment of my life being pregnant with our child and him not being there for me. I begged him to be there with me for the birth of our child and he refused saying that he made plans which he couldn't cancel. I was so hurt that didn't want to be there for the birth of his child that I called his sister and cried on the phone to her and I think she talked some sense into him. He ended up cancelling the plans, but I found out later he planned to go to Hawaii with her on vacation to one of her friends weddings. We had a beautiful baby girl who is 8 months now. I recently got access into one of his email accounts (without his knowledge) and found messages that he has been sending this woman. One of which was dated on Aug 1 2007--the day our daughter was born. He told her how much he loved her and how she is "the one" for him and how he planned on taking a lifetime to show her how much he loved and cared for her. Also I found another email that showed one of his plans for 2008 was to go engagement ring shopping with her. I also found out that he told her we got divorced last year and he send her a phoney document as "proof". A few days ago he came ringing my doorbell begging for me to accept him back. He has been lying to me for the past 2 years. He told me he had broken up with her (which I was able to confirm based on a followup email he sent apologizing for wasting 2 years of her life). He has been staying here with my daughter and I and I found out her sent her another email recently stating again that he was indeed divorced and that he had documents to prove it and bascially trying to create a "way back" to her or leave a door open for the possiblity. He doesn't know that I know and he ended up changing the password to his email so I no longer have access. I asked him to access to it and insisted that if he refused to give me access, he was again hiding something from him. He denied it at first but then admitted that he had written to her but refused to give me access stating that our relationship was fragile and he knew if I read what he had written to her I would've love him/want him anymore. I was insisting that I don't want any secrets and that he needed to be open with me. He wanted me to wait and show me later but I told him I didn't want him deleting emails and showing me the ones that he could pick and choose. He was begging me all last night to please not ask him for access and just to move forward from this point on, but I told him I couldn't do that and he ended up going home. I am torn. I still love him, but he has lied to me so many times, I can't trust him. I feel like if I choose to stay this may happen again. He will tell me he's not happy. Treat me cold again. And my daughter will be old enough to see it. He insists to keeping his recent email a secret from me. If this is the way he wants to start working on rebuilding our marriage, then the question is, can this really last. When we started dating, he already had a girlfriend that I found out about later. She called me and we had a long conversation. That should've told me something right there...lol...but I ignored the signs that continued to pop up even while we were dating. LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE

I am having trouble dealing with a habilitual liar/cheating husband. We are coming up on the two year mark since my husband has been with the OP. I have recently filed for legal separation and wanted to speak with a lawyer about changing it to a divorce.
I found out my husband was cheating on thanksgiving, 2005. Since then I was very naive and believed everything he was telling me (though inside I felt that something was off). I ended up getting pregnant within a couple months and went through the most painful moment of my life being pregnant with our child and him not being there for me. I begged him to be there with me for the birth of our child and he refused saying that he made plans which he couldn’t cancel. I was so hurt that didn’t want to be there for the birth of his child that I called his sister and cried on the phone to her and I think she talked some sense into him. He ended up cancelling the plans, but I found out later he planned to go to Hawaii with her on vacation to one of her friends weddings.
We had a beautiful baby girl who is 8 months now. I recently got access into one of his email accounts (without his knowledge) and found messages that he has been sending this woman. One of which was dated on Aug 1 2007–the day our daughter was born. He told her how much he loved her and how she is “the one” for him and how he planned on taking a lifetime to show her how much he loved and cared for her. Also I found another email that showed one of his plans for 2008 was to go engagement ring shopping with her. I also found out that he told her we got divorced last year and he send her a phoney document as “proof”.
A few days ago he came ringing my doorbell begging for me to accept him back. He has been lying to me for the past 2 years. He told me he had broken up with her (which I was able to confirm based on a followup email he sent apologizing for wasting 2 years of her life). He has been staying here with my daughter and I and I found out her sent her another email recently stating again that he was indeed divorced and that he had documents to prove it and bascially trying to create a “way back” to her or leave a door open for the possiblity. He doesn’t know that I know and he ended up changing the password to his email so I no longer have access. I asked him to access to it and insisted that if he refused to give me access, he was again hiding something from him. He denied it at first but then admitted that he had written to her but refused to give me access stating that our relationship was fragile and he knew if I read what he had written to her I would’ve love him/want him anymore. I was insisting that I don’t want any secrets and that he needed to be open with me. He wanted me to wait and show me later but I told him I didn’t want him deleting emails and showing me the ones that he could pick and choose. He was begging me all last night to please not ask him for access and just to move forward from this point on, but I told him I couldn’t do that and he ended up going home.
I am torn. I still love him, but he has lied to me so many times, I can’t trust him. I feel like if I choose to stay this may happen again. He will tell me he’s not happy. Treat me cold again. And my daughter will be old enough to see it.
He insists to keeping his recent email a secret from me. If this is the way he wants to start working on rebuilding our marriage, then the question is, can this really last.
When we started dating, he already had a girlfriend that I found out about later. She called me and we had a long conversation. That should’ve told me something right there…lol…but I ignored the signs that continued to pop up even while we were dating.

]]> By: JuneD http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-419 JuneD Fri, 15 Dec 2006 03:14:01 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-419 Shennie, My heart breaks for you. Please do not give up! No one will "step up" for your kids like you will. No one can fill the void of a mother. If nothing else you have to be strong for them until you can be strong for you. He is not worth it!! You need to find a group to belong to. I joined a women's group at church with women my age and made a lot of new friends. I also volunteer at my kids' school and meet other mothers. You have to get out there and if the beer isn't helping, then leave it alone. When I first found out about my husband, the pain was sooo overwhelming I just wanted it to end in any way possible-just end. But I pushed on, joined a gym, volunteered, worked part-time, took my kids on mini vacations. At first, I felt like I was just going through the motions, but gradually I got stronger and felt better about myself, inside & out. Just don't quit!! keep going no matter what. There's a book I read by Stormy O'Martian called "Just Enough Light for the step I'm on". It helped tremendously. I wish you all the best!! Darnelle, Be careful about the tape recorder. It's illegal in many states. I thought sure my husband was no longer seeing the OP until I discovered something that made me suspicious so I put a tape recorder in his car and boy did I get an earful!! I had found another cellphone hidden in his car. I knew if I approached him about it, he'd have said, we're just friends and I hid it b/c I know you don't like her. So I taped him. They obviously weren't "just friends". But beware, knowledge is costly. Even now I can hear his voice echoing in my head telling her what he likes to do to her. It's hard to forgive & forget and 11 months later, it's still hard to forget. But if you must do it, go to Best Buy and get a digital voice activated tape recorder. Don't put it near the floor b/c all you'll get is engine noise. And DO NOT get caught! Best of luck to you but trust your gut and only do it if you're prepared to live with hearing the things that are said. B.J. - yes I did read your earlier post but not until after I had written mine. Trust me, I completely understand where you're coming from. Yes, the doubt is always there. My husband HAD to go to the mall Monday night & get new clothes & conveniently left his cell phone in the car for 45 min. so he was unreachable and what do you know, he didn't find anything to buy. Maybe that's true. 2 years ago I wouldn't have thought anything about it. Now, I don't really believe it. Not going to worry about it though b/c if he is doing something, it will only continue to escalate and he will get caught and then I'll leave and find someone I can trust and be with. If he's not doing anything, then he will concentrate on our marriage and we will get better. Every day it get a little bit better but then I've been fooled before. Time will tell. But it does sound like your wife is truly sorry and is really trying. I do hope you give her a chance to prove it. I know- she didn't give you a chance. Thanks for your advise. It is well needed. Shennie,
My heart breaks for you. Please do not give up! No one will “step up” for your kids like you will. No one can fill the void of a mother. If nothing else you have to be strong for them until you can be strong for you. He is not worth it!! You need to find a group to belong to. I joined a women’s group at church with women my age and made a lot of new friends. I also volunteer at my kids’ school and meet other mothers. You have to get out there and if the beer isn’t helping, then leave it alone. When I first found out about my husband, the pain was sooo overwhelming I just wanted it to end in any way possible-just end. But I pushed on, joined a gym, volunteered, worked part-time, took my kids on mini vacations. At first, I felt like I was just going through the motions, but gradually I got stronger and felt better about myself, inside & out. Just don’t quit!! keep going no matter what. There’s a book I read by Stormy O’Martian called “Just Enough Light for the step I’m on”. It helped tremendously. I wish you all the best!!

Darnelle,
Be careful about the tape recorder. It’s illegal in many states. I thought sure my husband was no longer seeing the OP until I discovered something that made me suspicious so I put a tape recorder in his car and boy did I get an earful!! I had found another cellphone hidden in his car. I knew if I approached him about it, he’d have said, we’re just friends and I hid it b/c I know you don’t like her. So I taped him. They obviously weren’t “just friends”. But beware, knowledge is costly. Even now I can hear his voice echoing in my head telling her what he likes to do to her. It’s hard to forgive & forget and 11 months later, it’s still hard to forget. But if you must do it, go to Best Buy and get a digital voice activated tape recorder. Don’t put it near the floor b/c all you’ll get is engine noise. And DO NOT get caught! Best of luck to you but trust your gut and only do it if you’re prepared to live with hearing the things that are said.

B.J. - yes I did read your earlier post but not until after I had written mine. Trust me, I completely understand where you’re coming from. Yes, the doubt is always there. My husband HAD to go to the mall Monday night & get new clothes & conveniently left his cell phone in the car for 45 min. so he was unreachable and what do you know, he didn’t find anything to buy. Maybe that’s true. 2 years ago I wouldn’t have thought anything about it. Now, I don’t really believe it. Not going to worry about it though b/c if he is doing something, it will only continue to escalate and he will get caught and then I’ll leave and find someone I can trust and be with. If he’s not doing anything, then he will concentrate on our marriage and we will get better. Every day it get a little bit better but then I’ve been fooled before. Time will tell. But it does sound like your wife is truly sorry and is really trying. I do hope you give her a chance to prove it. I know- she didn’t give you a chance. Thanks for your advise. It is well needed.

]]> By: Cheryl http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-416 Cheryl Thu, 14 Dec 2006 04:54:27 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-416 Hi! I?m new here. I?ve read all of your experiences and I have here some old grandmas wisdom : If it doesn?t cost you, the odds are you are not going to appreciate it. I have been with my husband for 14 years now and last december right after christmas he told me he was having an affair. No need to tell you how I felt you all have been there. I took a step forward and started taking care of me again, I lost 30 pounds and did a lot of things for me. But still the thing with the OP kept going. I realize now that ever since I fell in love with him everything was a given. When I saw e-mails, text messages and phone messages I just could not believe that he would let anybody treat him like that. I was in shock, because have never spoken to him in a way that could be offensive and I certainly don?t think he would accept it from me. We have 3 kids and as far as I can tell the affair went on for 2 years before I found out. That was when our little doughter was 1 year old. I tried all the possible advices and he kept saying that leaving the OP was a proccess, until I ran out of patience and told him that for the first time in my life I was thinking of leaving him. He knows me, and he could tell I was being very serious. I don?t threat. It was like a cold shower I think seeing the possibility so real started the change. Nevertheless he still talks to her, and calls her everyday. I said everything I had to. I told him it hurts to know that she is somehow in my life and he started going about me trying to make him do things he did not want to etc.etc. So the thing is, even though he says I?m the one, and that he loves me, and even though our sex live is better than ever. I haven?t cost him enough. I agree with Evan, you have to be you. Nobody deserves that you diminish your self, and it is hard because if you let people use you, you are to blame too. I don?t know if our marriage will survive this, it is hard not to replay the movie in your head. It is hard to stop hurting. And it is hard when you know that the OP is not completely aout of the system. I?m trying a new strategy, I can?t do the girls night out thing because it is hard for me to find somebody to leave the kids with. But I?m not answering the phone at once, like I used to. Sometimes I say I forgot it at home. During the day while the kids are at school I take my own time and I just switch out. I stopped being the problem solver, the don?t worry I fix it or I do it if you don?t have the time. I figured how much things does he do that he can?t find the time to solve his problems? I run a house, a bussiness, 3 kids and still find time for his things and for beeing all nice and willing when he gets home.... There is no way he does more than me. I just make things to easy... So you should have it if you earned it, that should be the way. The more secure you are, the more forgiving and patience, the more you will hurt. And the sad thing is that even a great love dies from this. I still love my husband, but not the same way. I hope that if things improve I will get to a similar state as before. But the lack of trust and the disappointment is a very high mounting to pass. One year ago I couldn?t see my life without him in the picture. Today I see myself less dependent every day and with him in the picture only if the set of rules are right for me. Otherwise I reached the point where I rather be alone. Thanks for making me feel that I?m not alone. Hi! I?m new here. I?ve read all of your experiences and I have here some old grandmas wisdom : If it doesn?t cost you, the odds are you are not going to appreciate it. I have been with my husband for 14 years now and last december right after christmas he told me he was having an affair. No need to tell you how I felt you all have been there. I took a step forward and started taking care of me again, I lost 30 pounds and did a lot of things for me. But still the thing with the OP kept going.
I realize now that ever since I fell in love with him everything was a given. When I saw e-mails, text messages and phone messages I just could not believe that he would let anybody treat him like that. I was in shock, because have never spoken to him in a way that could be offensive and I certainly don?t think he would accept it from me. We have 3 kids and as far as I can tell the affair went on for 2 years before I found out. That was when our little doughter was 1 year old. I tried all the possible advices and he kept saying that leaving the OP was a proccess, until I ran out of patience and told him that for the first time in my life I was thinking of leaving him.
He knows me, and he could tell I was being very serious. I don?t threat. It was like a cold shower I think seeing the possibility so real started the change. Nevertheless he still talks to her, and calls her everyday. I said everything I had to. I told him it hurts to know that she is somehow in my life and he started going about me trying to make him do things he did not want to etc.etc.
So the thing is, even though he says I?m the one, and that he loves me, and even though our sex live is better than ever. I haven?t cost him enough. I agree with Evan, you have to be you. Nobody deserves that you diminish your self, and it is hard because if you let people use you, you are to blame too.
I don?t know if our marriage will survive this, it is hard not to replay the movie in your head. It is hard to stop hurting. And it is hard when you know that the OP is not completely aout of the system.
I?m trying a new strategy, I can?t do the girls night out thing because it is hard for me to find somebody to leave the kids with. But I?m not answering the phone at once, like I used to. Sometimes I say I forgot it at home. During the day while the kids are at school I take my own time and I just switch out. I stopped being the problem solver, the don?t worry I fix it or I do it if you don?t have the time.
I figured how much things does he do that he can?t find the time to solve his problems? I run a house, a bussiness, 3 kids and still find time for his things and for beeing all nice and willing when he gets home…. There is no way he does more than me. I just make things to easy…
So you should have it if you earned it, that should be the way. The more secure you are, the more forgiving and patience, the more you will hurt. And the sad thing is that even a great love dies from this. I still love my husband, but not the same way. I hope that if things improve I will get to a similar state as before. But the lack of trust and the disappointment is a very high mounting to pass.
One year ago I couldn?t see my life without him in the picture. Today I see myself less dependent every day and with him in the picture only if the set of rules are right for me. Otherwise I reached the point where I rather be alone.
Thanks for making me feel that I?m not alone.

]]> By: BJ http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-414 BJ Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:12:56 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-414 JuneD Hello and thanks for the reply! You Stated: "BJ - it sounds to me like you're wide open for a revenge affair and I can't say that I blame you, but don't stoop to her level" My Reply: I passed the revenge affair stage earlier June...I believe I posted it on this blog one day. It is not about that at all. It is about finding someone who is special and worthy of my love, trust and respect. In the past I was not looking or interested...because I was happily married. Now I would say that I am open to the possibility of having a relationship with someone else. Someone who is honest and true to me like I want to be true to them. The bottom-line for us all...think about it...is even if you stay with the offender the doubt will always be there won't it? When they tell you they are going somewhere...what is the first thought that comes into your head? You wonder where they are and what they are doing when you cannot contact them after a prolonged period of time...dont you? I do not want to live my life in a relationship filled with doubt...you? I would definitely tell my wife upfront what is happening. Which in essence I would be telling her "Good-Bye" ... it would be hurtful (maybe) but again she brought it upon herself. You see June...I was on here earlier waxing poetically and so forth. But now I have become realistic about it all. People who cheat find someone they like and are attracted to and have sex with them...plain and simple. You can analyze it any way you want but at a base level that is what it comes down to. You liked someone and you wanted to have sex with them outside of your committed relationship when you knew better but said "I don't care" because I want it anyway. So no more crap about why and all that...I'm moving on with or without her! There are some lovely and beautiful women out there who are true. I was afraid earlier because you don't know what is on the other side. But now I know it will probably be me out there on the other side and I'm okay with that. Stoop down to her level?...Never! Find a new woman?...Priceless! JuneD

Hello and thanks for the reply!

You Stated:

“BJ - it sounds to me like you’re wide open for a revenge affair and I can’t say that I blame you, but don’t stoop to her level”

My Reply:

I passed the revenge affair stage earlier June…I believe I posted it on this blog one day. It is not about that at all.

It is about finding someone who is special and worthy of my love, trust and respect. In the past I was not looking or interested…because I was happily married. Now I would say that I am open to the possibility of having a relationship with someone else. Someone who is honest and true to me like I want to be true to them. The bottom-line for us all…think about it…is even if you stay with the offender the doubt will always be there won’t it? When they tell you they are going somewhere…what is the first thought that comes into your head? You wonder where they are and what they are doing when you cannot contact them after a prolonged period of time…dont you? I do not want to live my life in a relationship filled with doubt…you?

I would definitely tell my wife upfront what is happening.
Which in essence I would be telling her “Good-Bye” … it would be hurtful (maybe) but again she brought it upon herself.

You see June…I was on here earlier waxing poetically and so forth. But now I have become realistic about it all. People who cheat find someone they like and are attracted to and have sex with them…plain and simple. You can analyze it any way you want but at a base level that is what it comes down to. You liked someone and you wanted to have sex with them outside of your committed relationship when you knew better but said “I don’t care” because I want it anyway.

So no more crap about why and all that…I’m moving on with or without her! There are some lovely and beautiful women out there who are true. I was afraid earlier because you don’t know what is on the other side. But now I know it will probably be me out there on the other side and I’m okay with that.

Stoop down to her level?…Never!

Find a new woman?…Priceless!

]]> By: BJ http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-413 BJ Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:06:00 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-413 To Shennie... Sweetie, trust me it will get better. What does the hot song right now say "It is Never the Right Time to Say Goodbye!" Trust me I know that now more than ever. It is time for you to realize that also Shennie. Do not dwell in that dark place that we have all been in any longer. I think that you must take your kids and leave his "Sphere of Influence." There must be somewhere you always thought of relocating to. Go there and don't tell anyone...no one! Establish your own life and identity without him. You see he cannot make you strong only you can do that for yourself. But he can make you weak if you allow it to happen and if you are dealing with a person who is mean, vindictive and seems to take delight in degrading you then you need to remove yourself from that environment. You are strong and I and many others here believe in you. You will not give that puke and that homewrecker the satisfaction of knowing they destroyed you. You are worthy of happiness and you will be loved by someone again. I repeat you will be loved again! He will be kind and decent and treat you like you deserve. It will pass like a bad dream and you will wonder why you ever spent so much time on this loser. He is not worth your thoughts and energy. So start the process of empowerment RIGHT NOW! Get some motivational materials: Movies: Alice Doesnt Live Here Anymore! Waiting to Exhale! Enough...Jennifer Lopez! First Wives Club (I love that movie!) Books: Can really remember any...I'm sooo visual! Anyone got any recommendations? Trips: GET OUT and GET AWAY! Planning: Start planning your life change Shennie...DO IT! Put your energy into that...not him or your current situation. Thinking of your future...because you have the power to make it whatever you want it to be. Your life belongs to you and not to him. You allowed him to share it not have it! He screwed it up now cut him off! Beleive me I been there. Big tough macho ex-marine boo hooing up a storm because my wife was doing some guy every week for months. She was chasing him more than he was after her. It hurt! Plain and simple I found out that she was giving it to him anytime he called and wanted it. I was begging and longing for intimacy with her the whole time and getting rebuffed. HA!!!! Is what I say now! While I am still with her I dont really have much belief in her right now and do not want to really. I found that I had stopped believing in me...BJ! So now I believe again...I am the man! Walking tall and proud and not wondering what is wrong with me....why? Because it was her Shennie! Not me! She was weak and I have been strong for 11 years. I can look her in the eye and know that she knows it. You will be able to do so soon Shennie...face down your fear and smile in knowing you can and have bested it! NOW GET GOING!!!!! YOU ARE GOING TO BE AWESOME!!!!! To Shennie…

Sweetie, trust me it will get better. What does the hot song right now say “It is Never the Right Time to Say Goodbye!”

Trust me I know that now more than ever. It is time for you to realize that also Shennie. Do not dwell in that dark place that we have all been in any longer.

I think that you must take your kids and leave his “Sphere of Influence.” There must be somewhere you always thought of relocating to. Go there and don’t tell anyone…no one!

Establish your own life and identity without him. You see he cannot make you strong only you can do that for yourself. But he can make you weak if you allow it to happen and if you are dealing with a person who is mean, vindictive and seems to take delight in degrading you then you need to remove yourself from that environment.

You are strong and I and many others here believe in you.
You will not give that puke and that homewrecker the satisfaction of knowing they destroyed you. You are worthy of happiness and you will be loved by someone again. I repeat you will be loved again! He will be kind and decent and treat you like you deserve. It will pass like a bad dream and you will wonder why you ever spent so much time on this loser. He is not worth your thoughts and energy.

So start the process of empowerment RIGHT NOW!

Get some motivational materials:

Movies:

Alice Doesnt Live Here Anymore!
Waiting to Exhale!
Enough…Jennifer Lopez!
First Wives Club (I love that movie!)

Books:

Can really remember any…I’m sooo visual!
Anyone got any recommendations?

Trips:

GET OUT and GET AWAY!

Planning:

Start planning your life change Shennie…DO IT!
Put your energy into that…not him or your current situation.
Thinking of your future…because you have the power to make it whatever you want it to be. Your life belongs to you and not to him. You allowed him to share it not have it! He screwed it up now cut him off!

Beleive me I been there. Big tough macho ex-marine boo hooing up a storm because my wife was doing some guy every week for months. She was chasing him more than he was after her. It hurt! Plain and simple I found out that she was giving it to him anytime he called and wanted it. I was begging and longing for intimacy with her the whole time and getting rebuffed.

HA!!!! Is what I say now! While I am still with her I dont really have much belief in her right now and do not want to really. I found that I had stopped believing in me…BJ!
So now I believe again…I am the man! Walking tall and proud and not wondering what is wrong with me….why?
Because it was her Shennie! Not me! She was weak and I have been strong for 11 years. I can look her in the eye and know that she knows it. You will be able to do so soon Shennie…face down your fear and smile in knowing you can and have bested it!

NOW GET GOING!!!!! YOU ARE GOING TO BE AWESOME!!!!!

]]> By: Darnelle http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-411 Darnelle Wed, 13 Dec 2006 05:56:35 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-411 Thank you Evan, Karen, and June D for your advice and kind words of wisdom. I just have a hard time with the trust issue right now and it's really hard for me now because my husband went back to work and he works for the railroad and is working and staying away from home. I know I should know my husband more than anybody, but I don't anymore. I thought I did but that all changed when he decided to have the affair. I'm like most of you things are good right now, but then on the other hand weird things happen that make me thing he has contact with the op. Evan you talk about installing a voice recorder in his vehicle. I don't know anything about these devices. Where do you get them? Where do you have them installed? How do they work? I don't even know if I'm ready for that step. I know I want some closure on if he is seeing or contacting the op. I was talking to him on his way home a few months ago and I swear I heard another phone ring. I asked him what that sound was and he said it was the radio; I have a hard time believing that. But then again is that my over thinking kicking in again, I have no idea! When I talked to him tonight he was very distant and grumpy, and that always gets me thinking and wondering what the hell is going on. Evan, I know you also made the comment that there shouldn't be a communication barrier between us, but there is. I always plan out in my head what I want to say to my husband, but it never comes out the way I think it should or he somehow turns my words and thoughts around and makes it sound stupid, and makes me feel like a total ass. Either that or I get the eyes rolling or the smirk when I want to talk about feelings or emotions. Is that a subject guys don't want to talk about or what? I would also like to know if anybody knows if text messages can be track? My husband says he erases them when he gets them so I don't even know if this is possible. I know I sound like a desperate person, but what does a person do in this situation? It's really nice to know that I can pretty much say what I want and I feel everybody knows what I'm talking about. No matter what my friends and family say they don't know what I'm going through. They don't know what it is like being lied to and being betrayed. It's one of the worst things I have ever felt in my life, and it's easy for them to say get the hell out and move on. Right easier said then done. If somebody told me these were the cards I would be dealt in life, I would have told them to go fly a kite. I'm sorry I'm so negative tonight, but I've just have had a bad day and my evening is not much better. I just keep thinking to myself tomorrow is a new and better day. By the way I said I didn't know my head from my asshole last time, well I was right I spelled my own name wrong. My name is really Darnelle not Danelle. I got a pretty good laugh myself about that one. Thank you Evan, Karen, and June D for your advice and kind words of wisdom. I just have a hard time with the trust issue right now and it’s really hard for me now because my husband went back to work and he works for the railroad and is working and staying away from home. I know I should know my husband more than anybody, but I don’t anymore. I thought I did but that all changed when he decided to have the affair. I’m like most of you things are good right now, but then on the other hand weird things happen that make me thing he has contact with the op. Evan you talk about installing a voice recorder in his vehicle. I don’t know anything about these devices. Where do you get them? Where do you have them installed? How do they work? I don’t even know if I’m ready for that step. I know I want some closure on if he is seeing or contacting the op. I was talking to him on his way home a few months ago and I swear I heard another phone ring. I asked him what that sound was and he said it was the radio; I have a hard time believing that. But then again is that my over thinking kicking in again, I have no idea! When I talked to him tonight he was very distant and grumpy, and that always gets me thinking and wondering what the hell is going on. Evan, I know you also made the comment that there shouldn’t be a communication barrier between us, but there is. I always plan out in my head what I want to say to my husband, but it never comes out the way I think it should or he somehow turns my words and thoughts around and makes it sound stupid, and makes me feel like a total ass. Either that or I get the eyes rolling or the smirk when I want to talk about feelings or emotions. Is that a subject guys don’t want to talk about or what? I would also like to know if anybody knows if text messages can be track? My husband says he erases them when he gets them so I don’t even know if this is possible. I know I sound like a desperate person, but what does a person do in this situation? It’s really nice to know that I can pretty much say what I want and I feel everybody knows what I’m talking about. No matter what my friends and family say they don’t know what I’m going through. They don’t know what it is like being lied to and being betrayed. It’s one of the worst things I have ever felt in my life, and it’s easy for them to say get the hell out and move on. Right easier said then done. If somebody told me these were the cards I would be dealt in life, I would have told them to go fly a kite. I’m sorry I’m so negative tonight, but I’ve just have had a bad day and my evening is not much better. I just keep thinking to myself tomorrow is a new and better day. By the way I said I didn’t know my head from my asshole last time, well I was right I spelled my own name wrong. My name is really Darnelle not Danelle. I got a pretty good laugh myself about that one.

]]> By: Sue http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-410 Sue Wed, 13 Dec 2006 05:22:07 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-410 To all: I have not logged in for too long. Dealing with the swirl and that was all I could handle. I want to address both Evan and the last multiple notes as they all bring light for me. First the last notes. I find incredible strength in them. My husband is 'living' with the OP and has only recently begun to realize the reality of the full picture. Will he keep this realization??? Never mind act on it??? I am prepared to move on and have been doing so, but his change has me in the swirl. I have done quite a bit of soul searching and have come to many conclusions that will, of course, change over time. I love him for who he is. I can not live with him any longer as he was. He has changed (is it temporary or real?) in many ways to the person I used to know prior to the downfall. I need to change also. We are working really hard to improve our relationship regardless of the outcome as we have 2 preadolescents who need us completely. But, he stills needs to end the relationship with the OP who could be his daughter.......yes, I am bitter about the age thing. Still need to work on that as it is so unreal. If he does not, what additional pain will follow??? YUCK!! All this to say thank you to the notes about what you are going through. I see myself as someone who could be there and wonder if we will ever get there, and if we do will I be able to deal. I believe I can for so many good reasons, but I am not there yet to even know. I think it all changes as the circumstances change. In the meantime I will be hiring a lawyer in January and continue to protect myself and the kids as a way to move towards independence. Still so hard. I'm not a good writer, so I hope this makes sense. There are too many feelings swirling about for me to convey them without writing a book. The second thing I wanted to address is Evan. You have been incredibly helpful to me through the blogs. I want to start by saying it is NOT YOUR FAULT. However, (I know, this is the 'but' thing, but it is what I think should be said.) I found myself relating to you in a not so pretty way. When we say we provided so much we lose sight of how we need to make changes..........with or without them. If you have done everything you said then you have done way too much. You can not possibly work those hours and do those family things and take care of yourself. Sorry that is harsh, but I think it is something worth looking at. It is possible to do 'too much'. Take some time for yourself (which I believe, from what you have said previously, you have done now) and remember that that time you give yourself is the most important to enable you to ultimately give to your children and wife. Never mind......take care of you! Your notes indicate that she has thrown you off kilter from where you were. I think this is totally and entirely the way it happens. Do what you can to find your feet again. You'll need them to understand what is happening and where it will all go from here. I hope this is not so 'preachy'. I just felt that you've helped me so much it might be worth the shot. Meanwhile, I'm up the creek without a paddle. So, should I really be writing all this? Please let me know what you think. It is sent in the warmest regards, but with knowledge that I may be totally of the path. To all:

I have not logged in for too long. Dealing with the swirl and that was all I could handle. I want to address both Evan and the last multiple notes as they all bring light for me.

First the last notes. I find incredible strength in them. My husband is ‘living’ with the OP and has only recently begun to realize the reality of the full picture. Will he keep this realization??? Never mind act on it???

I am prepared to move on and have been doing so, but his change has me in the swirl. I have done quite a bit of soul searching and have come to many conclusions that will, of course, change over time.

I love him for who he is. I can not live with him any longer as he was. He has changed (is it temporary or real?) in many ways to the person I used to know prior to the downfall. I need to change also. We are working really hard to improve our relationship regardless of the outcome as we have 2 preadolescents who need us completely. But, he stills needs to end the relationship with the OP who could be his daughter…….yes, I am bitter about the age thing. Still need to work on that as it is so unreal. If he does not, what additional pain will follow??? YUCK!!

All this to say thank you to the notes about what you are going through. I see myself as someone who could be there and wonder if we will ever get there, and if we do will I be able to deal. I believe I can for so many good reasons, but I am not there yet to even know. I think it all changes as the circumstances change. In the meantime I will be hiring a lawyer in January and continue to protect myself and the kids as a way to move towards independence. Still so hard.

I’m not a good writer, so I hope this makes sense. There are too many feelings swirling about for me to convey them without writing a book.

The second thing I wanted to address is Evan. You have been incredibly helpful to me through the blogs. I want to start by saying it is NOT YOUR FAULT. However, (I know, this is the ‘but’ thing, but it is what I think should be said.) I found myself relating to you in a not so pretty way. When we say we provided so much we lose sight of how we need to make changes……….with or without them.

If you have done everything you said then you have done way too much. You can not possibly work those hours and do those family things and take care of yourself. Sorry that is harsh, but I think it is something worth looking at. It is possible to do ‘too much’.

Take some time for yourself (which I believe, from what you have said previously, you have done now) and remember that that time you give yourself is the most important to enable you to ultimately give to your children and wife. Never mind……take care of you!

Your notes indicate that she has thrown you off kilter from where you were. I think this is totally and entirely the way it happens. Do what you can to find your feet again. You’ll need them to understand what is happening and where it will all go from here.

I hope this is not so ‘preachy’. I just felt that you’ve helped me so much it might be worth the shot.

Meanwhile, I’m up the creek without a paddle. So, should I really be writing all this? Please let me know what you think. It is sent in the warmest regards, but with knowledge that I may be totally of the path.

]]> By: Shennie http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-409 Shennie Wed, 13 Dec 2006 04:08:49 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-409 To Bj so much of what you said has hit me like a hard ball . All the advice here and some of my own as well i know is all true. But when , where how. Man i feel like i have been to hell and back and has been a while for me. I have fought tooth and nail to hold on to my life my kids lives for 4 long years and I now find myself at a turning point, do I continue or give up. I dont know if I have the strength to continue any longer I really just want to give up. I had a few drinks tonight and done alot of soul searching about how worht it this all is and I just dont know if it really is and for who the kids, for me I feel like I had my chance and things just didnt work out and i have nothing to look to and no where to go. I try to keep moving forward but nothing works out just another battle and im so tired of fighting for thinkgs i believe in. I think I make a friend and they bale me out does anyone really care anyone i mean I feel i have no reason to be here no purpose and the only thing that has stopped me from that thinking in the past is was the kids needed me but do they really, I guess someone will be here for them somehow, no one is going to just leave them high and dry someone will step up maybe even my ex can finally save himself by finaly doing the right thing.If i am gone he will have that chance. I thought a few drinks would uplift me but instead they made me feel like my life was over . I dont normally drink but I feel like it more and more as time goes on. to kill the pain I guess. I am tired for living for everyone but me and i have tried to do that take care of me like we all say but something always happens to throw you back down. You think you find someone who cares and I dont mean a love relationship just a friend and it always thrown out the window for what ever reason. Is it wrong to just not want to be here, How could I have beem so strong for so long only to resolve that this is the end. Did i fight for nothing is that what its always about nothing . Im sick of feeling this way and there is only one way it can really be over and i hate myself for thinking it but i am and its funny how much i have thought of it this last while than i did all the while this has happend, maybe im just done fighting for what i believe is right.amd there is nothing left in me. I have fought and fought and fought but if its never over then whats the point. I dont want pity either i just want it to be over but will never be. I have read books done good deeds helped others and i am left empty and alone to just keep fighting. fighting the tears that overwhelm my life. I can hardly see through my tears to keep writing. I can see everyone on this blog is searching for hope and encouragement and strangely enough i have tried to give it and sadly i need it too. I dont know where else to turn in my life there is no where to turn and i cant even look to myself for strength becaus I have none left in me. I hope you all can overcome what i have not been able to . I dont know why i really have tried . This blog is good for you all to get it out even if no one hears you at least have been able to vent and feel like someone hears you. i am not much in the holiday mood though I hope that for you all . It really is a hopeless cause for me , the only thing i can say to you is save yourselves, save your relationship if you can , while it is so easy to say i wont put up with that and I deserve better and no one should treat me this way etc, etc yes it is true but let me tell you something , the pain you encounter at that stage is nothing compared to what you will encounter in the event things dont work out. I know it sounds so right to say those things and it makes such perfect sense but to live through it is a whole nother ball game becasue its never over until your dead and gone. I would give my soul to the devil to have my life back because everything else is just full of so much pain pain pain. Take care to all of you, Bj I dont think there is any sanctity anywhere but I sure hope your one of the lucky ones who find it because i know its not me To Bj
so much of what you said has hit me like a hard ball . All the advice here and some of my own as well i know is all true. But when , where how. Man i feel like i have been to hell and back and has been a while for me. I have fought tooth and nail to hold on to my life my kids lives for 4 long years and I now find myself at a turning point, do I continue or give up. I dont know if I have the strength to continue any longer I really just want to give up. I had a few drinks tonight and done alot of soul searching about how worht it this all is and I just dont know if it really is and for who the kids, for me I feel like I had my chance and things just didnt work out and i have nothing to look to and no where to go. I try to keep moving forward but nothing works out just another battle and im so tired of fighting for thinkgs i believe in. I think I make a friend and they bale me out does anyone really care anyone i mean I feel i have no reason to be here no purpose and the only thing that has stopped me from that thinking in the past is was the kids needed me but do they really, I guess someone will be here for them somehow, no one is going to just leave them high and dry someone will step up maybe even my ex can finally save himself by finaly doing the right thing.If i am gone he will have that chance. I thought a few drinks would uplift me but instead they made me feel like my life was over . I dont normally drink but I feel like it more and more as time goes on. to kill the pain I guess. I am tired for living for everyone but me and i have tried to do that take care of me like we all say but something always happens to throw you back down. You think you find someone who cares and I dont mean a love relationship just a friend and it always thrown out the window for what ever reason. Is it wrong to just not want to be here, How could I have beem so strong for so long only to resolve that this is the end. Did i fight for nothing is that what its always about nothing . Im sick of feeling this way and there is only one way it can really be over and i hate myself for thinking it but i am and its funny how much i have thought of it this last while than i did all the while this has happend, maybe im just done fighting for what i believe is right.amd there is nothing left in me. I have fought and fought and fought but if its never over then whats the point. I dont want pity either i just want it to be over but will never be.
I have read books done good deeds helped others and i am left empty and alone to just keep fighting. fighting the tears that overwhelm my life. I can hardly see through my tears to keep writing. I can see everyone on this blog is searching for hope and encouragement and strangely enough i have tried to give it and sadly i need it too. I dont know where else to turn in my life there is no where to turn and i cant even look to myself for strength becaus I have none left in me. I hope you all can overcome what i have not been able to . I dont know why i really have tried . This blog is good for you all to get it out even if no one hears you at least have been able to vent and feel like someone hears you. i am not much in the holiday mood though I hope that for you all . It really is a hopeless cause for me , the only thing i can say to you is save yourselves, save your relationship if you can , while it is so easy to say i wont put up with that and I deserve better and no one should treat me this way etc, etc yes it is true but let me tell you something , the pain you encounter at that stage is nothing compared to what you will encounter in the event things dont work out. I know it sounds so right to say those things and it makes such perfect sense but to live through it is a whole nother ball game becasue its never over until your dead and gone. I would give my soul to the devil to have my life back because everything else is just full of so much pain pain pain. Take care to all of you, Bj I dont think there is any sanctity anywhere but I sure hope your one of the lucky ones who find it because i know its not me

]]> By: JuneD http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-408 JuneD Wed, 13 Dec 2006 02:28:06 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-408 Thanks MS & thanks BJ. MS - I also need to clarify that my husband broke off contact with the OP on the phone with me present last September. He swears that she's out of the picture. She was a really close friend of his for about 10 years and I believe that she earnestly pursued him. Regardless, the trust is broken. And that's something that's hard to live without, not even sure if that's possible. But I know that time, love & God can heal anything. I do believe that women have a harder time of letting go. I think we internalize more. Would I like to spend the rest of my life with my husband? Absolutely! But only if the OP is out of the picture permanently (one more violation of any kind and I'm gone!!)and he treats me with respect and love. I know he will never be the husband & father that I would like him to be but that's ok b/c he has many other great qualities. I hate to throw away 19 years of our lives together and break my kids' hearts if there is a chance that we can have a great marriage. And I believe we can. But it can't just be me working on it. So we'll see. My counselor told me, you walk out at anytime but you can't always come back. So give it time with your husband and see what happens. If he starts up again with the OP, his attitude will start changing back and you will know it and you will catch him again. If not, then you can both build a new life together. At least try not to worry about it until after the holidays. I sincerely wish you all the best! BJ - it sounds to me like you're wide open for a revenge affair and I can't say that I blame you, but don't stoop to her level. Either stay and do your best to make it work and forgive, or else leave so that you can give your best to someone else. Of course that's easy for me to say but I'm having a difficult time living it. If I met a really great guy, I don't know that I'd not go down that path either. I hope I wouldn't. I don't ever want to give him a chance to lay the blame for the breakup of our marriage on my doorstep. I want to be able to walk away with my integrity intact and with a clear conscience. Good luck to you and I really hope you have a wonderful Christmas. Thanks MS & thanks BJ.

MS - I also need to clarify that my husband broke off contact with the OP on the phone with me present last September. He swears that she’s out of the picture. She was a really close friend of his for about 10 years and I believe that she earnestly pursued him. Regardless, the trust is broken. And that’s something that’s hard to live without, not even sure if that’s possible. But I know that time, love & God can heal anything. I do believe that women have a harder time of letting go. I think we internalize more. Would I like to spend the rest of my life with my husband? Absolutely! But only if the OP is out of the picture permanently (one more violation of any kind and I’m gone!!)and he treats me with respect and love. I know he will never be the husband & father that I would like him to be but that’s ok b/c he has many other great qualities. I hate to throw away 19 years of our lives together and break my kids’ hearts if there is a chance that we can have a great marriage. And I believe we can. But it can’t just be me working on it. So we’ll see. My counselor told me, you walk out at anytime but you can’t always come back. So give it time with your husband and see what happens. If he starts up again with the OP, his attitude will start changing back and you will know it and you will catch him again. If not, then you can both build a new life together. At least try not to worry about it until after the holidays. I sincerely wish you all the best!

BJ - it sounds to me like you’re wide open for a revenge affair and I can’t say that I blame you, but don’t stoop to her level. Either stay and do your best to make it work and forgive, or else leave so that you can give your best to someone else. Of course that’s easy for me to say but I’m having a difficult time living it. If I met a really great guy, I don’t know that I’d not go down that path either. I hope I wouldn’t. I don’t ever want to give him a chance to lay the blame for the breakup of our marriage on my doorstep. I want to be able to walk away with my integrity intact and with a clear conscience. Good luck to you and I really hope you have a wonderful Christmas.

]]> By: MS http://www.infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-407 MS Tue, 12 Dec 2006 23:55:09 +0000 http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/21/relationship-tips-16-practical-dramatic-ways-to-know-if-heshe-is-really-changing/#comment-407 JuneD, thanks for the kind words and support. I guess I should clarify that my husband is here and not seeing the OP, no contact for about 2.5 mos now. Things are actually going very well these days. He is open, trying to be transparent and making every effort to make me feel secure and loved. My problem is that I have this lack of trust that I can't seem to shake no matter how much he tries and no matter what he does or says. Maybe it's from all the back and forth and lies and betrayal over the past year. I just can't seem to shake it. I knew every time before when he was seeing her again and it always turned out right. Now I feel like he is still at least talking to her, they were "friends" and work together. So my dilemma is do I trust my gut and keep searching and being suspicious or do I trust him and give him the benefit of the doubt. I do love my husband, as we all do, or we would have left a long time ago. I just am struggling internally on how to get over this. He has made a BIG deal about Christmas this year and how he wants to give me gifts and make it this great day and is planning a family trip for Easter etc... He says he has seen the error of his ways and knows what he almost lost and says he never left because he knew he loved me and the kids, he just "lost himself" somewhere. Whatever that means. That's why I said I thought it was some kind of mid-life crisis. Anyway, I am trying to just go with the flow and invest in my marriage and love him and until he proves me wrong, believe in him. Time will tell. I hope you and everyone here has a blessed and wonderful holiday. May next year bring only good things for you and your family. You sound strong and have a great attitude, I hope your husband realizes what he is doing before it's too late. You deserve better girl. Take Care, MS JuneD, thanks for the kind words and support. I guess I should clarify that my husband is here and not seeing the OP, no contact for about 2.5 mos now. Things are actually going very well these days. He is open, trying to be transparent and making every effort to make me feel secure and loved. My problem is that I have this lack of trust that I can’t seem to shake no matter how much he tries and no matter what he does or says. Maybe it’s from all the back and forth and lies and betrayal over the past year. I just can’t seem to shake it. I knew every time before when he was seeing her again and it always turned out right. Now I feel like he is still at least talking to her, they were “friends” and work together. So my dilemma is do I trust my gut and keep searching and being suspicious or do I trust him and give him the benefit of the doubt.

I do love my husband, as we all do, or we would have left a long time ago. I just am struggling internally on how to get over this. He has made a BIG deal about Christmas this year and how he wants to give me gifts and make it this great day and is planning a family trip for Easter etc… He says he has seen the error of his ways and knows what he almost lost and says he never left because he knew he loved me and the kids, he just “lost himself” somewhere. Whatever that means. That’s why I said I thought it was some kind of mid-life crisis. Anyway, I am trying to just go with the flow and invest in my marriage and love him and until he proves me wrong, believe in him. Time will tell. I hope you and everyone here has a blessed and wonderful holiday. May next year bring only good things for you and your family. You sound strong and have a great attitude, I hope your husband realizes what he is doing before it’s too late. You deserve better girl. Take Care, MS

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