A common plea: But, we’re “just friends.” However the “emotional connection” is quite obvious by the amount of time spent in communication and the “vibes” that are set off.
These emotional connections often arise at work or in a social context in which working intensively toward a common goal consumes energy.
Here are a few observations of the “just friends” emotional affair:
1. This person often struggles knowing where to draw the line. S/he often throws him/herself into something 100%. Other aspects of his/her life may suffer or be ignored. There often is a lack of personal balance between family, work, self care.
2. He/she struggles with intimacy. (I want to be close to someone, but don’t like intimacy.) The “just friends” emotional affair means neither spouse nor OP (other person) ever get “intimate.” Neither relationship is fully consummated or has potential for growth.
3. Of course the “just friends” comment means either “stay away” or I’m, underneath all this, really confused about where I fit in relationships, what I want from them, or what they mean to me. There is an “emotional connection” to the OP that defies description. A sad kind of “stuckness or lostness.”
The lover or “falling in love” emotional affair has a different twist.
The common complaint to the partner is: “I feel badly about this, and I don’t want to hurt you, but, I’m not “in love” with you anymore. “I love you but I’m not in love.” This often indicates:
1. This person usually has a need for drama and excitement. Life easily becomes a soap opera. Emotional juice from the fall-out of emotionally intense relationships reigns rather than living life from the core of who one is.
2. The person “looking for love?? is actually looking for the ideal, someone out there, who will project back to him/her that he/she is OK. No, more than OK, close to perfect.
3. This person needs to be adored, or think another adores him/her, because there is a lack of inner strength and solid identity. The other becomes my world, because I lack a world. Being “in love?? is the panacea for my emptiness.
4. This type of affair often occurs when there is a “lull?? in the marriage relationship. The responsibility of raising children, starting and maintaining a career, paying bills, etc. become the focal point for the couple. Romance becomes a foreign word.
There are many many subtle differences in affairs. Emotional affairs are only one kind. Once you begin to see and understand the differences, a new sense of empowerment overtakes you embark on a more confident path of resolution.
This type of affair is one of seven is one of seven described in Break Free From the Affair.
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This entry was posted by Dr. Bob Huizenga on Sunday, November 5th, 2006 at 10:41 am and is filed under Extramarital Affair Types. You may follow any responses to this entry through the RSS/XML feed. You may leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
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November 5th, 2006 at 12:24 pm
Our marriage will soon be dissolved after a long term emotional affair that my spouse is still engaged in. The other woman’s husband supports their friendship. All the energy and time invested into their friendship was at the expense of our marriage. Family camping trips were punctuated with amusing letters he wrote to her about events we experienced. (I snooped in his wallet when he used the shower.) I could count on my husband leaving the house to walk the dog within a certain time range at night, which always happened immediately after his cell phone (set to vibrate) alerted him that the other woman was calling. The walks lasted only as long as the phone call he would make to her in response to her phone call. I quietly planned to divorce him and stopped arguing about the affair. In my opinion, these are the most treacherous kinds of affairs. They are more damaging to a marriage than simple sexual infidelity.
November 5th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
It is amazing how so many people do not think an emotional affair is an”affair”. In todays world of technology it is so easy for people to get into this type of an affair before they even know they are there and once they get there because they don’t think they are doing anything wrong or at least they’ll say that, it’s a hard one to break off. I always find it rather interesting how the cheating spouse can say all the loveable words to the OP’s but they can’t say it to you. And, because they don’t think they’re doing anything wrong, eventually the relationship elevates to a full fledge relationship. It’s no different than dating someone for the first time, getting to know them emotionally and then moving on to the physical side of the relationship. Walking away for a marriage involving this type of affair is also very hard. Because a person doesn’t want to disclose that you are monitoring the behavior, as it is your only line of defense to know that it is still going on, if and when a person walks away, everyone in the world will wonder why as the cheating spouse will deny everything and blame it all on the faithful one making things up in their head. The only thing the faithful spouse will have going for them is that they know the truth and that they gave it their best. And, like I said in other posts if the cheating spouse is not willing to open up their communications ( e-mails, cell bills etc.) then they still must be hiding something and not ready to face the truth of their behavior. Lastly, I’ll add, I wish I wouldn’t have to be resposible for “real life” some days too, but responsibilities comes with “real life”…so I like to tell the people running for their marriages seeking the fun and excitement of a emotional affair…grow up!
November 5th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
Afer 10 years in a relationship, he allowed a drug addict with Stevens Johnsons syndrome ( a horrible bleeding blister skin disease), and on disability to move in with him.
Of course he claimed they are “just friends”. She was charged with the 2nd dwi, and possesion of a controlled substance. He said she was evicted from her apt., and would have been homeless if she had not come to live there.
He kept saying he loved me, and she was getting out soon. That was 3 months ago. He came over yesterday with dinner to cook, and plans to go to church. It came out in the coversation last night that he kisses her on the cheek when he goes to work and comes home. Still insists nothing else is going on. Oh yeah I’m supposed to believe that too. Anyway I told him to get out.
This is a very cruel situation that I have been put through.
I am all about knowing the truth.
Eventually it does come out, but takes a toll on you through the waiting process.
November 5th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
a year ago,my wife left after 23 years of marriage! said she needed space and time to think alone.what a shock–days ended in weeks only to find it was all a lie–i ordered the course of break
free from the affair and everything you wrote or suggested is exactly on the money and right to the point!
this has extremely calmed the waters for me and now i have the peace within me from youre course. i thank you so very much and have come to relize that it was not my fault.i have been waiting for her to send the divorce papers and to this date she has not.
even though i still love her i feel all is lost and so i have made my mind up to get the divorce done-i feel no more trust can be have and so i have the strength to go foward and to be proud of who i am,and who i will always be.
please do not hesitate to order and to read and follow thru
with the advice that is outlined–it will save you from going
crazy and heartbroken!thank you very much and i do enjoy the follow-up letters from you. thank-you
November 5th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
i would like to say that there are other reason why people have emotional affairs that i feel did not get mentioned…my infidelity resulted from the fact that my husband had had 3 affairs and he completely tuned out of our marriage…we stayed together and in that i feel i made a mistake because i went looking for emotinal comfort from another man…i take responsability for that…i never looked for it…i just figured i would wait on the sidelines for my husband to get through whatever he was going through…i never cheated on him before never even considered it…but at that point after finding out that his second affair was not a one night stand it just totally messed me up and the fact that he wasn’t willing to deal with it or help me deal with it completely messed me up…i didn’t go looking to have an emoional affair…it just happened…a man paid attention to me when my husband tuned out…and the guy was listening to me to what i had to say…
there isn’t anything wrong with that when the one person you trust to listen to help you to be there for you is gone emotionally…what are you to do??…you are in a place where no one, not even your friends can understand what you are going through because they aren’t going through the same thing…they would never understand…so you have no one to talk to…you are alone….and that’s where i found myself… alone…
November 5th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
My friend of 10 plus years and I crossed the line while he was dating his now wife. We thought we had a good handle on things but soon came to realize we are approaching 5 years of this and every time I try to end it, it becomes this constant struggle of not being able to end it. It is the “emotional aspect” of it all vs the physical. It took a very long time for us to progress to a physical relationship (for obvious reasons of uncertainty) however I don’t know how to end it. Since it started he got married and had a baby and I am the one unable to commit myself to someone else because I can’t bring myself to say goodbye, constantly compare my relationship with him to a new person (the emotional aspect) and he is the one that tends to get “crazy” when I do try to end it. Emotional affairs ARE affairs. They WILL cross over to physical in time. I recognize it as an affair – he does not. He just says “You are different. I want you too.”… he is selfish and now I realize that the emotional affair that started was nothing more than an escape from his life vs truly meaning something to him. I often question why men (or women) who have it all and the perfect life – WHY? The ironic thing is his marriage is happy and he loves her – but why gamble loosing me (your friend) and loosing it all over an affair. Again, he says – “You are different”. Sometimes the OP doesnt want to be the OP but don’t know how not to be.
November 5th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
I cannot clearly speak of the general population on this subject, although I have a very strong opinion. After observing a husband cheating on his wife for 10 years, she was made aware of it after 6 years, said something to him yet he continued with the OP for another 4 years. It ended when he decided to take a job out of state and he moved. He never contacted her again. I watched all of this unfold and even offered support in “getting over it.” It was hard for her to get over it. She had a child with him, that died a birth. She fell in love with him and accepted the fact he was married. Their relationship began with that knowledge and ended with it. He told her many times they were “just friends.” Yet, he was very passionate with her, he even told her he cared about her. He chose his wife over the OP simply because it as his way of fulfilling his need of the intimacy he was not getting at home. He would go to the OP house and take long, spooning naps with her, because he did not get to do it with his wife. He would meet up with her for lunch and have a make-out session on the hood of his Lexus in the middle of the woods. He called her a couple of times a day to “check in.” I think it was to make sure no one else was moving in on his turf. He emailed her at least 30 times a day. I read some of them. He mostly degraded his wife. He also said a lot of nice things to the OP such as, when she made a statement to him that she felt he “did not belong to” her, and he remarked, “I thought I did belong to you.” He consistently told the OP that they were “just friends.” I am sorry but “just friends” do not hang around for 10 years frollicking around and then claim repentance each time they sin if they were “just friends.” Their’s started out meeting in a family restaraunt. How pathetic. I hope they both have checked in with God and cleared their slate and live the right life.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:35 pm
Wow!!! My wife is in denial of this “emotional connection” and is trying to find anything I do as manuplative and controlling and she is blaming me for it all. I wish I could catch her so she knows I know. She feels she is doing nothing wrong. Yet I know she is cheating and I will be blamed for it all anyway. Hard to let go…. trying to love me more. She needs to grow up and I hope she does before its tooo late. opps, there I go again worrying about her again. This is hard. I pray for any one going through this that they are able to love themselves more. Peace, D.
November 5th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Just remember these ‘friends’ turn into more eventually and they end up having a ‘lull’ in their relationship too. Spouses having these kind of affairs break up families, hurt alot of people and in the end wind up realizing they are right back in the same position they were in in their marriage only now they are stuck with maintenance, child support and alot of hurt innocent people.
November 5th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
My husband is having one of these affairs and continually denies it. He won’t come close to me, but has a “secret” mobile phone (which I have found out about), and as he is away all week (he is a truck driver) he is able to tell me lies about where he is. Unfortunately he has been taken in to hospital with appendicitis, and I had to get his things from his lorry which of course has given me the evidence now to go for divorce as tachographs and long blond hairs everywhere have proved him to be a liar. As in the above posting, a simple sexual affair would have been easier to get over, but my life has been a nightmare for the past year. One good thing – I have lost 3 stone and I am more confident about myself and know now I can face life on my own and I am looking forward to it!!
November 5th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
I’ve had an emotional affair. An awful lot of rationalizing goes on. I looked for reasons to blame my husband and rationalized he had something like this coming to him (he had cheated me so many times with lies — or at the very least thoughtless mistakes he should have known were untrue cuz he just made up what he wanted to believe was true — and cheated me so badly financially which I pretty much define as any adult who costs you more money than what you’d be spending on your own if you were paying for everything — and that’s excluding educational costs. It’s just fine and dandy to pay for someone as if he’s your own child your responsible for if it’s ok with the person paying, but it’s not OK if it’s already been made clear that the other person expects you to be paying for certain expenses, and it’s certainly NOT ok if the person creating the expenses for the other person to pay lies money issues). I rationalized I’d let him do the same and told him so. We had settled for each other when we married, and neither of us had gotten to experience the romantic high of truly loving someone (I guess it’s lust) and feeling that love back.(We had disclosed to each other that neither of us was head over heels in love with the other before we married. We agreed ours was a “slow love” and if it got better, wonderful; and if it did not, what we had was good enough. I guess premarital counseling failed us in that respect. Biblically Paul makes it pretty clear you ought not marry unless lustfully you can’t help youselves). But I told myself that the little bits of romantic highs few and far between that we experienced together would be enough for me. And then I changed my mind — went against the covenant I had made with myself, my husband, and God, and to all people my behavior of cheating within my marriage would harm. I wanted to experience that feeling of love just once and rationalized it’d be OK (though better if I didn’t) if there wasn’t the physical act of adultery. As for my friend I had the affair with, I was experiencing guilt which I also used as a rationalization for that an emotional affair was OK. Things had happened in the past that kept my friend and I apart (before I was married)and I wanted to do something to try to at least somewhat make right what we had lost because of the wrongs that kept us apart in the past. Also the fact that I was being open with my husband about it all I used for rationalization that it was OK. And there were so many other rationalizations as well. Yet of course I sensed what I was doing was wrong. But at the same time there was a sense just as strong that not to be doing it given the circumstances would be wrong. Yet, I told myself that rationalizing that it’s the right thing to do might be what everyone does who gets caught up in an affair. So I read and read and read and read about it, and I still read about it. I was looking for if there was reason that my selfishness (if it existed and of course it did) was making me not face up to that I was being a typical (there is no other type I can think of now) cheating horrible person seeking the pleasures of lust regardless of who they hurt including the person they are cheating with. Yet, that’s not tyical of an affair. People fall into affairs because they do love each other yet the married person feels obligated not to end their marriage (hopefully because they love their spouse)– and guilt is a typical reason for affairs to happen. People who’d cheat on their spouse’s angered me so much, yet I became that person. The Bible explains it clearly in Jeremiah (3:11 in particular) that a person who cheats is worse than the person who divorces and marries another (and divorcing and marrying another is adultery as Jesus has said Mt.5:32)which means that cheating is worse than commiting the physical act of adultery. As for my friend I’ve had the emotional affair with — I’ve prayed and prayed and prayed for him (and so have his friends). He met someone he’s more in love with than he’s ever been in love with anyone in his life. She loves him so much as well and I’m thinking it’s also more than she’s ever loved anyone in her life. They have a church and a pastor and a wedding date set even though they aren’t officially engaged yet but that’s planned to happen within the next two months. I’m very thankful his friends were praying for him because I feel so attached to my sin it felt as though God wouldn’t be hearing me. I hope that’s not true, but it’s felt that way. Emotional affairs are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. But I guess being perhaps the overly open-minded person that I am, I have read of possible exception to this is two people who love each other very much who have nothing physical going on and who love their spouses more (of course!) and realize they’d never get along as a married couple but love being friends and their spouses don’t have a problem with the friendship — and I’d hope of course that there isn’t lustful thoughts going on either. Hmmm, I guess I’ve had similar friendships to that, one in particular. Only the one in particular would I classify as maybe an emotional affair and my other friendships I would not. But the emotional affair I did experience was definitely an emotional affair and it was cheating even though physical act of adultery didn’t happen. It was WRONG, and it was MY fault, not my husband’s. Things he did wrong were wrong and unjustifiable, but that certainly doesn’t justify cheating on him. I’m so thankful my friend has found someone he loves so much who loves him back. My husband and I had the privilege to meet her (though my husband was NOT thrilled about doing that so I probably should have turned down the invitation, though my husband has said afterward that he’s glad he’s met them).
November 5th, 2006 at 5:38 pm
I could sign under you article and both comments. Emotional affair is on expense of family.Scheduled phone calls at night when everybody is asleep, secret e-mails, letters from vacations and secret trips. Meantime the faithful partner does all the work and worries sick why s/he is so unhappy. Information fed to partner is manipulated to create crisis and draw attention to issues that are totaly meangless. In my case my husband kept in touch with every woman he was attracted to in the past. After many years some of them got divorced, some lost partners and ‘freidships’ became more intense. When confronted he said I was obsessed, these women were thousands miles away (Australia, Poland)
It is surprising that so many people show the same paterns of behaviour. I didn’t read the signs because i was very busy working, raising children and running houshold.When i discovered what was happening i started to read a lot and found out that my husband fit symptoms of borderline personality. Unfortunately it was too late; i scared him already with my confrntations, he started to protect his privacy even more and withdrew compeltely. I wasted four years. In my opinion when they withdraw and are scared they are like ‘Black Holes’ for partner’s emotions and energy, all you try to do is succed in and wasted. These problems have to be solved by third person, a therapist perhaps, because these people can’t talk with partners, they fight anf flight. It almost looks like they are afraid that more of their infidelity would be discovered. Also i agree 100% that however they need care they are scared of intimacy.
November 5th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
After close to 25 years of marriage, living through two of my husband’s previous affairs (the two that I know about!) – I decided that I would leave when I learned of his “just friends” affair. I found calling cards, meal receipts, cell bills, flower and gift receipts…through my investigating skills learned from the previous affairs! The final straw for me was when confronted and presented with the evidence collected, he told me that she was a “really neat gal” (guess that I was chopped liver!). I have gone through therapy and marriage counselling previously, read endless “self-help” books to understand how this could happen to me and my family (I waited until the children were gone before I too was gone). From this process, I have grown to understand the emotions and stages that the “faithful” go through in trying to keep their marriages and family together and the traits of a cheater.
In the end I feel sorry for my husband that he has not found internal peace. I wanted to tell the OP that she wasn’t the first, nor would she be the last. I too feel sorry for the OP’s husband and teen children as I know that they are struggling with the emotions. (The OP has had numerous affairs also).
It’s unfortunate that “cheaters” can not be honest with their emotions and fears and are unable to communicate properly as they do not realize how they affect their families and friends with their own selfishness and lack of discretion. But I know that I can wake up each morning and look in the mirror and be proud of who and what I am.
November 5th, 2006 at 7:51 pm
I found out my husband was having a emotional/ sexual affair with several women 18 months ago. The hard part is some of these women never go away, because they work for the same company. I can say these type of affairs destroy families. You never seem to forget all of the times you tried to get them to talk to you and pay attention to you, when along they were giving it to someone else and had nothing left for you. How can you compete with someone who makes your husband think he is so wonderful, because they don’t have to clean after him or deal with the problems in his life. He tells me to get over this happened 2 yrs ago, but I found a email that he sent to her saying she was his “Rock” all he could say was that I was making more out of than I should have – I can say this it’s not the pretty women these men are having affairs with but the plain women who make them feel like a prince because were to busy taking care of him, his children and his home.
November 5th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
I have been struggling with my wife’s emotional/Possible physical affair for around 90 to 120 days – we were separating, and then I found out she was happily leaving to check out this new thing….. at first all I did was see my side of it.. and there was a lot of it… I only took the blame for my part of it… she knows she has created a mess… but now says she needs more time to decide what she wants.. I broke all of the rules, became a wuss, begged, pleaded, reasoned, pressured, the same stuff other humans do – but now, she still has not reached any decision – cannot make a rational decision – and I understand that – although it hurts me deeply – but I said, hey, I am moving on, don’t call me anymore – and I have acted happy and positive and understanding and have not even taken the bait to discuss us getting back together… because she always says things like “oh, I got the copy of my lease today” or something to draw me back in = but there is never any decisiveness – so as much as it hurt, and with a smile – I said you’re in a very tough position – I understand – I am moving on – and I hope that things work out for you – we only share a dog – so there will be very minimal contact – I have stopped answering my cell when she calls- and you know what all of these gurus are on to something…. she may not come around, but it is the best thing you can do.. let them have their way and do not even for a second let them see you sweat – it sounds like a game – and I guess it is… but we’re humans, we all play em’. And it works – don’t argue, accuse, ask for what you want – it is the best chance you have to move on yourself – and it is the best chance you have to get them back… the one thing she keeps saying that I don’t understand at all is this — I want to come back, but then sometimes I don’t and I don’t know what’s holding me back, can’t you just give me another 2 weeks to think about things??? we’ve done that one about 4 times.. it never resolves itself… so the worst part is the pain… I have not fig. out how to get it to leave… she keeps saying well I hope when I am ready to come back I have not lost you yet… crazy… sorry am I way off the topic? But for anyone involved in this… let go, and even when it kills you – do not let them see anything other than you are very pleased with how things are going… it takes all the wind out of their sails….. maybe that does not fit all situations.. but for some it will…… thanks…
November 5th, 2006 at 9:26 pm
After many painful years, my husband has finally made a break from the OP. It was pretty much to the point of her or me and he said he couldn’t ever lose me. However, life isn’t going very well. While I no longer see her calls on the cell phone bills, or get a busy signal when I call him at certain times, it doesn’t feel that much better. I feel like he has to earn my trust and respect again. I’m not sure he understands at all. It is still all about him. He is mourning the loss of this relationship. Yet he doesn’t seem to have a clue how to get past it. When I try to have a discussion about my needs, he lists all that he has done and is doing for me! It was almost better when he felt guilty and treated me like a queen. I am still working with the ideas from Break Free and continue to try to keep my focus clear. I don’t think he had any intention of seeing the OP again, but I frankly will not be surprised if he does. That really will be it for me. I am at a time in my life when I really would rather have my self-respect than a partner who can’t seem to see beyond his own needs. I have held on for a long time, but my resolve and patience are growing thin. Hope is running low…
November 5th, 2006 at 10:31 pm
I just want to say that an OP will never be a “really neat person”. A “Really Neat Person” is someone who respects them selves, respects the boundaries of a marriage and does not step out of their marriage to solve the problems within their marriage. It drives me crazy to have people, my spouse included tell me certain people are really neat and nice and how I would really like them if I got to know them. I don’t know about some of you, but I would find it very hard to be friends with someone who principles are completely opposite of mine. I choose not to be associated with “cheaters” and to condone their behavior, no matter how they want to justify it. Let’s face it, today people will justify anything just to continue their behavior. Wrong is wrong, cheaters need to stop blaming everyone else for their own behavior, and accept the consequences to their actions!!! And, finally for those of you who haven’t being dealing with this for very long…it really hurts and it does effect everything you do moving forward. My hope is that I have hide the hurt from my son and that someday he will grow up with my principles not his fathers.
November 6th, 2006 at 1:18 am
I can relate to “Dee” and what she may be going through or have gone through. I spent many years protecting my cheating spouse from our families and friends due to embarassment or not wanting to feel like I had “failed” in my ability to keep the marriage together. I came to realize that I could not change him or his behaviour and that I had to start being “good to me”. My husband always used to say “birds of a feather flock together” and I came to notice that a lot of his closest friends and OP’s had the same traits as he does.
I gave up on the investigating because I knew that I would find the “goods” on him and besides, I was wasting a lot of time and energy looking for what I already knew what was going on. The part that I had to overcome was the denial, hurt and pain. Eventually that does go with time. It is the same feeling as mourning a death of a loved one.
The more that I opened up to family and friends, letting them know what was REALLY going on and not being ashamed of feeling like a failure, the easier it was to deal with the hurt and pain and my ability to move on with life. I thought that I was able to protect my children from seeing or knowing what their father was doing, but I was wrong…they had known all along and used to think that they were the reason that we weren’t getting along. This has put a strain on their relationship with him – which is his problem, not mine. I was not willing to protect him any longer. Having open and honest communication with my children (they are young adults now) has only strengthened my relationship with them and I hope that I am able to be a positive influence in their relationships with others.
Life is all about choices, the consequences and accountability for one’s actions. We know the difference between right and wrong….it is the path that we choose that makes the difference in our’s and others’ lives.
November 6th, 2006 at 1:31 am
I ended my marriage after 10 years but not because of my affair…i met a man on line married as well…unhappy as myself…keeps telling me he is going to leave his wife but is trying to work through some issues first….we haven’t seen each other for a year but keep in touch daily by phone or emails…we live in different countries but i feel i’m in love with this man…he helps me financially every month because he can…but i’m still waiting for him and not sure how long i have to wait…i told him if he can make his marriage work to do it…i’ll be there as a friend secretly if he needs one but make it work if that is a possibility…he says he’s been unhappy for years and he’s leaving her…i’m so unsure what to do….how do i deal with this do i walk away from it or do i wait and keep waiting for him to come to me….or will he is the question….everytime the time gets near that he says he’s leaving there always seems to be another reason not to….am i crazy am I a bad person for keeping in touch or am i just totally confused….i have no idea what i am…i just wish i could get on with my life and let him go or do i keep waiting…just feel like i’ve met my soul mate and to let him go is the hardest thought i can have. please if anyone has any advice please negative or positive i’ll accept….thanks
November 6th, 2006 at 2:25 am
About 18 months ago, I was led to believe my wife was exactly in the situation described, unfortunately I was misled that her friends were in America and unwittingly I arranged for to stay with my brother in Australia as we were on the point of emigrating to Australia. She disappeared, now I heard she has bought a house with her Australian b/f and I am stuck in the UK running our business. Neither of our boys who were very close to her joined her in her new life. The younger who was with me now decided to go to the University and elected to have year round accommodation at the hall of residence. The elder son with his partner couldn’t bring himself to visit his mum whilst he was in Australia enroute to New Zealand. They have now returned to the UK and are currently staying with me, temporary. My wife and I are still in contact, she rang and by emails. She wouldn’t let me have her residential number and only answer her mobile at her convenience (I think). Yes, she has also suffered a trauma whilst she was a minor with her step father. She told me of the incident shortly after we were engaged some 26 years ago.
For the past year and more I have been schooled to Loving What Is by Katie Byran, giving in and How to Fall Out of Love.
Question to you Dr Bob, how do I ever hope to reunite the family now?
November 6th, 2006 at 5:24 am
It’s interesting how the memory of the intense pain never goes away. It has been almost 4 years since I discoverd my cheating partner’s behaviour. The first OP was excrutiatingly scary because I actually met her and showed her how much of a basket case I was over this whole afair. She was equally confused as to why he lied to her, anyways, it turned out that once I exposed the truth to him, he accused her of lying and blamed her etc etc and then he escalated another affair with another OP. Like he was trying to prove he was a man or something. But this new OP became a true ‘just friends” emotional affair. I lost my self those two years and never want to go throught that feeling again. I mean I never want to feel like that again, and yet the memory sometimes resurfaces and boom there I am in the pain, boy o boy I could forgive but never forget. When I read the break free..I was shocked at my past reactions to his affairs. I did everything that I should’nt have. But I survived the anguish. Today i do not trust him, at all, and I’m not bitter, i just know when he’s lying to me and look at him with the “oh this again” look…in fact I expect this to happen again, (he is a clasic, “I can’t say no”) and I see now that I am his stability. I don’t really care about him anymore, I can’t because if I do let my guard down, then that’s when I’ll get hurt again.
And I refuse to experience the shock of another OP in his life. Sometime I just keep moving along with the things in my life in the hopes that he will just grow through his insecurities and not involve my heart. I am so greatful for this blog, I can’t even begin to tell you how many days and nights I’ve been alone with my lonelyness in this mess. It’s another day, and I’m greatful for my life, my chidren, my health and the faith in God to help me through another day. I pray that the other OP will not get hurt, because he tends to build them up, make promises, give them money and then let them down, which makes them go crazy with rage. He returns to me and my calmess and stability and strength to which he says I’m so in love with you. can I puke? jee wiz, I like him alot, just like the OP yet I guess I love him, I’m just not so trusting of his love anymore. it’s like the story of the woman and the snake, you know the one where he bites her and she’s shocked and he goes well i’m a snake what do you expect…anyways, i have dreams and iam trying to live them out and the more i live them the more he wants me and i beleive he will never leave me, he will always tell me how much he loves me. It’s a pity, because it sounds like I’m allowing this to take place. I’m like that woman who just turns her head…aH not so, I’ve hurt myself those past 2 years and it took me two more years to figure mysefl out and I know how to love myself now and take good care of my heart and nurture my life. I pray for the OP that she will have clear boundaries when she finds out I exists. God bless her I hope she is as strong as me.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:48 am
My partner of 16 years and I split over what started as the classic “emotional affair”. She had the affair with someone I considered one of my best friends. We all spent time at our second home together, football games, social gatherings, etc. When the OP and her partner officially split, none of them told me and we all continued to hang out together. They continued living together. After 16 years, my partner said she was no longer in love with me. She loved me and cared about me very deeply, but was no longer “in love”. I saw the amount of interest and time she spent with the OP. I looked at a cell phone bill which showed over 225 calls in one month to the OP, yet she continued to deny anything was going on. She claimed they were simply friends and that she was helping the OP though a difficult time. She would walk our dogs and I could see her coming down the street on the cell phone. We would be out for dinner and she’d excuse herself to use the restroom. She’s sit down the street in her car on the phone, thinking I didn’t know any of this was going on. The cell phone bill showed calls during these times when I thought we were spending our time together. No matter what I did to try to work through what I thought our problems and mine might be, it didn’t matter. The OP was always there running interference. When I discussed the fact that I thought my partner was having an emotional affair, she clained she didn’t know what that meant and had never heard of it. We tried counseling and she came to the sessions in a less than honest mode. We need to face it, the emotional affair is THE most damaging type of affair. It is virtually impossible to get your partner to focus on anything but themselves and the OP. I learned that all you can do is to focus on yourself and make yourself a better person. I found both my partner and the OP to be extremely selfish people who live for drama. Life truly is a soap opera for them. My partner once said to me during our break-up that “if we’re meant to be our hearts will find each other again”. I ended up moving out approximately 8 mos. after I discovered the affair. The two of them are still together….
November 6th, 2006 at 11:47 am
Hmmm…
After reading many of the posts here and seeing both sides of the coin and having lived on both sides at one time or another (emotionally speaking) this will be difficult for me to relay. However I have decided to just be truthful (my one quality that nobody will ever take from me) as I expect the world arond me to be. That being said … to all the cheaters out there who will try and lie to their dying day and NEVER unveil the entire truths that should be on full display …. GROW UP and STOP trying to make excuses or justify what you have, are and will probably do again in the future! Our spouses provided reasons in many cases to blame them for the ill feelings toward our marriages but that in no way, what so ever gives you the right to justify cheating on them. I had to learn this the hard way and over the course of 16 years of marriage (three children) we have both had our emotional flings on more than one occassion. I and my wife also tried to justify my behavior much the same as most of you have and believe me, I was as you are wrong to do it. It doesn’t matter if the spouse your cheating on is abusive, uncaring or with drawn … leave them! Cheating (emotionally or physically) is your decission and nobody has any responsibility for you making that choice but YOU! I discovered my wife having an emotion affair over a year ago on just prior to our 15th anneversary and let me tell you it was an awakening for me. I can’t explain it, words don’t justify the changes I decided to put myself through but I decided to grow up, recognize what I had but ignored all along and do something about it. That included my children, wife and the world around me. To coin a phrase of “make lemonade out of lemons” this was it for me. I decided to find a blessing in disguise in my wifes affair by sticking with her and my marriage. I went through and still relive mnany of the ultra vulgar chat sessions I discovered between them, the scars I will carry for life. Granted, the two emotional affairs I encountered for myself in the past were NOT close encounters, they were all long distance affairs but affairs just the same. When I discovered my wife was having one with a co-worker, sneaking off to lunches together, meetings after work for coffee and such and having her lie about it and try and cover it up by making me feel like the problem, like I was out of my mind or making things up in my head .. when she fianally admitted emotional involvement (over a yerar later) after promising to break it off and failing 6 or 7 times to keep her word. Believe me, I relive everything each day and have to find something inside myself to even come home afterwork on some days. Just driving past the sign indicating the OP’s frig’n homne town gets me irrate and hateful but I made a decission to forgive my wife and trust her one last time and she has agtreed to consoling and of course to never speak or commuinicate with the other ass!!!! again. I fully expect for her to lie again to me, but I also expect her to keep her word.. call it a defense mechanism but we are doing very well these days and I do see her back in my marriage and working with me to reunite what has been lost, she has never been here before through all of this like she is now. There is hope, hang in there
peace, Ron
November 6th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
Its never over. Its been 4 yrs since my spouse of 26yrs and I have separated. We had six children together who were fairly young at the time the two youngest being 4 and 5. He had never had an affair before that I knew of but was always looking at other women and obsessed by porno mags and videos, sadly the other women he was always looking at were young age 16 to 25. We had children close to that age and was hard for me to understand what the obsession with young women was. He became engaged in an emotional affair with a young girl who was only 18 and of course it led to more like her becoming pregnant. Even as she was pregnant he continued to claim they were only friends and that he should be allowed to have friends. He was 42 at the time and I should think that with 6 children a relationship like this was absurd. For the first year we barely seen him as he was in la la land not being able to deal with his feelings and every time he did visit us he continued to lead me to believe he was coming back and that we would get through this and that he loved me etc etc. Of course I grew tired of hearing this and nothing happend and as life goes someone had to be responsible especially with so many children involved. On his last visit to me ten months after he left he told me he loved me and couldnt live without me what he had done was wrong and that he was going to come back with both barrels loaded and the proof would be in the pudding etc etc all the whild crying like a baby of how sorry he was.I told him that this wasnt the first time he had said those things and that if what he said was true that time would tell I invited him to visit the children the following night to which he was very quiet and it was the last time we saw him for the following 2 yrs. Those promises came just before she had her baby and he eventually denied saying any of those things to me whatsoever. I can understand if people want to move on but it is really unfair to keep that person on a string in an emotional knot just because they are. I tried to contact him for the first six months to which he would not answer anything in fact his girlfriend answered the phone one time and asked me if I had nothing better to do than to call hime and that I should go feed my fucking kids. By this time she was 20 there is 23 yrs difference in age so I can clearly see the imaturity in her comments but considering she was having her own you would think she would realize they are his responsibility as well. He eventually seeked contact with the children some of which were willing to see him and some who were not. He of course used everything he could to justify what he did to earn their love back like him and I never had a relationship and he was not perfect and to blame me or my lawyer for the circumstances. He in fact abandoned us but denies it to this day. Will he ever realize the truth He has since married this girl and there child is now 3 and they profess to have this wonderful relationship and marraige. I am beside myself to think a man of that age can just walk away from such a large family and not look back or be concerned about their daily lives. While we were fed to the dogs for the 2 yrs we never saw or heard from him he eventually started to write them letters of how much he loved them etc. I personally think he is still in denial of what he did and will probably never own up to any of it because if he did then he would have to face the truth about himself. It is a classic midlife and clearly fit in to the fell out of love I love you but am not in love with you. Of course I was left with no life work to feed all these children at a time when they needed me to be there for them. I gave him 6 kids in 9 and a half yrs and was going through my own postpartem stresses when he left I had to put myself aside and be there for everyone but me. But in the end I have been robbed of my motherhood among other things and I am in a position where how do I move on when there are so many to take care of who would want a woman with this many kids. How can I forgive someone who has not asked it . when they cannot be truthful about themselves. Now all they want to do is created a new family environment and involve these children and cart them to counselling to force them to adjust to the way things are. They do not want counselling as they dont feel there is anything wrong with them, they dont trust him and have no faith in who he is. A couple of the older children do see him and it is strictly a visiting relationship and clearly not a parent child relationship. He only sees them 2 days out of 30, never offers anything toward their life. His wages are garnished at 700 a month for all of us so he thinks he is doing his part. This does not even buy us groceries let alone anything else but he believes love will get him through and now that he has a new life and a new family he doesnt have to face the reality of what he has done to the rest of us. He has it all a new woman a new family and his old family when he wants. so he lives the life of riley wile I am the one who has been given all the responsibility of raising and providing for them yet he gets to be the hero. Thats why it will never be over for me . I feel as hard as I try to find a new life it is almost impossible because I have to put the kids first. How can I bail them out when he has then what is left but a bunch of mixed up adults. He tries to make the kids pity him and for those who do see him he makes them feel sorry for him so they will adjust to his life. and for those who dont he makes them feel like they should be counselled to fit into his ideal of his new life. and sway their morals to his. All I really want is some kind of life for myself I have ruled out being with someone for the obvious reasons but dont know how to develop a new life and earn money for them at the same time its such a trap for me with no way out. I keep thinking one day he will realize what an ass he is and help but as long as they have this wonderful relationship that is not likely to happen because it justifies it all and makes it ok but it is not okay for those who were fed to the dogs. I feel like I have been murdered alive if that makes any sense and would love nothing more than to make him see what he has done. I do not want him back because anyone who could do those things and have no compassion or respect is no one I want to be with. I never knew he was capable of this behavior and I am sure she helped to make him this way. Nothing would have been better than to separate amicalbly and respectfully so for anyone out there reading this who is thinking of doing this to their family have some dignity for the life you lived with this person and find enough respect for them and your children to take the proper steps to get out of the marraige.
November 6th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
I am in the same possition that you are in and the lies, denial, hurt, pain of another woman in the relationship are not acceptable to me, he knows this and his behavior is horrible. He takes her out and I get chopped liver I am always home and you are right we are thier rocks as they have nothing stable in what they are thinking or doing it is a mess for sure. I like you have heard it all, we are just friends and there are many kinds of love but I will always love you and I don’t want you to leave and our love is so deep and I have told this other person this is not a life long thing. Who are they fooling, themselves, they have got themselves into something for the most part because they wanted to not because someone broke thier arm, all the classic BS to justify what they have done and the guilt here is unbelieveable but he cannot face up to what he has done to me and won’t take any responsibility for his actions, his only commet was “I did not know this would hurt you the way it has” what did he expect me to do give him a pat on the back and say great job done!!!! I do not want to see this other woman hurt and I told him, “do yo have any idea what or how she feels she does not want you to leave her home and come to where I am anymore than I want you to be with her”, he does not get it and I know the pain she must also feel as I know in my heart he has not been honest with her either. The change in him is so great it is like I am living with a stranger and I hate it and will never trust him again so I have been doing things for me and me alone I am not sleeping with anyone else as I have desire to do that I have more respect for myself and when people say something to me I just tell them the truth I have been done hiding the fact of what he is doing and everyone knows and I don’t care. I love this man but I will never trust him again and you are right forgiving is another story but forgeting all the pain he has caused will never go away and sooner or later I feel he will just leave no matter what he says and I don’t care anymore I will be better off without him in the long run and I know this. I have gained allot more strengh out of all this than I ever knew I had and I like it and I am also different and less caring about what he does because he broke the bond not me and it is nice not to be the guilty party. I am just so tired of all the lies and dishonesty I could throw up and good luck to the both of them because sooner or later he will do the same thing to her, and don’t think for a second she does not think that also. Once a cheater always a cheater!!!!!!! I have found out so much it makes me sick!!!! If they need and feed each other they are both weak people, that kind of emotional support from another woman thier man hood must be such question. They are both emotional cripples!!!!! Him for cheating and the tramp for going with a man that has been with someone for 18 years. He said I have not made her any promises and things are just the way they are but no woman sticks it out for 2 years without hope of the end result being her and we both know that, she is younger than I am and allot smarter to all this as this is my first go around with something like this in my life and it is just plain sad they have no clue what they have really done to me nor do they care it is all about them, how selfish both are him for his self gratfication and her for believeing all the lies he has no doubt told her and me. Could you imagine if we ever talked since I know who she is now as I saw them together can you just let your mind wander to that extent. How sad to ruin someone’s life but Karma is a great thing and I will have to do nothing because sooner or later they will self distruct themselves and when they hit rock bottom and it will happen to them it’s all just a matter of time and I may or may not be here but whatever I really don’t care as I am so angry with it all I am not willing to pick up the left overs he will come home with. I like being the only one and I do not CHEAT nor break promises to those that I love and care about!!!! Good Luck to us all we are all pretty much on the same page with events in our lives and it is devestating for all of us in our own ways and this site lets you vent and I am grateful for that. God Bless Everyone
November 6th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
I am in the same possition that you are in and the lies, denial, hurt, pain of another woman in the relationship are not acceptable to me, he knows this and his behavior is horrible. He takes her out and I get chopped liver I am always home and you are right we are thier rocks as they have nothing stable in what they are thinking or doing it is a mess for sure. I like you have heard it all, we are just friends and there are many kinds of love but I will always love you and I don’t want you to leave and our love is so deep and I have told this other person this is not a life long thing. Who are they fooling, themselves, they have got themselves into something for the most part because they wanted to not because someone broke thier arm, all the classic BS to justify what they have done and the guilt here is unbelieveable but he cannot face up to what he has done to me and won’t take any responsibility for his actions, his only commet was “I did not know this would hurt you the way it has” what did he expect me to do give him a pat on the back and say great job done!!!! I do not want to see this other woman hurt and I told him, “do yo have any idea what or how she feels she does not want you to leave her home and come to where I am anymore than I want you to be with her”, he does not get it and I know the pain she must also feel as I know in my heart he has not been honest with her either. The change in him is so great it is like I am living with a stranger and I hate it and will never trust him again so I have been doing things for me and me alone I am not sleeping with anyone else as I have desire to do that I have more respect for myself and when people say something to me I just tell them the truth I have been done hiding the fact of what he is doing and everyone knows and I don’t care. I love this man but I will never trust him again and you are right forgiving is another story but forgeting all the pain he has caused will never go away and sooner or later I feel he will just leave no matter what he says and I don’t care anymore I will be better off without him in the long run and I know this. I have gained allot more strengh out of all this than I ever knew I had and I like it and I am also different and less caring about what he does because he broke the bond not me and it is nice not to be the guilty party. I am just so tired of all the lies and dishonesty I could throw up and good luck to the both of them because sooner or later he will do the same thing to her, and don’t think for a second she does not think that also. Once a cheater always a cheater!!!!!!! I have found out so much it makes me sick!!!! If they need and feed each other they are both weak people, that kind of emotional support from another woman thier man hood must be such question. They are both emotional cripples!!!!! Him for cheating and the tramp for going with a man that has been with someone for 18 years. He said I have not made her any promises and things are just the way they are but no woman sticks it out for 2 years without hope of the end result being her and we both know that, she is younger than I am and allot smarter to all this as this is my first go around with something like this in my life and it is just plain sad they have no clue what they have really done to me nor do they care it is all about them, how selfish both are him for his self gratfication and her for believeing all the lies he has no doubt told her and me. Could you imagine if we ever talked since I know who she is now as I saw them together can you just let your mind wander to that extent. How sad to ruin someone’s life but Karma is a great thing and I will have to do nothing because sooner or later they will self distruct themselves and when they hit rock bottom and it will happen to them it’s all just a matter of time and I may or may not be here but whatever I really don’t care as I am so angry with it all I am not willing to pick up the left overs he will come home with. I like being the only one and I do not CHEAT nor break promises to those that I love and care about!!!! Good Luck to us all we are all pretty much on the same page with events in our lives and it is devestating for all of us in our own ways and this site lets you vent and I am grateful for that. God Bless Everyone
November 6th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
Shennie:
Hang in there darling…sounds like you will be okay. I do not have to tell you that “Life ain’t fair!” sounds like you know.
But what you do know is that those kids need you more than anything especially now. For now it is all about them and I encourage you to take pride in their growth and achievements.
Please spend no more time worrying about your Ex because he does not deserve any of your energy whatsoever. He lied to you and your kids. What is even worse is he started another family with someone else and strunf you along the whole time.
No doubt he was feeling guilty when he was around you, but that sounds like the only time really. Sounds like he was playing both sides of the fence and telling the OP many horrible stories about you to help solidify his position with her.
So here is what I want you to do:
1) Straighten up and hold your head up high. You should be proud of your actions during these tough times. Show everyone that you are proud and strong … most importantly your kids.
2) Treat yourself when you can. I think what most of us here can tell you is “You have to take care of You!”
3) Don’t let him influence your kids. I know his type…when they finish visiting him….debrief them. Let them know that his behavior and actions have brought your family to this point.
Let them understand the difference between your resposibility and his lack of maturity and respect.
4) Seek Self Improvement – this will increase your overall self-worth. During this period he will start to find you more attractive, but he is not worthy remember that!
5) Once you feel okay and you heal … go on a date! Yup go a date! Enjoy yourself and let your hair down. I’m sure someone finds you to be beautiful and is wanting to ask you out. It is okay when you are ready.
6) Face facts … you two are over and it is indeed better for you. Go ahead with your life. Remember life is a grand journey filled with many wonders. I would not trade mine for anything…the good and the bad. We here believe in you!
November 6th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
Sandy:
I know you are hurting but you must stop and be calm!
When “D-Day” happened to me I was a emotional wreck and for me it was tough to deal with. Men are taught to be strong and do not show any emotion. Additionally, I am a former Marine so I I try not to show any pain. But I did and I did all the things you should not do.
First of all…Do you still love him? If so, then you have a basis to work from. If he loves you and is willing to end it then you two can start the healing process. It will be long and difficult one…my wife and I are on it and we have our good days and bad days. If he will not end it then you must “Buck Up!” and do what Dr. Bob says to the letter.
First leave or ask him to get out. And become “Neutral” towards him. Do not show him any emotions or anything whatsoever. He must come back to you and be willing to open up completely and be transparent in order to regain what you two have lost.
Also, be into you Sandy. You deserve it and it is okay to be good to you. Do not honor him or pine for him it gives him power over you and he has done enough. Remember he abused your trust and he is the one who must work to regain it on your terms not his.
I am sure you are one dynamite lady with much to offer the right person. So do not despair…his lost will be someone’s gain. They might be worthy of your love!
Give him one chance … if he does not take it “Move On!”
November 6th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Phoenix:
I mostly wanted to reply to you man. It has been as long for me also. Finding out about my wifes affair “shook my world” and “hurt me to the core”. I would be lying to you if I told you that it did not.
I think women are “emotional warriors” they have been taught to be in touch with their feelings and emotions. But men are not…we have to be stotic and strong. Also, when you learn that your wife or GF is seeing another man it is a blow to your male ego ain’t it? This is something we cannot take on a base almost primal level. I wanted to challenge the OP to a duel at dawn … LOL!
First of all you are no wuss…believe me I did the same things you have. Broke all the rules and tried to bring my wife to her senses . But when your wife is in an emotional affair you have to realize the lure is strong … very strong!
The emotions with the sex if is “good sex” is a tough one to break for women. You might have the “double whammy” going there man. I know I did…my wife was into this guy for 6 months and they were getting stronger man…it was scary!
She had told her friend she really liked and had feelings for the guy and was having the “best sex of her life”. I thought man how do I compete with that? He is younger and more studly than me…I am done. But I got armed with knowledge my man and started to apply what I had learned.
I let her know my true feelings under control and worked on myself to help me get my feelings of betrayal under control.
For me it was the images that I was seeing when I closed my eyes. They were haunting me continuously and it was driving me to drink…for real!
I believe part of your wife wants to be with you and part of her wants to be into the OP. You cannot demand that she stop…she must want this to happen on her own. The fact that she keeps putting off a decision I must say does not bode well for you two. The longer you two are not together the longer she will become accustomed to her freedom.
You have to realize it is not about her but you man. Prepare yourself for both scenarios life with her and without her. Either way self-improvement I have found is the key. I am happy with me and I am working on all the things I had put off for so long.
My wife has shown remorse for her actions (not enough..I think but we are working on it) and she has ended her affair with the OP. It is tough and we have ups and downs in this process.
The other day I was thinking that I cannot make it with her…but we were able to talk it thru. We reaffirmed our commitment to each other and let each other know we were willing to work it out…Taking it day by day for now.
Your wife is not at that point yet and you have to face the fact she might never get there. While it will be painful and hurt you will go on. If you do separate for good then you will meet someone that will make you love and believe again.
Do not let this jade you or make you bitter. Men are not measured by how many women they have nor are you less of one because your wife has strayed. In fact my friend you are more of a man by responding to this crisis with true emotions, seeking knowledge and understanding which will ultimately give way to forgiveness. Forgiveness they say is the the highest form of LOVE one can attain…that is deep stuff!
Good Luck and Keep the Faith!
November 6th, 2006 at 7:35 pm
My husband has a co-worker friend from a job he recently left that he won’t give up even though he knows it causes me pain.
He says they’re just friends, get over it, be an adult,etc.
I can’t believe this is happening and I’m wondering more and more how much he’s involved.
She’s at least 15 years younger, recently divorced, and they have common interests that I don’t share with my husband not to mention she has qualities he finds attractive. He says he’s stopped communicating with her at my request but lied to me about getting emails from her. So who knows how much contact they are having . I know she calls his cell or emails him weekly wanting to get together and catch up, have coffee, lunch, dinner.
Now he resents me for wanting to talk about this friendship and some things that happened when I was a little clueless. Like refusing to leave her divorce party with me and staying 2 more hours with her and 3 couples who were her best friends. He returned from a week away just to go to this party.
I know he is hurting and lost after his mother’s death a year ago and I don’t want to give up on him and our family.
How can he not see this is dangerous to our marriage? Yes our marriage has problems and he says he wants to work it out and he doesn’t see that this friendship has anything to do with it. I’m worried that our marriage will slip away if in his pain he turns to her with her undivided attention and carefree lifestyle over me in the house, kids, 30 years of ups and downs. I am so sad.
Will Dr. Bob’s book help me get over the constant sick feeling I have about this?
November 6th, 2006 at 9:56 pm
I am going thru a horrible period in my marriage. We have had ruff times, tuff times but emotional infidelity has tested us the most. I found 2 months of text messages on his cell phone to a woman. He claims she is a “client”, he plays it off like its a work thing….but I’d be a fool to take a blind eye to it. Now I deal with the head games, where I am accused of making a mountain out of a molehill, being paranoid and making things up. The pain is worse than death. I have told friends and family, A BIG NO, NO, but at the time I needed people to tell me I wasn’t crazy.They tend to judge you and are quick to say leave him.
Now he is ignoring the whole thing, going on like he never got caught and it never existed. Playing me like a fiddle. Yes, I want my marriage to work, but I won’t be played and I won’t be cheated on. I am hysterical when talking to him, the rage to prove my point is uncontrollable. I value the advice to beneutral and calm, I need to harden my heart and not be so desperate.
Its sooo hard. I have 2 young children make petty cash and seem to be painted into a corner by him.
He has the power.
Is there a chat room or forum on this site where I can go to and not feel so crazy?
November 6th, 2006 at 10:41 pm
Very simply stated, if the other person is not a friend to the marriage, he/she is NO friend at all.
November 6th, 2006 at 10:43 pm
I agree with Sue and Dee.
A common reason or justification for the cheater when it comes to emotional affairs is that : they want to ‘feel love’ and to love in their way, their newfound freedom. Suddenly, marriage is just a burden to the cheater, a weight around the neck. He/She needs to be ‘free’, wants to have the feeling and status of ‘being single again’. The cheated spouse, on the hand, is struggling with the devastation, with the emotional and mental ‘abuse’ from the cheater, trying to handle all the crap from the cheater – the emails to the op, the numerous sms/phone text messages, the late nights out, the going off on dates during weekends, etc.
I am going through exactly this, and it feels like hell.
I’m left to handle the children (7 and 9), I have to concentrate on my work. I have to handle his ‘moods’, his depression (largely also due to his unhappiness with his job). I’m trying so hard to ‘protect’ the children, not to let my despair and depression affect them, trying so hard to give them the warmth, love of a family, even without their father’s presence.
Looking at him, you’d think he’s on cloud 9, on la la land. It reminds me of those days and how you’d behave when you started dating.
It got me thinking – the way he’s feeling, it’s just like how we felt when we were dating right ? The ‘in love’ feeling, the freshness, the excitement, the romance.
Why should it now change after the marriage?
Deep down, I know I still love him. And that’s why it’s hurting so much I guess. I too want to have this ‘fresh, romantic’ feelings again.
But it’s all about him, always about him: How he’s lost the loving feelings, how he now feels he’s able to love, with this op, etc.
What has he done to also put that loving feelings back into me, into the marriage?
Is it my sole responsibility, my fault , that he is where he is today?
He says he needs to divorce me so that he can have the ’single’ status again, so that he can go on this journey to find love, to love and be loved by his own definition, his freedom.
To me, he just wants out so that he can continue to have his affair(s); this is his second one. After the 1st affair and before this, he said there was something but that did not work out. Claims that he has found his ‘ideal’ his ‘perfect’partner; that this may be the final one.
I’m sad, that he’s so lost, so lacking in inner strength and stability. I’m also worried about the day he gives me the papers and moves out – will I be able to handle? what about the children?
I’m just praying everyday.
Any advices?
November 7th, 2006 at 12:58 am
I, too, can relate to much of this, albeit second-hand. A “just a friend” caused a complete breakdown in my parents’ marriage. To this day, the OP just can’t see that it was my dad’s constant contact with her that got them where they are (it’s very awkward because she knows both my parents but through different mediums). There was a history of sexual affairs with other women, but the emotional one was 100% worse. He started talking to a married woman online that he had dated years ago and snubbing the rest of us. For several months, if he talked to any of the rest of the family at all, it was to heap out verbal abuse. As far as he was concerned, the OP was a spotless, sinless idol no one could say anything against or G-D help them! The longer it went on, the “mushier” their IM’s got and the uglier he got in his talk with my mother. Finally, when he tired of her, she becamea “pain in the butt” and a nuisance that “wouldn’t leave him alone”, after he’d persued her for over a year. Go figure! Unfortunately, the OP is of the mind that he’s come to terms with the fact they can be just friends and doesn’t “get” that it never had anything to do with friendship. She just can’t see thatshe’s hindering him from healing as long asshe’sstill in touch with him. My parents are trying to work things out, but the OP needs to “make like a tree” and leave him alone!
November 7th, 2006 at 2:45 am
unsure or craZy,
The friend I had an emotional affair with has been sure I’ll get a divorce since before I was married. He sure didn’t foresee that he and I would have an affair. My point is that regardless of how sure he is that I’ll one day be divorced, it’s not something I see as definitely happening. I sure didn’t want him waiting for that and basically told him to get on with his life and ditch me completely if that’s what he needed to do to get on with his life. With the LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of reading I’ve done, I hope below is some advice that will help you. I had read about a couple who wished they had married each other and she divorced her husband to be with him, but then his wife became pregnant with another child. They decided to wait 5 years before he’d divorce because of the baby (why 5 years I don’t know). And in 5 years he divorced his wife and married his old flame, both who felt they made a huge mistake and should have married each other in the first place. My point is that he followed through on what he said he would do. And he and she then lived happily together (or at least since the article was printed). I suppose it’s nice they lived happily together, but what about the spouses they left and what about the impact on the children? I certainly feel as they do that it’s too bad they didn’t marry each other the first time around. As for the man you’re in love with — he’s sure showing signs he’s just hanging on to you to meet love needs in his marriage that his wife doesn’t meet. I wish he’d do what it takes to make his family life as it ought to be and not use you — and you love him and wish he’d be happy with his wife and family too, if that’s possible (regardless of the heartache that’d cause you, it’d at least allow you to be happy for him and get on with your life).
Here’s some stuff I’ve read that I don’t remember where (though I think it was Dr. Phil) that may be helpful in allowing you to break free of this married man and get on with your life:
“And eventually, you’ll fall in love again ?” with someone who’s willing to make you first in his life.” — Believe that!
“Be mature enough to recognize that life is not always all about you and what feels good for you in the moment. If you are married and have children, you have an obligation and a commitment that far transcends what feels good.” — For you I guess that means recognizing this man isn’t being mature enough to put his family first.
“If he’ll do it with you, he’ll do it to you.” — It’s true that because he’s cheated on his wife, statistics show he’s EXTREMELY likely to cheat on you too.
“…then you come in at the 11th hour and provide a contrast to that that’s new and exciting and fun. It is no different than being a thief in the night. It is no different than breaking into their house and stealing their things.” — You are very likely extremely unfair competition in comparison to his wife. You couldn’t really know what all he may have done that has contributed to how she treats him (if he’s not being treated well). He likely has shown his family much neglect and is not being accountable to the consequences that has created. Regardless, if he is to divorce his wife it ought to be between him and her without outside forces that would encourage it to happen — outside forces that provide a safety net to fall into.
“Keep in mind that you only know what he tells you. You already know that he’s a liar because he’s living a lie with his wife and children. How can you be sure whether you’re the only “other woman” he has? Entertain the possibility that he is lying to you, and you are being used.” — These are possibilities.
“You may feel that he’s your soulmate, but think again.
A real soulmate would not set you on the sidelines. He wouldn’t allow it, let alone entice it.”
“No matter how you justify it, you are attacking his family unit.”
“Even if he is separated from his wife, that is their business and you are a threat to their marriage. You aren’t welcome and you don’t belong.”
“It’s time to move forward. If you’re putting your life on hold for a married man, he’s stolen not only your heart ?” he’s stolen your brain!”
And if you do choose to end it with this man completely, I imagine it’ll probably be like experiencing a death of someone you love dearly — even if you do come to a sense that he has deeply betrayed you by using you. Below are some things I found for myself to help recover from grief if my friend I had an emotional affair with decided that it would be best we had no contact anymore:
“Sometimes you can’t get over being hurt until you know you’ve been heard. Give yourself permission to express your anger and sadness.”
And below is how I felt over the idea of losing my friend permanently:
If I have to …………………………….
“I love you, but if I have to let you go, I will love you until the day I die. But I would let you go if I have to.”
If I have to let you go, as long as we both live, I will always be here if you need me.
I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to let you go. But if I have to so you can live your life, I’ll let you go.
There comes a time when you have to say, ‘Enough is enough. If I give up the pain, I’m not going to lose him/her.’ How long you grieve or how deeply you hurt does not reflect how much you loved. It doesn’t mean you’ve forgotten your loved one.
If you want to forgive yourself, understand that guilt is all about intention. Is there a bone in your body that wished or intended for something bad to happen to your loved one? If not, why are you feeling guilty?
(Because I should have known)
I hope any of that is helpful. If any of it is crap, of course disregard those parts.
November 7th, 2006 at 9:36 pm
My husband of 21 years has been phoning a “friend” from work for months…hundreds of calls and hundreds of text messages but it is supposed to be “just friends”. He denies that it was anything inappropriate as if I am supposed to see his friendship as normal. The woman went so far as to e-mail my 19 year old son and give her business card with cell phone number written on the back to my 11 year old son. When confronted about her behavior he said “she’s just a nice person…”
I refer to this friendship as an affair and he denies it. Just because he tells me that he loves me, I am supposed to believe that this is innocent. Frankly, I know that he is a very sexual person and I am supposed to believe that he has expended all this energy to help her at work and not have a sexual relationship? That is not as much the problem as the fact that he has had the emotional connection with this woman that he has denied me.
We are supposed to be “working things out” however, I am the one trying to understand, doing the research, reading the books and he is just sitting back pretending everything is great…he actually expects me to have sex with him and ignore the giant pink elephant in the living room.
I want to leave but I feel a need to prove his betrayal beyond doubt….are there any answers?
November 7th, 2006 at 9:41 pm
I really wonder what is this thing about ‘marriage’ that make the cheating spouse reach the stage where he/she claims he/she has needs which the spouse cannot meet in the marriage; that there is no passion there anymore. Especially if the ’sex’ part between the cheater and his/ her spouse is still on-going.
What is it about ‘emotional affairs’ that can ‘fulfill’ the cheating spouse’s needs that the spouse in the marriage cannot?
He/She claims he/ she still have feelings for the spouse, still have the bonds, but it’s just not the same.
He/She claims he/she can engage in long deep conversations with the op, with others but not with the spouse anymore, and it’s not because the spouse has become a bimbo overnight or anything!
I think it’s all about decisions, right? If the cheating spouse decides to stop trying, to stop ‘connecting’ with the marriage and the spouse, then I suppose there’s no use in trying to look for an answer anymore.
Any reasons he/ she gives will just be justifications for the affair.
November 7th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
All of the responses I see in this blog concerning the “cheated on partner” makes me want to give all of you who are goimg through this a big “group” hug.
No, you are not crazy or making a mountain out of a molehill. You are the person committed to the marriage, the relationship and to the family you have built together.
If you feel you can stay in your marriage or relationship while your “spouse or significant other” continues to see the “OP”, emotionally or otherwise, then get some counseling for yourself, so your feelings can be validated.
A therapist or personal coach will be able to give you the tools you need to get through a very painful and difficult experience that I would not wish on anyone “except the bitch” trying to steal mine or your husbands. I say this with all honesty because as some of you have already indicated, a “neat person” or a “great gal” as your spouses have described the “OP”, is not a truly good person at all, right?
Real people with real feelings do not try to steal another persons spouse, its unethical even for the women who think :”this is my last chance at love”.
So you have my support because my husband had the “were just friends” email emotional affair with someone who I used to be friends with. In fact the OP’s “Significant other” is actually a friend of my husbands’,so it was, needless to say, a nightmare for me.
When I saw all the emails,I got physically ill. In the month after the discovery I lost about 10 lbs and I am not “fat” by normal standards.
What helped me, because my husband would not admit that anything was going on, was my medical doctor noticed something about me that shocked her. I was not myself, I was boarderline depressed.
When I explained the situation, she gave me the referral I needed (for our HMO more than anything) to see a counsler to “validate my Feelings”. The doctor did indicate, while she was not a psychologist, my husband was really being deceitful and carrying on with another women, which in her professional mind, was a real problem for my marriage.
As I was securing a counsler that would be accepted by my health insurance plan, the referral “hotline” offered me a “personal coach” to speak with, to help me. It was the best thing that I have done for myself in a really long time. After the Personal coach “validated that my husband was “indeed having an emotional affair”, whether he wanted to admit it or not, I was able to “get a grip” with my life and my husband had to explain his behavior to me. He had a list of excuses but he had to stop all contact with her or run the risk of her Significant other finding out about the emails. He still denies that anything sexual happened and I am not sure if I will ever believe him, but we are trying to make our marriage work. He likens the email experience to being in a “play or movie and acting”. I still don’t buy all of the “horseshit” but I am able to live with the agreement we have.
Every marriage goes through peaks and valleys and sometimes people marry the wrong person. But we decided there was enough good stuff in our marriage to see this through. I still freak out inside, emotionally, if her name is brought up or if they are going to be at a “mutual friends” house that we may be going to, for a cocktail party.
I know I can face her in public though, without causing a scene because I have the power. He is my husband not hers, I gave him my soul to see him through all these years. She is my equal in age and education, so its not like I am competing with a women 20 years younger than myself. She used my husband emotionally to get what she wanted from her “significant other” (she lives with her boyfriend, who is my husbands’ friend). She flirted with my husband in front of her man to make him jealous, my husband gave her signals that said “my wife is out of town, you can contact me”. I was in total disbelief when it came to light but I will always “protect my marriage” now.
Too many people think its okay to “mess around” emotionally or physically with another persons spouse. Its not okay and to all of you, who have been wringing your hands in despair because your spouse is “cheating on you”-physically or emotionally, you are fine, its your spouse who needs psychological help. But.. you have to gain mental strength and a personal coach like Dr. Bob is a great tool to help you go on either on your own or with the cheating spouse.
November 8th, 2006 at 9:58 am
To Beejay
Thanks for the words of advice. I have no problem not seeing him in the last 3 yrs i have only seen him twice in court. He is still in hiding in my opinion it is probably the only way he can continue to look in the mirror. They have both convinced themselves that counselling solves everything to justify their poor morals. My difficulty right now is that for 2 and a half years none of us saw him and now he is back into some of their lives telling them it all doesnt matter because he loves them. I am the one who saved their home, I am the one who was their for them but they are slowly being convinced that none of that matters and he uses everything and anything. Its hard to readjust your life, I was part of his family for 26yrs and I hate dropping the kids off their because it is just another reminder of how unimportant I am to them and I was a great person to all of them I was the favorite daughter in law supposedly. I feel that if I invest too much of my life into my children I will end up bitter because all he has to do is be nice and its all okay. Im the one who has to discipline and do all the work etc and it sucks. And you are right he bad mouthed me to this girl to no end to bash me and solidify what he was doing to the point where he told he I had an affair 2 yrs prior. I couldnt believe it.I have invested my life for the past 4 yrs into my children and I am afraid to keep doing it. My oldest who was 14 when this started is now 18. When she hit 16 the weight of this came down on her, she started lying about everything and skipping school and her life is gone downhill, she moved in with her boyfriend a year ago and has no life, she reverted her anger toward me rather than him and I know he has filled her head with lies and stories about me to poison her mind and confuse her and he has won. To this day she is still in oblivion, I only see her on occasion but rare yet she always shows up for the visitation with him and has gone on to develop a great relationship with both of them and their kid. I feel so hurt she was my first and I did everything for her in her life and now it is all taken for granted. It sucks to give so much of yourself and recieve so little in return or a slap in the face. That is why I am now scared to continue investing myself in them because I dont want another one of them to do the same it would crush my soul.
And to the woman who knows the other woman and feels sorry for her, Dont I did the same thing and I even spoke to her once in the early stages because he was lying to both of us and playing both sides the difference is she was 19 and I 42. I knew enough to see it and she believed the lyes regardless of the evidence because you know she was in love. This is the same girl who told me to go feed my fn kids and also once told me to f off and called me a stupid slut all the things she should have been saying to herself. I can only pray she gets the same one day I doubt it because he knows he is much older and if he leaves her he will have no one so I doubt he will ever leave her because he is not the type to survive on his own. Maybe one day she will look back on this and see the things she said to me absurd but then that will take admissions and very few are willing to live in a real world. They only have the one kids so thats a piece of cake compared to the six i have. They feel nothing for you so dont feel sorry for the other person and if you talk to them they wont believe you anyway because they dont want to see it.
Anyway its so hard not to be bitter when you have to live with the leftovers,and when that person continues to live disrespectfully with no cares in the world because they dont have to face the children everyday their needs wants and demands and sadly they expect it of you but not of him, thats what really ticks me off.
November 8th, 2006 at 11:28 am
I for 2 years suffered with a “just friend”. Yeah, right. My husand and I have been together for 33 years. I kept thinking, “MY, God, he is 6o, why is he still acting like this?” (wasn’t the first time) But the thing about the just friends, is just like everything else, a lie. After 33 years, I know all his friends and if you have to hide, deceive, and lie, there must be a reason. Any person who will not come around the spouse is more than just a friend. After allowing this to happen for so long, I finally got tired and left. I was, no, had become a person I didn’t like, obsessing over this. I could not function any longer. Of course, like the rest of you, I am the ROCK in our relationship. Well, of course, he wanted me back. I did go back after a period. I laid everything out, telling him I would no longer shut myself down. The reason I really went back was material. I decided I would not let some OP move into my life and gain from my hard work of 33 years. So I decided to take care of myself. I feel 100% better and with all the self help books I have bought, one comment changed the way I thought. The OP is more worried about you than you are her. She has no foundation for the relationship, you have a history. And once the OP finds out that he will not leave his partner, that’s when the true colors come out. It’s easy to be on best behavior when all you have to deal with in life is the fun things. Let a little stress come into the picture??? I think not. My spouse has finally ended it, and I told him I could forgive, the forgetting,trust, and respect is something that will take time. But we have to communicate. I find myself being reminded with just the tiniest words or different things. But I said, “I don’t want to start my life over, but I can if I have to. And whatever happens, I WILL BE JUST FINE!”
November 8th, 2006 at 1:24 pm
I also believe my spouse would have came back to me, but since this 19 yr old girl got herself pregnant intentionally put a hugedamper on the chances of it. he did try but of course he was totally confused. She gave him all the poor me I had a bad life with my parents they threw me out I have had such a bad life he even told me once he was afraid to break it off as she was suicidal and she had already tried 3 times before and had been pregnant also 3 times before. He told me I was strong and that I would be okay. I truly think he wanted to come back but the pregnancy complicated it and I think it was very difficult for him to face everyone which is probably why we didnt see him for the following 2 yrs. He stayed with her and developed this new life with none of us in it and when he eventually became comfortable with it is when he started trying to oome back into the childrens lives. After 26yrs he and I have no relationship or conversations whatsoever. He claims she saved his life and claims to be very happy. They were recently married so I guess it must be true. Well I guess if you had 6 kids financial obligations etc, yes a 19yr old with a pink thong could definately save your life. I guess their relationship grew because he didnt think he could come back. All the im important signs are their because she worships him and Im the bad person. I dont know that she would feel that way if she were in my shoes personally. Will this person hide from me forever, is he really truly found happiness as he says I cant imagine that 6 kids and 26yrs really meant nothing but I think their both convinced its all in the past so therefore has no meaning or bearing on their lives. And to to Claude who said if stress was in the relationship and all these children the true colors would have come out but it could never happen when he hid from this family for over 2 yrs so they had the chance to develop this life. If I dumped all my finanacial responsibilities and all my kids I could have this new life too. Now all the kids wont even see him so they will never have to deal with any day to day responsibilities or the real stresses of life they just get the fun get togethers on visitations with those who do go and its all good cause its only the fun stuff. There relationship is based on lies but will probably survive because they have convinced themselves it was honest and innocent and because he is sorry to the children makes it all ok. It really isnt ok. I hope Claude it works out because I too do not feel like starting over. I wish I could have seen it coming and stopped it before she got herself pregnant. And how will this poor child feel when she is grown and looks back at the circumstances of how her life cam to be
November 8th, 2006 at 9:22 pm
I am confused–please advise
I am seeing a counselor but I still can’t get over the constant sick stomach and thoughts of his “friendship” with co-worker(previous message)
The counselor is telling me, maybe they are just friends. Men and women can be friends in today’s workplace.
I shouldn’t try to control the situation, that, is insisting he have no contact with her. I am putting resentment in there that gets in the way of rebuilding the marriage. My gut is telling me something is going on and he needs me to set boundaries if he can’t. He is confused and I need to at least try and set the limits to what will make the marriage work. Just the thought of saying ok do what you will with her–barf. Just the thought of her makes me sick. If he chose to meet her, call her, email her with my knowledge I know I could not “work it thru” as the counselor says but would have to leave to survive emotionally at the least. And I don’t want to leave. He is the one choosing to go outside of the marriage for support and fun. That is wrong and leads us nowhere. He should be the one to leave if he chooses that path.
But my counselor says maybe I’m wrong. I said I would never dis-trust my instincts again, so maybe I should quit counseling altho it has given me a good perspective til this.
What do you think?
November 8th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
To Crystal
Your counsellor is full of bull . Any counsellor that encourages a relationship of one party in the marraige with someone that many years younger and of the opposite sex are clearly not just friends. You are right to nip this in the bud. If you love your husband and he loves you then fight now or you will be on the losing end. Maybe you should have a chat with this girl and tell her how you feel and how much you love him etc. She will probably insists they are friends also to protect him but you can at least ask her how she would feel if the situation was reversed. If your husband loves you then he should respect that the situation is interfering and it isnt that you dont trust him and that maybe its just an unhealthy situation to add to your marraige. Chances are if she is that much younger she may not have the maturity to get it esp if she has no children. The friendship should be with you both not just him. Maybe the smart thing to have done at the party wasbe friendly with her like your a couple being friendly with her. Invite her and her date over to visit with you and your husband and you will know for sure. If you do invite them be sure to be touchy and loving with your husband and see if he draws away from you that will tell you if he is trying to hide his intimacy with you in front of her but it might also send her a message that yes he is married to you. He may not like you trying to be friends with her but if its really that innocent then there should be no problem. I know my exes girl FRIEND totally avoided me when they were in the just friend category now they are married. If I knew then what I know now I would not have avoided her back I would have approached her dead on the money. And I personally think counsellors help people most when they need to work through things and sort their feelings out so they can come to emotional understandings with themselves I guess my comment to the counsellor would be okay maybe your right but what if your wrong lets say they are more than friends theoretically speaking then what do you recomend because thats really the info your looking for not maybe your imagining it because your probably not hang in there
November 9th, 2006 at 1:55 am
Crystal,
Check out http://www.aftertheaffair.net/ . It talks about opening the eyes of your spouse to what they are doing . I haven’t made it through reading the whole thing yet, but it’d be something for your husband to read — if he would. However the info there is geared more toward affairs where sex is involved, so he may not make the comparison as to what it’s discussing with what he is doing.
Your councelor is wrong that your husband’s relationship with this woman may only be friendship. (If he’s had other female friends who were oly friends, you certainly know the difference). You stated that your husband lied about getting e-mail from her — deception shows it’s an emotional affair.
Read this in an article by Peggy Vaughan:
“What makes it an emotional affair?
It’s an emotional affair if??
–He’s keeping the details of his relationship secret from you
–He’s saying and doing things with the other person he wouldn’t do with you present
–He’s sharing things with the other person that he doesn’t share with you
–He’s making an effort to arrange to spend time with the other person”
Yes, I think Dr. Bob’s book could be tremendous help for you and your feelings — though I haven’t read it. The laser phrases Dr. Bob has described I know from experience probably all work — when using the right phrase for the right affair. I don’t remember for sure what the phrase it was I found out works, but it was one one Dr. Bob had mentioned. Since I haven’t read the book, I don’t know all the phrases.
I hope your councelor would advise you what to do to help you with your husband regarding the emotional affair.
Peggy Vaghn also said this:
“Emotional affairs either end or they escalate.
It really doesn’t matter whether someone thinks an emotional relationship is totally harmless. The fact is that in most instances emotional affairs are just affairs that have not YET become sexual. They either end or they escalate. So (as with any type affair), it’s critical that all one-on-one contact with the third party be severed?”before it escalates.”
I’m hoping that’s an overgeneralization because I still have contact with the friend I had an emotional affair with (very scant contact) and I’m not keeping contact secret from my husband, and I love my husband, and I love that my friend has a wonderful girlfriend now that he’ll soon be engaged to, and they already have the date picked out for next year. My husband has told me several times my affair really wasn’t that serious (but he sort of has a problem with denying and repressing anything negative happening in his life), but I’m making sure I’m taking what I did seriously because it was WRONG — very wrong.
Had my husband told me at the beginning of the emotional affair that he forbidded me to talk to my friend — I really think I would have left my husband because I was already that much out of my mind (my rationalization for that would have been that my husband had already made my life miserable forcing me what to do, I wasn’t going to tolerate telling me who I couldn’t have for a friend). But, setting “reasonable” boundries, and telling me where he foresaw it all leading to — I would have listened to that at least somewhat.
One phrase my husband used at least twice (not because he read anything) — was to suggest to me, why don’t I just leave. Then my thoughts would turn to, “Is leaving the right thing to do?” “What if our marriage can be better?” Sure a part of me really wanted to leave — “the grass is greener” syndrome. But regardless if even if the grass really was greener, it just seemed a really wrong thing to do, and that somehow my husband and I ought to be able to make things better between us. I agree with Dr. Phil that no stone should be left unturned for trying to save a marriage.
My point is that yes — I agree with you that it’d probably be helpful for your husband if you could help him set some boundries with this woman because yes, people involved in affairs have quite cloudy thinking. Almost everything I’ve read says the affair needs to be 100% severed — no contact between the affair people. Yet I don’t know if it’d be good to demand that of your husband because of I know what I had planned my action to be had I been told that by my husband — I was going to leave.
I have a feeling that some of the comments I’ve made regarding this may not be helpful at all — maybe I’m still much more stuck in an emotional affair than what I think I am and so I’m giving some bad “advice.” I’m quite confident though that Dr. Bob’s book would be much more helpful for you than what your councelor has been. I haven’t read it, but I have read several articles by Dr. Bob and he really does sound right on track when it comes to understanding affairs and what to do about them.
I wish your husband wasn’t doing this to you — it’s not your fault. I hope the woman doesn’t realize he’s being secretive with you and really does see him as a fun friend — that would show respect that she wishes you no harm and doesn’t realize what’s going on with your feelings. It is dangerous that they have both recently experienced loss. I wish you stability and comfort regarding your feelings and that you and your husband experience healing in your marriage and a happiness that grows out of love for each other and God.
November 10th, 2006 at 11:59 am
To Nickie
we seem to be living the same life!
I like the pink elephant reference.It happens here to!
I do not reccomend you leave. You have children and need to be sure thats the right decision. I have a 12 year old and need facts before I make that big of a move. It’s weird how our “gut” tells us its true, but we don’t want it to be true so we hold on for more “facts”….just to be sure. Because, what if?
I feel as if my husband is satiating me to calm me down and get me off track. What is worse than the affair, is being played and manipulated after I have caught on.
To Michelle
thanks for the hug!
to all,
thanks for your insights, some hit hard, most are so rational(I need that), all are painful. I feel for you all.
November 10th, 2006 at 7:08 pm
I found out about my husband’s affair in April. He started to be really weird in January, wouldn’t include me in conversations when people came round, told me not to touch him, wouldn’t do anything for me, and he kept going all glassy eyed. I really thought he had gone mad!! I have always dealt with his bank, post etc as he was away all week, and he told me not to open his letters, especially his phone bill as he didn’t want me to know who he was ringing. I must have been really stupid, as I still didn’t (or didn’t want) to think that he might be involved with someone else. His sister said to me “do you think he might be having an affair?”, and then I checked his phone bill and found out. We tried to make a go of it but he wouldn’t put his arms round me or kiss me and he wouldn’t talk about it. I’ve since found out that he has never stopped contact with her. He now wants to divorce me on the grounds of his adultery, and pay me to move out of our house. He refuses to leave as he says I won’t be able to pay the mortgage on my own, and she will not be moving in with him and he wants to live on his own. He has been to a solicitor who has said he has to divorce me on MY unreasonable behavoir!! I am going to lose my husband and my home for this “friend”. It is torture living like this and I really want to run away from it all but I will lose everything I have worked for over the last 15 years. I know I can start again on my own and looking forward to doing so as this is always on my mind from when I wake up to when I go to sleep and now I just want closure on it all so I can get on with my life. Why doesn’t he just move out and go and live with her??? Why does he have to put me through all this pain?? This is the worst thing in my life I have had to go through and it seems to be never ending.
The lies and deceit are never ending, he lies to his family and friends, he has spent all his money and probably put himself into debt – for what? This is a situation that we (there I go again – hoping that he will stop it all and things will turn out OK) will never recover from, and I have to realise that, but it’s so hard and gone on so long I feel numb and no longer seem to have any emotion left.
November 11th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
I finally ran out of patience. I could not take the hanging on after 3.5 months. I asked myself what am I hanging on to?
Nothing was changing, and things got worse. I wanted closure. I did not want to meet another man, and get involved only to have my boyfiend run back later and say I want you back, I made a mistake.
He has done that in the past after an affair 3 years ago, and that was my fear.
Regarding the op living with him now, I told him it was not so much that he was helping a potential homeless person on disability to find another place to live, but that he moved her in without my knowledge, and behind my back.
He continued to see me, and would have still been doing that if I had not found out she was there.
I AM CONVINCED tht once a cheater always a cheater.
I have never cheated, and refuse to ever deal with it again.
Anyone who is still going back, and forth with this needs to come to grips with it.
DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO!
Waiting for a miracle to happen only prolongs the agony. Maybe the miracle happened already when the cheating started. It allowed you to see the truth in your realationship.
I think its better to be by yourself for the right reasons than to continue in a relationship/marriage for all of the wrong reasons.
Life is a flash. Have no regrets that you allowed someone to continue to make you miserable.
November 11th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
Good grief, there certainly are a lot of us!
This blog was sorely needed. Thank you Bob Huizenga.
November 11th, 2006 at 6:46 pm
I have been ill for three years, and have been unable to work. We lost our home (custom built), had to move, children lost friends etc. After three years of being the one to take care of everyone, and the finances as well, my common-law spouse (I call him my husband anyway) decided to leave me. We had already been going to couples councelling for a while when he left. Something had happened that I wanted to talk about, but he did not. (He told me he was working late, (he has two jobs courier daytime and pizza delivery at night) and then ended up going out with the guys to watch strippers. I was upset to say the least as he knows my feeling regarding this issue. The same weekend, late on a Sunday night he received a call from a female coworker, asking for a ride to work the following morning. I of course had suspicions, so I checked his cell phone and discovered he had talked with her the week before as well. When I asked him on the Monday how it went and if she asked him before, he said it was the only time. So I asked why he called her the Sunday before. He said just to see how her weekend was going. He decided to “talk” to me on the Wednesday and instead of discussing the stripper issue, he said he wanted to leave. We have been together for 16 years, and have two children. His explaination was that he wasn’t happy, he had too much stress etc. He did not once mention her. I asked if it was over, or if he just needed some space for awhile. He wasn’t sure, so I said if he wanted me to wait for him I would but only if he followed some rules, no more porn, no more strippers, and no more her. No phone calls, trips to or from work nothing. He agreed. So I went about taking care of the kids etc, and ironically finally got the medication I needed to function again properly and began to take care of my house again, as well as myself. He had the kids on Sundays, and that was our communication. Valentines day he was to come over after work (8:30), but he called to say he had to close because the other guy didn’t show up and he was really sorry. I of course was very suspicious, had thoughts in my head of him being with her. He showed up the next night with a dozen red roses (the third time I have received flowers in 16 yrs) He said how sorry he was for not being here on VDay. I immediately felt bad about being suspicious. That night he told me he wanted to get his own apartment (he’s been living with his parents). I again asked if that was it for us, he needed more time. So I again stated the “rules” and agreed to wait for him. I got curious, and looked up his cell phone bill only to discover so many calls to and from her. I also discovered a second number and called it, confirming her home number. What hurt most was seeing her number six times on VDay including two after he called me to say he was working late. Needless to say I began to believe this was a full blown affair. He of course denied it and said they were just friends. We continued to not speak to each other during the week, and only see each other when the kids were picked up or dropped off. Until he got into a car accident (he rear ended someone) driving her home. The car is in my name as well as the insurance, and so since he’s a courier he cannot be without a car, we needed to find a replacement as soon as possible (the car was a writeoff) magically during those following weeks, we talked more, went out dancing, and had the most passionate intimate times we had ever had. He started to kiss me passionately as well. He never had before. He said because he had neve felt like it before. I was finally getting what I had been wanting for literally years. His attention, his time. He worked so much, that when he was home he often fell asleep right after dinner. He said we didn’t have enought money to go out etc. After a night of passion he finally decided to tell me the truth about why he moved out. Part of it was the illness, being stuck in a rut etc. but a lot of it was the fact that he wanted to pursue a relationship with this woman. I was devestated. He said that it was different now though. After spending time with her he has found out she wants to focus on her career and is not interested in a romance with him. Plus the fact that the two of us have been spending more time together and actually having fun again. It has been ten months since he has moved out. I told him I love him, he has said the same. He has said he is starting to believe that we belong together, but she is still in the picture. He doesn’t go out with her as much, maybe once or twice a month, but I know she still calls him, and it ususally ends up being when he’s with me. He still says they are just friends and that I need to get over it. I of course want him to quit that job so he doesn’t have to see her everyday. I don’t know if he will ever see things the way I do as long as he still believes she is just a friend. He thinks I am the only one who sees it as an emotional affair. I am torn, because I really do love this man, I only found out how much when he left, and I want to be with him. But I also know I can’t begin to resolve and heal the hurt unless she is out of our lives otherwise I will continue to mistrust him, and worry if we have a fight that he doesn’t end up running to her. The fact that in his head he doesn’t believe he has cheated, makes it almost impossible for him to be sorry for all the pain. I told him if they were just friends he wouldn’t have to lie to me and his children and sneak around to be with her. So here I am stuck in the meantime not knowing if I should just walk away, or fight for what I want. But I don’t want to issue the me or her ultimatum either. I would love to have some personal counselling as I’m still unable to pick which type of affair he’s in, I think it’s mostly he wants to be desirable/lovable. He says he didn’t know I loved him that much either. He thought after a couple of weeks I would be fine and would go my own way. Now I don’t know what to do to get him to come home, but I know I only want him here if he wants to be here, not because he can’t have something else and I’m the next best option. This affair has opened both our eyes to mistakes we have made, and I am doing things to make changes, and he has as well to a certain extent, but he won’t go as far as to move home and say goodbye to her. I of course suffer from low self esteem and this just makes it worse. So I am desperately trying to take care of me right now, and focus on my children, but this situation is always on my mind. Your books and emails have been a tremendous help in getting me this far, so thank you.
November 13th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
This is the first time I read the blog-
I copied most of the comments and will read them again after.
Lots of us in almost same situation.
We have been married for 40 yeras and emotional affair with a classmate he met at a reunion last year – some 200o km away.
Since then, e mails, cel calls. Lts of hiding things etc..
We will be starting counsilling next week.
When confronted – admitted at first- a friend, but on last trip, I found out otherwise.
Its a long story- cancer etc…
I hope we can make it- Need to build my trust in him again.
Still has contacts with OP. mainly secretly cel calls and mail.
To all of you, thanks for sharing.
We are not alone
Charlene
November 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
I too have a husband of 20 years who had an emotional affair. He hadn’t seen her in 30 years. Ran into her at an aniversary party for her parents in montana – thousands of miles from home. Shortly after returning home, he began saying all the same things. I don’t love you, we’ve grown apart etc, etc. I found out about the affair when I hacked his email. I also watched his cell phone records. Reading highly sexual emails between my husband and another woman and seeing the number of phone calls daily was the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced, but then it all made sense. What a jerk! They never actually met again to take things further — he just wanted to have a little sexual fantasy. He never would admit to anything until I confronted him, firmly, but without anger. I simply told him that I knew everything, and that if he didn’t want to love me I would find someone who would. That was much harder than it sounds, but by that time, I was prepared to tell him to get out. It was positively liberating and it helped me regain a sense of control of my life. Soon after that conversation he said it was over and he loves me. I called the OP and told her she was being lied to — that he never intended to leave me. Of course she didn’t believe me. I also told her to stop calling MY husband. Then I told him he had two choices: (1) he calls her (with me on the phone) and tells her it’s over and don’t contact me ever again; OR, (2) he writes her a letter saying it’s over and I read it AND I mail it. He made the phone call. Therapy was the best thing for us. He never would have called it an affair — he just kept saying ‘nothing happened’. Our therapist nailed him on that and told him there is no other name — he had an affair. The therapist also told him the only way he (husband) could repair things was to try to understand and feel my feelings. They worked on that a long time and it helped to hear him say how guilty he feels. He asked for my forgiveness. It was devasting and a year later still struggle to trust him. There is a lot of damage to repair and I have no idea how long it will take. I hope to have a better marriage someday.
I am so sorry for your troubles and no, we are not alone.
Carole
P.S. I don’t believe anyone should tolerate continued contact with the OP. Be aggressive about that, but be prepared for a reaction. Get spyware and put it on your computer. Stealth makes a good AND invisible product.
November 23rd, 2006 at 4:05 am
Hi from Spain,
My boyfriend had an affair for about a month and now she is pregnant, although he says that he always used a condom. He will do the test if he is the father, but there are still some long months to go.
As I think that he is a mix between “cant say no” and “needs to be desired” now I am scared that I was using the wrong ones, putting more input on the last one. But he is more tending to be cant say no, as she is calling every day, tells him to call her at certain times, asks for kisses on the phone and he gives them and now she is insisting that he flys to Germany tomorrow to see her. Since he is back in contact with her he sleeps worse again and just feels to have the fault for everything and is very very distant. He follows her like a littly puppy.
As usual he works abroad, but was working from home for last two weeks now although he should have gone to the other place where he usually is. I thought this to be a good sign, as well he is helping a lot at home right now, something he had hardly done before. But next week he is due to begin working on an island about 2500 km away, and if he really flies to Germany tomorrow, our last weekend, I fdo not know what to think any more.
Which are some laser phrases I could use?
Thanks a lot
Christiane
November 23rd, 2006 at 7:44 am
Like most experiences on this blog, my story is long an complicated. I shall try to keep it as concise as possible.
I have been married for 26 years and we have 2 children (24 and 21). I am a typical small-businessman – my wife is an airline stewardess. Due to our lifestyles, we have always said that we need the space to be somewhat independent – indeed, this was one of the reasons why we thought we were a good match when we married – within a year of meeting each other! We felt comfortable about being without each other. No explanations needed; no jealousy. We even went as far as to agree that, should a one-night stand occur, this need not be the end of the world.
Five years into our marrige, my wife fell hopelessly in love with another man. With the help of councelling we managed to get through it and stayed together. Two years later, I found out about a second affair – more a one-night-stand. Needless to say, this left a huge scare in our relationship, especially as I had begun to feel that we were back on track.
Two weeks ago I found out about yet another affair. This time it was far more of an emotional type. Initially, I was told that this was because I had built a wall around myself after the previous affairs and she needed somebody to talk to. This was a neighbour who frequently visited the house during my absence, which I knew about and condoned. It is extremely difficult for me to understand exactly what happened. On the one hand, just talks over dinner, at home, walks in the park etc. On the other, I discovered secret emails etc. with intimate connotations (I miss you etc.) My wife said that there was no sex involved, just talking. When I asked why it was necessary to become so secretive, she explained that the things they talked about and the frequency (sometimes twice per week) made this necessary. She said that neither of them want to leave their partners – their relationship was filling the emotional gap they have with their partner. She did, however, agree that they were having an emotional affair, which has been going on for years but had intensified during the last year.
We have talked a lot during the past weeks. It has become clear to her that her perception of the wall surrounding me was in fact the result of her own detachment.
The really crazy thing is that we have followed the basic rule in this situation: Ask yourself what you really want. And we both agreed that we do not want to leave each other. We shall start counselling shortly, which may help us to achieve our wishes. I am sure that most readers will think I’m flogging a dead horse – time will tell. All I do know is that on each occasion I have been devastated by deceipt and the feeling that I am not good enough. Until a feeling of trust returns, it will be an uphill struggle.
November 23rd, 2006 at 9:56 am
Dear Robert
Isnt it amazing how love has our hearts in fists that just cant let go even if its for the best. I only hope for you that by the time your heart has been squeezed to death that you have something left in you to offer to someone else because if it has continued to happen then I suspect it wont stop. I dont say this to discourage you or redirect what you are trying to do. If this has happend so often maybe there is something missing that you may never find here but can find elsewhere and you will be living on hope for the rest of your life. Plain and simple affairs ruin relationships because if there was something wrong before it happend theres even more wrong or missing now. I only hope for you that you can save yourself in the end. Im not even sure if I did at this point as everyday is a huge struggle just to exist in this life.
November 26th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
I can’t believe how many of the stories above I could have written myself. This blog has helped me so much knowing that I am not alone in my situation. All of your stories will help me be strong.
In the past 1-1/2 years, I have discovered my husband in two (that I knew of) emotional affairs, one that was non-sexual, and the other that became sexual.
The first one with with a long time client and friend with whom I had always promoted the friendship. I have two male friends of my own. I always knew she had a crush in my husband, but knew he wasn’t interested in her. How surprised I was when just recently, their relationship became so friendly that they had secret emails, spent hours on the phone, had pet names for each other, and all of a sudden, I was not invited along with they met for dinner. Finally he admitted that he had allowed the “friendship” to go way beyond where he was comfortable, and was glad I found out because he didn’t know how to stop what was happening.
OK, that’s one. Then later, he started acting funny again. Taking care of his appearance, being gone a lot. He started working out at the gym three nights a week, and his workouts would last from 5p.m. t0 10:00 p.m. Who works out for 5 hours?? Well, maybe he does, I told myself.
Then, by some strange fluke, a blessing to me, one day when he was supposed to be headed for the gym, my cell phone beeped me with a message. When I listened to the message, there was an entire conversation betweeen my husband and a woman that had just taken place, because he was repeating a whole conversation he had had with me when I was at his office moments before he’d left for the “gym.”
So I called him in his cell right away while he was still with her and said, “You’re not at the gym, you’re with a woman.” Of course he said “what are you talking about, bla, bla, ” And I couldn’t believe the fast-thinking excuses that came out of his mouth. It was his neighbor at the office, etc. And at that moment, I realized what I good and fast liar he could be. I had no idea. I had always thought that he never lied to me (how foolish you can be, even if you think you’re smart).
Anyway, to make a long story short, he says it wasn’t an affair because he was helping her with a problem she was having with her husband, and even tho they had sex three times, it wasn’t really sex, even tho he penetrated, and climaxed. I guess his rationalization is that the sex was disappointing for him, therefore, it wasn’t sex.
I went and got my divorce papers ready, then he pleaded for me to give him another chance. That’s what I’m doing now. I made him have her call me so I know it’s over. She’s terrified I’ll tell her husband.
But here’s the strange thing. Even tho I have been willing to forgive him, because our own sex life has been non-existent for some time (we are in our 60’s, but that isn’t the reason, we started sleeping in separate rooms when he started snoring), I wanted to initiate our sex life again, but HE is the one who has been unable to do so. Isn’t that a switch?? I don’t know if I can ever trust him again, but without the sex, it’s for sure I can’t.
November 30th, 2006 at 2:05 am
I can’t believe what I am reading in this blog, and how it relates to my situation. My wife of 27 years has throught the past two years becoming very distant to me. Her interest in sex with me is totally gone. I have been trying to talk to her about it, but she would be vague. Then I began to recognize that she would talk to me about conversations that she would have with one of her agents at her office. These conversations were centering around sexual experiances the agent (he was recently divorfced) was having. I told my wife at the time how could she be comfortable about that. Once, I was riding in the car with her, and he called, and my wife was actually glowing. And she kept talking, knowing I was seeing this going on. I recently looked at our cell phone bill, and she has had over four phone calls with him that were over 30 minutes in duration. I tagged her on this, and she said it was just phone calls. Now, I have noticed that she is everynight, deleting her cell phone call log. She says she is a “social butterfly.” For a 48 year old woman, my wife is very attractive, and she dresses to accentuate this. And it is not just one guy she is doing this with. There are several.
November 30th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
Dear Rob,
As an experienced cheated-spouse, I have but one advice for you: Trust your gut feelings! If you feel warning signals, tehn they are there! You have a long relationship with an attractive wife. She knows this, and those around her appreciate her. If she is not receiving the things she wants from a relationship with you, and can find this elsewhere, then she will go for it! In my opinion, there is only one way you can handle this, and that is to confront her with your concerns – get it into the open! But not by accusing or mistrusting her. And don’t accept the classic response “It’s nothing”. If you feel it’s there, tehn it is, even if it’s only in your mind! The only way you are going to avoid getting into trouble is by giving her more attention, compliments and warmth. This is what wives want more than anything else. If this does not work, then the problems are probably far deeper and you should look for professional help.
December 6th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
While I haven’t had the time to read through all of the comments above, it is amazing to hear all of the different stories and scenarios. Whoever said that affairs are complex was not kidding. I’m not sure if there is anyone our there who’s in the same boat that I am but if you are I could certainly use a shoulder. My wife has been having an “emotional” affair for the past ~6 months. I suspected something was going on and could see a definite difference in her actions towards me in the last month and a half. I caught her (I’m not going to reveal my methods but let’s just say that it’s admissible in court) sleeping over at this guys house – she told me at the time that she was staying at a friends. She was devastated to say the least when I confronted her and I was outraged. This happened 2 weeks ago and while I only have hard evidence of this one occurrence, she admits to one other time 3 weeks earlier only because I threatened to call that friend whose house she stayed that night and she said “please don’t”. She says that nothing happened at this guys house and that she slept on the couch but a) I do not trust her and b) I wasn’t born yesterday. The multitude of emotions I am experiencing is overwhelming. We have been married for 22.5 years. We started seeing a counselor last week and my wife indicated that she retreated into a “survival” mode 10 years ago to keep the marriage together “for the kids” and that now she hasn’t felt anything for me for a long time. When I look back over the years I guess I can now see the remnants of this survival mode but I also remember good times as well (we went to the islands for our 20th anniversary with no indication of any lack of feelings etc.) Over the past 10 years we have had ups and downs and while our relationship was not anywhere close to ideal, her survival mode kept the relationship civil and non-confrontational. While we have continued to have physical intimacy over the years there is no doubt that we have transgressed into a functional rather than emotional relationship. I’m not saying that this is acceptable but really how many “Hollywood” relationships exist in the real world? Yes I will admit that I have been emotionally aloof over the years and am perfectly willing to step up to the table and claim responsibility for “my actions” (or lack thereof). But, from what I have read, a relationship is between 2 people and both of us need to be accountable for the terrible place that our relationship has evolved into. Maybe I’m being selfish when I say this but I don’t think so ?” in my opinion she needs to be held accountable for her recent actions and as far as I’m concerned if she truly wants to keep the marriage together (which she says that she does) then she should be asking for my forgiveness every day. And while it may not be on the same order of magnitude I too need to ask for her forgiveness for my transgressions over the years.
I told her that “we” could not possible have any chance of surviving this if the OP remains in the equation. I told her that similar to the fact that she made the decision to betray me (I will NEVER claim responsibility for that), that she needed to end the affair. She says that she has and breaks down into tears (Oscar winning performance or sincerity?) but again I’m not sure that I believe her. It’s like I took away her play toy and she doesn’t know what to do. I feel that we are at an absolute stale mate – she doesn’t want to have sex or open up to me until she feels my love towards her and she falls back into love with me. And I feel that the pressure is on me to change (even though I wasn’t the one who did the betraying) and that if I show any modification in my behavior, even if it is centered on me trying to learn and grow to be a better human being, it will come across as reactionary and will be viewed as justification for her infidelity. I desperately need someone to talk to.
December 10th, 2006 at 9:18 pm
Dave,
So sorry to hear about your situation. I was in the same situation as your wife about 6 years ago. I felt very lonely in my marriage and I worked with an outside consultant for a few months. He was divorced and very nice and attentive. It was the first time in my marriage that I’ve ever been tempted. But our business relationship ended and I did not pursue anything. I knew in my heart that I needed to stay with my marriage until it was ended and not complicate it with someone else. So I begged my husband to go to counseling-He refused. So when my twins went off to kindergarten and I was home alone (I worked part-time), I decided to have another baby. She filled the void in my life. Unfortunately, she didn’t fill the void in my husband’s life. We got involved in church and in a Sunday school for married couples and I thought that it was really helping us-everyone seemed to have the same issues (women felt like servants and were overwhelmed with household responsibilities and men felt neglected and were workaholics). Our communication seemed better. But 1 & 1/2 years ago I notice his behavior changing and he told me he no longer loved me and wanted out. I was floored. I had felt like our marriage was on track for the first time in a long time. It didn’t take long for me to figure out he was seeing someone else-actually a pretty good friend of the two of us. I’ve confronted him when I had proof and he swore he’d stop seeing her, then I’d catch him again, etc. Not sure yet if she’s out of the picture. I guess time will tell. I know he feels embarrassed (he has a lot of moral integrity or at least had) and wants to move forward. But we have gone to counseling together and in a lot of ways our marriage has really improved. He’s doing the things that I desperately wanted him to do 6 years ago. But now there’s a lack of trust and anger on my part (though I try to keep it hidden and work it our through counseling on my own). I know he does love me or he would have left me for her. I’m also reluctant to throw away 19 years of a relationship (married for 17.5) and tear my family apart, especially when my children are young (10,10,4). Will it work? I honestly don’t know. I guess it depends on how willing he is to change. When I found out about his affair I took the blame completely and changed and did everything and anything I could to win him back. I do believe that our marriage was lacking or he wouldn’t have gone elsewhere. However, he still had a choice. He didn’t have to cheat. I didn’t. I deserved a fair shot without anyone else in the picture. Yes, your wife is wrong, but I do believe you both need to change. However, don’t become a doormat. I did for about a year and all it got me was knots in my stomach. He also treated me anyway he wanted because he knew I’d do anything to keep him. That’s not a marriage. I read Dr. Phil’s book “Relationship Rescue” and did the workbook and it gave me great insights into myself. Because no matter what happens in this marriage, I need to be happy with me and I need to make myself a whole person. If your wife hasn’t left you for the other person then I’d say that she still has strong feelings for you. She’s just not sure if you do or not. My counselor told me – You can always walk away, so give it some more time. At least I can look at myself in the mirror and look my kids in the eyes and say I did everything I could to keep my marriage together. And if he’s still involved with the OP then time & God will reveal it and I can walk away with a clear conscience. I know it’s hard, but just give it more time. What else do you have?
December 19th, 2006 at 6:40 pm
June,
Thank you so much for replying. Even though I know that this is about as impersonal as it gets it truly is great to hear from someone. I have been “put down” by my wife for years and I guess I lacked the guts to stand up for myself. I’m not a pyschologist but I imagine I have issues of fear of intimacy and she has issues where she needs to be in control all the time. I came from a family where we learned to “live with it” and not upset the apple cart. I am an engineer and very technically oriented. While intimacy is not my strong suit I know that I can change, the question is will she see this and will she also want to change. I too have read Dr. Phil’s Relationship Rescue book as well as several other e-books etc. The fundamental bottom line is consistent – I can only change ME and no one else. I am a great person, I have just never taking the “Love 101″ course so I am at a loss for how to learn to be intimate. I’m hoping that she will see this and instead of degrading me, work with me to help me learn. The other thing that I have read which makes sense to me is that while I am not to blame for her infidelity, I am partially to blame for her feelings and setting the stage for her to look elsewhere for whatever she was not been getting from me. Thank you for your wisdom – I can tell you without a doubt that I will not become a doormat! It is very hard not to “react” to this situation but I too am trying my hardest to take the high road in an attempt to work this out. I too want a clear conscience and I want to show our kids the right thing to do when trying to resolve conflicts.
Another remarkable thing that I have read and discovered is the concept that you reap what you sow. In other words, not only do I get back the level of intimacy that I put into the marriage but so does my wife. Perhaps one of the reasons (but certainly not the only reason) that there is no intimacy is that she doesn’t express it towards me. I hope and pray that some day she will get this as well but I’m not holding my breathe. I (or should I say we) have just signed up for an interesting alternative to counseling. We have only just started it but I’m going to suggest that you look into this program as well. I’m not sure if this is taboo or not but the program is called Marriage Fitness and can be found at http://www.marriagemax.com. As much as I have issues just like everyone else, I am a very, very even keeled person and so I certainly get the idea that this will take time. I am also a diehard optimist (I suppose I would have to be to have stayed in this relationship that has been on hold for so long) and I feel good that she has agreed to take this course with me. I believe that the OP has temporarily left the picture so I am going to try as hard as I can to look forward and not backwards. I only hope that my wife can do the same. Thank you so much for listening.
December 19th, 2006 at 11:13 pm
Dave,
Thanks for the advise. I will definitely check out the site. I think that it’s a great sign of commitment on her part if she is willing to do this program. I wish you the best of luck and hope that you enjoy your holidays.
December 20th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
I’ve been married 13 years and just ended an affair with a man I work with. I didn’t have sex with him, but we would make out and there was a connection with him that was truly remarkable. We talked constantly and spent alot of time together, too much! I have learned through counseling that the connection I felt with the other man is what I really want with my husband again, and we are working on it. He found out by overhearing me on the phone with a friend talking about ending the affair, the day after I had ended it. I was going to tell him after the “dust settled” at work. However, now the other man is still claiming to be in love with me, and I can’t get him to leave me alone. I refuse to quit my job though, so I’m trying to figure out what to do. I won’t cause problems for him at work either, as he wasn’t totally at fault here. I also flirted and let things get out of hand. I am recommitted to my marriage, and realize now that I have the best husband, who truly loves me. I am so angry at myself for hurting him!!!! I read the last comment above mine about Marriage Fitness, I’ve been receiving those emails and newsletters too and it sounds wonderful. I think we’ll try that program as well. His Daily Tips are amazing. I just wanted to comment here that my kind of affair is in my opinion the worst, because it robbed my family of all the attention I could have been spending on them. I can’t believe I was that selfish, stupid and gullible to that man’s words. I LOVE MY HUSBAND and will never allow another man to get close to me like that, nor do I believe in “harmless flirting” or “just friends” anymore – it is an excuse I used also!!! :(
December 20th, 2006 at 8:28 pm
Deb,
I’m curious. What made you quit with the other person, especially since you hadn’t been caught? What made you realize what you had and decide to commit to it instead of the OP? I’m so glad to hear that things are working out for you but I would say, as the offended spouse, that if it really bothers your husband that you work there, then I think that for the sake of your marriage you should look for another job. My husband ended his affair, but continued to work with her and it soon started up again. I was unaware of it, but it bothered me greatly that he saw her everyday and it prevented me from healing. Later she was fired, and even though the affair continued, at least I didn’t get pits in my stomach every time he went to work. Just a thought. Good luck!
December 20th, 2006 at 11:54 pm
Deb,
Thanks for your honesty. I truly hope that my wife will also change and believe in me again. I now know that I want and need to change but not so much for her or our relationship but for me. As I said earlier we have only just started the program so we’ll see what effect it has. It is a remarkable feeling to have a place to talk about these issues. I think that this has definately helped me realize that of the two solutions in front of us, we either work it out or we go our separate ways, either way I will become a better person. If you have any words of advise on what seemed to work for you that would be great to hear. While my wife seems to be willing to go through this program, she also seems to remain obstinate in her lack of remorse or willingness to be held accountable. I know that I cannot and will not force this issue but I simply need her to know that for me, to have any chance of closure and movement forward, I desparately need her to show me that she understands the order of magnitude of pain that she has caused.
December 21st, 2006 at 10:30 am
To Deb
Hats off to you for knowing you made a mistake and realizing it soon enough before more happened. You are so brave to come here and tell us all this. I respect you in that you are a real person to have come to this so few do realize and acknowledge their own doings. You are one in a million and you should be proud that you could look inside yourself the way you did and be honest about yourself. I think things will work out for you because of the compassion you showed to your husband and even if it doesnt for some reason, someone with compassion and a conscience like you have shown will definately be an asset to someone else. Everyone makes mistakes its in the realizing them and fixing them that shows who we truly are so be proud of yourself for that
December 21st, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Hi June, I stopped seeing him because I realized it was just infatuation, a fantasy, and that I was being very selfish getting attention from and giving attention to, this other man – purely for my own needs. I also realized that if I didn’t end it soon, I’d have to actually sleep with him – and I didn’t want to do that, I’d just been involved for the emotional closeness (what I stupidly thought was friendship) and things got out of hand, cuz that guy really knew how to get me going….(love letters, compliments etc) once I started feeling turned on by him and wondering if I was falling in love, that actually woke me up and I began to feel guilty and ashamed, though it was hard to stop seeing him. I realized that my husband and I fought so much more because of my actions and guilt, and I hoped that if I would put my focus back on him, we’d get better. And we have!!! Last night we ate out alone at a nice italian restaurant without the kids, had a glass of wine, toasted to “us”, and made out in my mini van, lol. This is all I’ve TRULY been wanting: more time alone with and attention from my husband. CLOSENESS again. Since we’ve been going to a therapist she’s been helping me with my self esteem issues and with communicating our needs better, and we’re both doing great listening and following through. Both partners must listen and DO what’s important to the other. I have found I wasn’t the only one neglected, he felt the same way. I thank God —- my husband really does love me!! and I really do love him!! I feel horrible, just icky inside, for what I did allow to happen, what I am so glad it didn’t go further. I read all these stories about emotional affairs being the worst kind, and I sadly agree. It’s been so hard to work around him, not because of feelings, but because I hurt him too, and he’s still “pining” for me. We really were great friends, until things got out of hand. I’ve had to get over losing that friendship too. I’d quit or transfer, but my position and hours are perfect, and I get along with all my coworkers. I am going to look after new years to see if another job somewhere would closely match what I have there, and if so I will gladly change jobs. I just hope that wouldn’t make my husband think I wasn’t “strong” enough to work around that man, that I still had feelings??
December 21st, 2006 at 5:33 pm
Thanks Deb for the reply. I admire your convictions & commitment. I think if you positioned it correctly, your husband would not think you were weak. I know if my husband had fired her (she was one of his employees), and told me it was b/c he really loved me and didn’t want it to be an issue of hurt for me, then I would have greatly respected him for it. Instead, I had to wait 8 months until I accidently discovered that it was continuing & then his business partner fired her and almost left the company. Ah, well. At least she’s not at work anymore and I didn’t have to see her at this year’s company Christmas party. I wish you all the best!
December 27th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
I found out about my husband’s affair last April, and I believed him when he said it had all finished. But he wouldn’t kiss me or put his arms around me or try and make it up to me. I did all the wrong things in the book – then he said he wanted a divorce and now he’s trying to raise the money to buy me out of the house. Every time he’s nice to me he drops a bombshell. On my 50th birthday he was very nice (no present, only a card, but I thought it’s a start) then he said he had a loan from the bank and would I accept it as he had to know that week. Now his solicitor says it has to be sorted out in court (or so he says). I can’t believe a word he says and he wonders why!! He says he doesn’t love me but he wants to be my friend. I try to charge neutral but it is very difficult.
December 27th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
Well we had the best Christmas ever, because I appreciate my husband in ways I never truly did before, even after all our years of marriage. I guess he became like wallpaper, there but barely noticed or appreciated. But now I feel completely different. I am getting to know him all over again (and he is me also) and our communication has never ever been better. I have spent a good deal of time looking at our family albums and home videos, remembering all our wonderful times, and looking forward to many more. Why on earth did I ever think for a split second that I could ever find better than what I already have? Why did I let another man get close to me emotionally when I had a great listener, my best friend, right here? I have so many questions about my selfishness and stupidity, and my therapist is trying to help me figure these things out, and rebuild our foundation and trust. My husband and I have already survived through so much – we even made it through the loss of a child, a stillborn, and went on to have another – we can and will make it through this. I am learning to truly appreciate him again, and how to show him my love. I’m learning that showing him my love more, is bringing out the good in him, and inspires him to show me more love and attention, which is what I want :) Happy New Year everyone! Just a couple months ago my marriage seemed doomed and now we are making happy new year plans and vacation plans for next year! Praise God for my forgiving, understanding, loving hubby, who I will never hurt again. Love, Deb
January 1st, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Deb, so glas things are going well for you and so glad you realized what you had b/f it was too late. Best of luck to you!
Karen, so sorry for what you’re going through. A lot of guys are nice to their wives when they’re having an affair b/c they are acting and it is only temporary. He can be nice for a few hours b/c later he’ll be with her. It’s not real and it’s not sincere. It’s pathetic and it’s dishonest. Trust your gut. If he really loved you, he would be trying and I bet if you checked, you’d find he’s still involved. He says he wants to be your friend b/c he’s trying to let you down easy and trying to get out of the marriage. I think you’re in for one heck of a roller coaster ride. My husband was like that summer of 2005. Denied involvement w/anyone else though I had my suspicions. Wanted to be friends, etc. but go on his own way. It was tough. But I rode it out. Unfortunately I’m not sure if the ride is over. Time will tell. Be strong for yourself and take care of you. Don’t turn into a doormat. You deserve better and if he’s not going to treat you right and be faithful then he doesn’t deserve you. Best of luck!
March 5th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
It has been very interesting reading all the cautionary tales of the damage an “emotional affair” can do to a marriage. I’m a man who has yearned for an emotional affair or a physical one and yet I have always resisted my desires for either. My wife is totally uninterested in me (or any other man) sexually and our marriage has so many taboo areas that can’t be discussed emotional intimacy is tepid at best. I have been celibate for over five years and have not been kissed by her in a sexual way for more than 15 years. I dream of kissing. I do not have close male friends (I have many friendships withboth men and women but none are close. Only two women are even aware of the state of my marriage and both are long-term friends who are too honest and strong to engage in even an emotional affair – which is probably why I can at least confide in them once or twice a year. I still love my wife. I don’t think she loves me but she still likes me most of the time. We have children I love and would never want to hurt. I have no solutions.
March 10th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
Deb: Was glad to read your post,as my husband of 29 years, says he was seeing someone, but no sex was involved, she was 20 years younger and he knew her through business. He met her at chamber meetings and town meetings and she began calling his cell phone and he is very easy to talk too and has a well loved personality and everyone is drawn to him. Anyway she began calling him everyday to talk about her work and fill him in on town business and stuff he loved to hear about, then she began to compliment him on how he dressed and how handsome he was and fun to be around, then the phone calls become more each day. She then began to set up meetings where just him and her were and finally one day she kissed him and told him she had wanted to do that for so long. He decided not to tell me about it, and she kept up with the phone calls but this time asked him if he would like to meet her somewhere alone. So they found a spot in the woods and she said in his car and they talked he says for about 1 or more twice a week. He says she tried to make it go further and asked him for sex but he refused, this went on for 7 months, then he finally came and told me about it. Because her husband found an email she had written him. What do you think about all this. Thanks
March 23rd, 2007 at 2:50 pm
I’ve read all of these and it has been enlightening. After having moved to a new city, leaving behind all friends, family and connections, all of my new contacts in the new city being through my husband, I became isolated and very intensely alone. I work at home at a job that is unsatisfying and yet all this time, about six years after we moved here, I thought I was doing ok. Talk about denial. I had one affair which was very brief and very humiliating for me. I was basically abused by the guy, which caused it to end and sent me into a deep depression last summer. After that, I began to get involved in a message board online, met someone who pursued me…this time I thought, no way am I ever going to do that again – so I was very upfront with the guy about being married and all of that, and yet somehow in the end we ended up having an emotional affair that lasted about six weeks. It ended because my spouse was annoyed by my being online a lot, so he went into my e mail account and discovered all. A lot of arguing and terrible things happened afterwards, and my online guy basically cut it off with me and my husband is now divorcing me.
It has left me in a position of being in this city alone, no support or meaningful friendships, and has left me feeling utterly rejected and in terrible, terrible pain. I brought it on all myself and of course I am accountable for my actions. At the same time, I feel angry that my husband has never felt empathy towards me for being so alone and has never even worried so much about how I was doing during the day. I am also surprised at my own denial…it must be a very powerful thing. I had no idea how unhappy I was until now.
So, to those who are either involved in an affair, you might want to take a look at what your life would be like if the other person suddenly left. What would be left is what…boredom, a void, emotional pain of some sort? Perhaps if you concentrate on fixing those things rather than self medicate by having an affair, you might not need to have an affair in the first place.
I wish I had known that earlier. Now I am deeply alone and deeply unhappy and have lost both guys. All I ever really wanted was to feel that someone truly and honestly loved me for who I am…and most importantly, to be able to give that love back.
Peace and good luck to all.
-confused.
June 18th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
[...] A friend sent me this URL that I think is well worth a look, especially the comments. http://infidelity-help.com/blog/2006/11/05/emotional-infidelity-lover-or-just-friends/ [...]
July 14th, 2007 at 10:30 am
I have a question which I would like to put at the top of a chain but perhaps that is not how this site works. The question.
My wife went to the Carribean. Flirted at the bar Mon night with someone she’d never met before, emotionally very sexual but just a little touch. Tues they went for a long romantic walk on a moonlit beach, lots of hugging, kissing, French kissing, all initiated by her, including the walk itself. It was described in her diary as totally awesome, a WOW kind of night. Was invited to his room but she declined but was very pleased with the invite. Wed night went to his room about 2-4 AM but mostly just talk. Th in his room again after midnight and she laid on his bed and there was lots of petting including her genitals. She then came to her senses and left.
My question is what do you call this? Is it an affair or not?
CVB
July 16th, 2007 at 11:54 pm
Cathy
Having just come thru a situation where my wife repeatedly underplayed, a lot, what had happened in her affair (see letter above – she repeatedly insisted they had only briefly held hands and hugged, only a diary uncovered the truth), I would assume he is lying. You just do not spend all that time in a car and just talk, the pay off is not that great. I would confront him and say this coming weekend he either tells you the whole truth and nothing but or he leaves. Preface it with your love, support, you will work it thru whatever happened, but also that radical honesty is absolutely essential to saving your marriage. Tell him he has one chance. If he confesses to any thing less than serious petting he is lying, in my opinion.
CVB
November 25th, 2007 at 9:55 am
I also discovered that my husband has been lying to me everytime I ask him about names in his phonebook. Then I accidentally opened his cell phone and read amorous messages. I asked him from whom the messages came from but he lied again only to find out that the two numbers in his phonebook were from my co-teacher who was also his classmate in college. Then he started hiding his cellphones but I would take it out when he was already asleep. Although his cellphone would have empty received and sent messages, yet when he was drunk,he couldn’t erase them. My world sunk when I found out that the calls were very lengthy and he would lie again. I confronted both of them and he promised never to do it again. The once brave “friend” behaved like a tame dog. It took several months before it got out of his system. I do not have a very intuitive feeling now but sometimes the hatred for both of them still lingers. It seems that when trust has been abused, it is difficult to trust again. Sometimes I feel that I don’t love my husband anymore. I just need his company.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:33 am
I was involded in an “emotional” affair that did turn physical. My now ex-husband and I were married for 4 years before I stared the affair. The other man was someone my husband was good friends with but I didn’t really know all that well. My husband and I soon started hanging out with the other man quite often and I then in turn got to know the other man very well. We soon became friends…we would talk on the phone mostly..at least for the first few months…then it turned to us meeting each other behind my ex-husbands back..usually to talk. He was going through some tough times with his then wife. I guess to me at the time it seemed innocent..but looking back on it these type of affairs seem to happen so gradually that it’s almost hard to read or see any signs of it as it progresses. Of course not all emotional affairs turn physical, but they can be just as damaging. To this day I’m not sure why I did what I did..maybe I was insecure..maybe I was bored. I don’t really know.
August 20th, 2009 at 1:32 am
My fiance/boyfriend had multiple emotional affairs with the women he worked with – all married teachers in the Puyallup and Tacoma, WA area! One became physical with a married teacher 3 days after one of our many breakups. They were “friends” for months, i never knew about her, but she knew about me. They confided with one another and slowly he pulled away. He denies to this day it was cheating. Then he had another emotional affair with a woman he dated and then she did marry someone else. They flirted and I caught them flirting sexually one day. I nearly threwup. As a single male teacher in a dominant female environment, he had his pick. He likes the chase, the feeling of flirting and then turns to them for that high instead of his partner (me). And then he says the relationship isn’t working or we are not compatible. Duh! He would sneak off and see other women and have drinks with them after work and never tell me or invite me. One, with whom he spent a weekend with at a Jazz Festival in Ellensburg, he used to date for 9 months and they remained “friends”. He would lie to me where he was and say that I was jealous when i would ask or get upset that he never told me beforehand or invited. “Friends” were kept in a silo and I never met one until 2 years into our relationship. That is because they were all ex-girlfriends. He has no authentic relationships with a female or male. I also caught him talking and seeing another married teacher friend whose husband was in Iraq. He never told her he was engaged. He never told her he had a girlfriend and when he talked about what he did that weekend with his son, me and my son was omitted from the conversation. Pretty sad. Then he lied to me about going out one day. He met her for lunch, got drunk, spent 4 hours with her and NEVER mentioned me! And he says he never cheated on me. He always keeps ex’s on the side when he has no one else to turn to.
Obviously he is very insecure, emotionally unavailable, a destructive man. He also suffers from chronic discontent/major depression, he’s a winner!